Will Honda have the RCV sorted for next year?

Arrabbiata1 said:

Completely disagree about 2005. 2012 yes, but they were screwed by the late change to the Bridgestone front carcass - so the bike never reached its potential until Sachsenring.

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I think the Yamaha was better from 05-10, Honda 11-12 but like you said were ...... on the last minute tire change in 12. Yamaha in 2013, Honda 2014, Yamaha 2015-2016.
That 9 out of the last 12 years Yamaha has had the better bike.

povol said:

I think the Yamaha was better from 05-10, Honda 11-12 but like you said were ...... on the last minute tire change in 12. Yamaha in 2013, Honda 2014, Yamaha 2015-2016.
That 9 out of the last 12 years Yamaha has had the better bike.

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In my opinion, not in 2006 - but only because, similar to Honda in 2015, they took a disastrously wrong turn with the chassis development.

The earlier suggestion that the RCV was superior to the M1 in 2005 is frankly laughable.

Arrabbiata1 said:

In my opinion, not in 2006 - but only because, similar to Honda in 2015, they took a disastrously wrong turn with the chassis development.

The earlier suggestion that the RCV was superior to the M1 in 2005 is frankly laughable.

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Wasnt 2006 the year Rossi had some tire issues that really cost him, not the bike. Hayden was forced to test the 2007 Pedrocycle parts in 2006 so its hard to say what kind of bike they had. It sucked hard the second half of the season

povol said:

Wasnt 2006 the year Rossi had some tire issues that really cost him, not the bike. Hayden was forced to test the 2007 Pedrocycle parts in 2006 so its hard to say what kind of bike they had. It sucked hard the second half of the season

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I'd say the EVO version of the RCV was the greatest of them all and certainly the rarest. The internals that Hayden was saddled with testing did not encumber him as much as the standard HRC diaphragm clutch that he elected to run which so hampered his starts so much (instead of the self-servo coil spring version which he didn't like the feel of). Remember, the EVO bike was used solely by Nicky - there were only three, two for the rider and one for testing. The bike was a complete overhaul of the RCV aiming to provide a shorter wheel base with a longer swinging arm. The objective was to emulate the strengths of the 2005 M1 - mass centralisation -in so doing aiding corner entry and stability under braking that Rossi had exploited to devastating effect. They had to completely redesign the engine by shortening the motor and building a new chassis and bodywork around it. It then got a further major upgrade to the swinging arm and a repositioned shock. Spotted this straight away at Donington when they rolled the bike out and the fifth cylinders pipe had to exit obliquely to accommodate the changes.









Here's one I took of the 2006 M1 - also at Doni.



Yes, this was the year that Elias proved to be as much as a thorn in Rossi's side as the Michelins. From the first race however, the M1 was dogged by chatter. Changes had been made to chassis rigidity but the motor - although a bigger bore and shorter stroke I think, was largely the same. I guess they were concentrating development on the 800cc formula. Because Michelin had rolled out a wider tyre in a bid to increase grip, they tipped the finely balanced M1 into a tailspin. So I guess, in hindsight, I'm wrong to say that Yamaha took a wrong turn on chassis development - when in fact an otherwise positive refinement to increase feel and response was thrown into turmoil by the new profile of the rubber. Rossi's valiant attempts to ride through this very probably resulted in the chunking of the front at Shanghai. As I recall they retrieved one of the 2005 test bikes out of an Italian museum and cut it and modified it to fit the new short stroke motor. The 06 M1 was also substantially down on power on the RCV and the valve gear failure at Le Mans was very probably a product of the raising the rev limit.

Awesome pictures and info as usual Arrab.

JPSLotus said:

Awesome pictures and info as usual Arrab.

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Thanks JPS. They started Nicky's No.1 bike up when I took those - I think the 2006 RCV was one of the the loudest Hondas I've ever heard from the modern era. As I recall, Stoner's LCR made your ears bleed.

Arrabbiata1 said:

Thanks JPS. They started Nicky's No.1 bike up when I took those - I think the 2006 RCV was one of the the loudest Hondas I've ever heard from the modern era. As I recall, Stoner's LCR made your ears bleed.

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Was that loudness a product of the V5 with the exhaust configuration they were running? Or had they simply rung out the rev limit as high as it was going to go with the V5 engine?

BTW, I don't know if you have ever noticed this, I happened to look at the Honda website at their very brief blurbs on the RC211V for each year of it's running. They never mention Rossi's name period. Nicky Hayden is mentioned however.

Honda Worldwide | MotoGP | The secrets behind the RC-V Series | RC-V Series History

Question, when they switched to the 800cc engines, why did they did they not try to make an 800cc version of the V5? Or did the smaller engine eliminate the issues which brought about the V5 originally?

povol said:

I think the Yamaha was better from 05-10, Honda 11-12 but like you said were ...... on the last minute tire change in 12. Yamaha in 2013, Honda 2014, Yamaha 2015-2016.
That 9 out of the last 12 years Yamaha has had the better bike.

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It was a a last minute change to the weight limit on the bike that ...... the 2012 bike which had been so dominant in testing, leading to chatter problems in the early season races. They changed the tyre, withdrawing Stoner's preferred "hard" tyre, for good measure during the season.

JPSLotus said:

Was that loudness a product of the V5 with the exhaust configuration they were running? Or had they simply rung out the rev limit as high as it was going to go with the V5 engine?

BTW, I don't know if you have ever noticed this, I happened to look at the Honda website at their very brief blurbs on the RC211V for each year of it's running. They never mention Rossi's name period. Nicky Hayden is mentioned however.

Honda Worldwide | MotoGP | The secrets behind the RC-V Series | RC-V Series History

Question, when they switched to the 800cc engines, why did they did they not try to make an 800cc version of the V5? Or did the smaller engine eliminate the issues which brought about the V5 originally?

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Spurned ..... behaviour.

JPSLotus said:

Question, when they switched to the 800cc engines, why did they did they not try to make an 800cc version of the V5? Or did the smaller engine eliminate the issues which brought about the V5 originally?

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Completely different philosophy sacrificing raw power for nimble handling. As I recall, HRC had even contemplated building a triple. Of course the corner speed of the 800s was always going to be immense but nobody had anticipated the warp speed of the Ducati in a straight line.

Daniboy said:

Spurned ..... behaviour.

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Nah, Honda had good reason to be upset.

Arrabbiata1 said:

Completely different philosophy sacrificing raw power for nimble handling. As I recall, HRC had even contemplated building a triple. Of course the corner speed of the 800s was always going to be immense but nobody had anticipated the warp speed of the Ducati in a straight line.

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I'm watching Losail 2007, and the way the 800cc Ducati pulled down that main straight compared to the Yamaha is just breathtaking. It's particularly humorous since Nick Harris is saying how Rossi can pass Stoner any time he wishes and he is putting the pressure on, then a couple of corners later the Ducati Rocketshop takes off. It looks like the M1 hits a brick wall.

JPSLotus said:

I'm watching Losail 2007, and the way the 800cc Ducati pulled down that main straight compared to the Yamaha is just breathtaking. It's particularly humorous since Nick Harris is saying how Rossi can pass Stoner any time he wishes and he is putting the pressure on, then a couple of corners later the Ducati Rocketshop takes off. It looks like the M1 hits a brick wall.

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That race at Qatar and the debut of the 800cc Ducati is one of the most amusing things I've ever seen in this sport. (Actually, also up there was Gabor Talmacsi taking Mika Kalio on the line when he was supposed to be riding shotgun - which was also Losail). Apparently there were some very shell shocked HRC personnel meandering around the paddock immediately afterwards including an ashen faced Kazuhiko Yamano and that geezer that always wore the aviators was out back of the garage drawing pensively on a cigarette.

What is often overlooked though is that the thing was a handful in the turn - which was afterall the main strength of the 800cc formula. Some of the adaptive techniques that Stoner introduced to make up the lost time are astonishing to learn. He was similarly modifying his riding on the 990 using a range of unorthodox methods given the disadvantages plaguing the satellite teams and the cast off rubber.

Arrabbiata1 said:

Thanks JPS. They started Nicky's No.1 bike up when I took those - I think the 2006 RCV was one of the the loudest Hondas I've ever heard from the modern era. As I recall, Stoner's LCR made your ears bleed.

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How similar was the sound to the 2002 iteration? Honda demonstration run video.



BTW, the scroll at the bottom mentions Honda winning 14 out of 16 races in 2002....no mention of Rossi.

JPSLotus said:

Was that loudness a product of the V5 with the exhaust configuration they were running? Or had they simply rung out the rev limit as high as it was going to go with the V5 engine?

BTW, I don't know if you have ever noticed this, I happened to look at the Honda website at their very brief blurbs on the RC211V for each year of it's running. They never mention Rossi's name period. Nicky Hayden is mentioned however.

Honda Worldwide | MotoGP | The secrets behind the RC-V Series | RC-V Series History

Question, when they switched to the 800cc engines, why did they did they not try to make an 800cc version of the V5? Or did the smaller engine eliminate the issues which brought about the V5 originally?

Click to expand...

Interesting series of videos from Honda engineers about the development of the initial 4 strokes for MotoGP and their RCV. Subtitled

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2p2yBKMKF4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYOm_J6h8yM