Well the question is in the thread name. Will Honda have the RCV fully sorted for next year? Will they make a big leap forward during the off season or will they continue to make little improvements as they have been doing since the start of the year?
Joined Nov 2015
2K Posts | 582+
A caravan on an island
Can't believe they'd balls it up 3 years on the run so I think they are going to have to make a big change in how the rcv drives. I believe Dani and Marc were testing a new motor with counter rotating balance shafts at Misano so that sounds like bigger changes are in the air.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Joined Nov 2015
2K Posts | 582+
A caravan on an island
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
If everyone is to be believed at HRC, it's an electronics issue. Nakamoto said there's nothing wrong with the revised engine.
But there was a bit Pedrosa said that goes against that, where he said:
I see little reason why he would lie about such a thing. So that would mean even with their electronics, they were not able to get to the bottom of the problems.
This might go back to the chassis as well. But without knowing what problems are related to the chassis, and which are related to the electronics, it's tough to make any sort of proclamation about what the 2017 bike will be. But, HRC has been here in the past with a difficult bike, so if anyone can sort it out, it would be Honda. Just without in-season engine development, it's a tall order to do. I hate to say it, but I'm starting to wonder if it's going to take a formula change and a subsequent RC214V to sort the issues out.
But there was a bit Pedrosa said that goes against that, where he said:
I see little reason why he would lie about such a thing. So that would mean even with their electronics, they were not able to get to the bottom of the problems.
This might go back to the chassis as well. But without knowing what problems are related to the chassis, and which are related to the electronics, it's tough to make any sort of proclamation about what the 2017 bike will be. But, HRC has been here in the past with a difficult bike, so if anyone can sort it out, it would be Honda. Just without in-season engine development, it's a tall order to do. I hate to say it, but I'm starting to wonder if it's going to take a formula change and a subsequent RC214V to sort the issues out.
For me the bike is almost sorted for Marquez anyway. It has the best front end of them all, and Marquez has the best front end feel.
The only issue is the electronics for rear drive, they won't get that wrong for much longer
The only issue is the electronics for rear drive, they won't get that wrong for much longer
Joined Aug 2013
163 Posts | 33+
Northants UK
Tricky situation for Honda, as people say its certain they will get it right in the end, but how long it will take remains to be seen.
I wonder how much direction they take from each rider, with MM being the rider most likely to bring home the goods, it makes sense to follow how he wants things, but the years when the bike was developed around Pedrosa's input is when it was strongest in the recent past. Also others could ride to better results (generally, Im aware of recent results contradicting this statement), so maybe following Dani's direction a bit more would be good too.
Also they ...... up by not taking advantage of probably the best test rider they could have wished for and then let him feel unhappy enough to defect to Ducati, Derp!
Anyway I can see the Honda being closer to the Yams next year, and hopefully not just the 93 bike can mix it at the front regularly, but I think it will take a bit longer for them to claim the bragging right's for best bike.
I wonder how much direction they take from each rider, with MM being the rider most likely to bring home the goods, it makes sense to follow how he wants things, but the years when the bike was developed around Pedrosa's input is when it was strongest in the recent past. Also others could ride to better results (generally, Im aware of recent results contradicting this statement), so maybe following Dani's direction a bit more would be good too.
Also they ...... up by not taking advantage of probably the best test rider they could have wished for and then let him feel unhappy enough to defect to Ducati, Derp!
Anyway I can see the Honda being closer to the Yams next year, and hopefully not just the 93 bike can mix it at the front regularly, but I think it will take a bit longer for them to claim the bragging right's for best bike.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
MM when asked about the 2017 engine today offered this...
He says he was happy so I wonder if HRC may have finally taken a huge step forward with bringing the engine under control without losing much power. If this is the case, 2017 could see him demolish the field like he did in 2014.
He says he was happy so I wonder if HRC may have finally taken a huge step forward with bringing the engine under control without losing much power. If this is the case, 2017 could see him demolish the field like he did in 2014.
An interesting comment for sure. He says it was level with the current engine so I expect the engine will be better next year. And I agree give him a great bike and he will walk away with title number 3 or 4.
Depends on how we measure this. Does anything short of repeat of 2014 mean Honda didn't sort it out?
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
No, it's about the ease of which winning comes without riding on the knife's edge all the time.
But when Honda does get everything correct with the bike so that a rider can use the tool to maximum effectiveness, you get the following bikes from the 4-stroke era:
2002 RC211V
2003 RC211V
2011 RC212V
2014 RC213V
All of those bikes were worldbeaters.
Joined Sep 2016
894 Posts | 557+
Queensland Australia
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
No, 2014 is what happens when you put Marquez on a superior bike to the Yamaha, and even if they do field a superior bike for him, we probably wont see another 10 race win streak in our life time.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Makes you wonder how Honda got caught with their pants down two years in a row with an engine package that neither rider approved of , with no time to change. Seems like i remember 2015 was a case of the engine feeling fine at one track but when they rolled it out at another for a test it was a disaster and to late to change so they were stuck with a package that only liked a couple of tracks on the circuit. I guess their over confidence in being able to master the electronics caught them out this year
Joined Sep 2016
894 Posts | 557+
Queensland Australia
The Honda bike depended heavily on the clever electronics to make the bike work to its potential, I remember Honda's opposition to the Control ECU was so strong that there was rumours and speculation that they threatened to pull out of the series.
They would have won in 2015 if they listened to MM and switched back to the 2014 chassis earlier. Doohan was spot on when he said he see's Honda creeping back into their old ways of putting the bike and the technology before the riders and their needs.
Well yeah, Honda was also the best bike in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2012 and 2013. I guess I just have a problem with this notion that unless Honda dominated, they have to have serious issues.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Completely disagree about 2005. 2012 yes, but they were screwed by the late change to the Bridgestone front carcass - so the bike never reached its potential until Sachsenring.
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