Why the ridicule of riders who are physically small?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 15 2009, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's all reletive mate. if your 10 stone in weight and are pulling 3 g'forces under breaking that would be like 30 stone pushing on you. If your like jumkie and weigh 20 stone 3g would be like 60 stone pushing on you, so its relative to the rider but taking less force on your breaks to slow the lighter rider.


Ah good point

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Jul 15 2009, 06:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dude... you talk as if it takes a world champion bodybuilder to handle one of these machines or something. These machines are built for balls not brawn.


No not a WC BD. Just someone with that all empowering "X" factor

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jul 15 2009, 01:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>pt 1. correction, he should be able to brake later etc than rossi <u>IF</u> he has the same physical strength as rossi. braking, cornering, and to a much lesser extent, accelerating all require physical oomph to do well. thats why he can pull a rocket start but cant brake as well as some. low body mass also hinders you in high speed corners where the bike wants to stand up straight and your body weight is used to keep it leant over. thats why they raise the engine up in the chassis for circuits such as phillip island.

pt 2. they are not equal, see above..



Agree.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 15 2009, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Babel, thanks for not putting me on your "ignore" button.

So your conclusion is based on the discrepancy of an "extreme talented" rider struggling in one sector of the track??? Did you consider that when you were focusing on his "struggle" to negotiate the chicane that he may have missed the set up?
I did in fact suggest that set up play an important role here didn't I? As his chicane improved his braking faltered and that's just the way it is, the best setup are a number of compromises.
Problem for Pedrosa is that he really compromises his set up one way or the other because of his small size and mass.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Are you aware that these men, though "extremely talented" are not infallible? How many times have we heard "extremely talented" riders report they had trouble negotiating a particular turn or sector of the track in interviews due to some problem or set up issue they were experiencing?
But how often are these problems so bad you you can see them with your own eyes? NOT very often.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Again, Babel, I don't know why you do it, but watching a racer/machine from the sidelines is not a reliable method for making such profound assertions. Yes, I do think one can learn allot from paying attention and focusing on the activity that happens at the track as a spectator; but I think its capricious to make such bold assessments. I do believe you are probably the type of spectator that has above average interest and perhaps also background to distinguish certain aspects of the racing action, but your evaluation leading to bold judgment of what you are seeing/hearing is lacking.

Why is it that you must make such bold assessments? I mean, really, I don't dispute for example you heard some distinguishing exhaust notes emanating from particular bikes, the part I have a problem with is your iron clad determination that you have an explanation for the anomaly. Why not just say it "seems" like something is different and this is what it "might" be; rather than saying "this is what I heard, THEREFORE, this is the undisputable reason, etc." You see the difference?

Opinions and arguments often come out as "conclusions", and it's quite often you make your own conclusions, not?

That said, I find it amusing that you consider this bold assessments. I'm not the first to suggest this, not by a million mile, and I'm not the only one here on the forum to suggest this.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>It would be a rather complicated discussion to invoke the rules of physics and how they might properly apply to such a situation. You've concluded that becasue Peders is smaller that he has more difficulty negotiating certain aspects of the activity of riding a bike, and I could just as well make the case that the less momentum experienced 'due to his smaller mass' is the reason for the advantage.
Yeah, you could but then you would be dead wrong. Your own body is not part of the bike but can effectively be used as leverage on the bike. It's of course part of the total weight but when it comes to handling the bike you constantly leverage the body to get the bike to do what you want. You use your own weight to your advantage.
In addition, to be real fast you need high accuracy and throwing all you got into an operation just doesn't cut it. There's no accuracy in that. A stronger person can do the same operation controlled and accurately- fast and soft at the same time. That's what make the best riders the best. In a few operations Pedrosa simply doesn't have the strenght/leverage needed to do things fast and soft.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Since you are into "observing" so much, tell me, what do you observe in the start of the race between Peders vs. every other rider? Have you noticed he jets out to the lead (or near it) despite his grid order? Have you noticed he has also had a superior top (or near it) speed in many cases? I'm sure we could make an arguement that its all about his particular electronics package, or perhaps his small mass too; but what's the truth?

I never said there weren't advantages with his low mass, in fact I even pointed them out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 15 2009, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That said, I find it amusing that you consider this bold assessments. I'm not the first to suggest this, not by a million mile, and I'm not the only one here on the forum to suggest this.

Babs, why are all riders starving themselves to get their weight down? Some have been quoted as saying they are right on the edge of un-healthy. They obviously see Pedrosa's midget size as an advantage as they are all immaciating themselves to lessen the gap.

A little off topic

I am also going to go out on a limb and suggest that Stoner's anemia may be due to poor nutrition added with stress. I'm sure he's getting double dosages of iron and popping stool softners as well

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 15 2009, 07:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Back to talent and balls. In the world of physics and math, Dani SHOULD be able to brake later and carry more corner speed, IF he had the talent of Rossi and the balls of Rossi.The fact that he is a weak braker comes back to talent, not physics.If all things are equal, the lighter package will accelerate faster,brake faster and corner faster, its a mathmatical certainty

Accelerate faster we agree upon. That depend on weight/power ratio.
Braking and cornering on the other hand is very different. There are in fact no physical laws that says you do that faster with less weight.
In fact the school physics clearly learned us that for a given friction the friction force will be directly proportional with the the weight. Friction enable the exact same acceleration or deceleration independent of weight. Now that's school physics, and in the old days that were way off what the rubber acted like. Hard and with little energy absorption and little flex it very easily overheated and that was due to too much energy put into it. When it overheated all beats were off. The friction coefficient went down to nothing and you crashed out. The tires of today can handle a lot more, and unless they overheat added weight actually have a few advantages.
More flex in the tire generate enough heat (see Elias) and more flex give a larger grip surface that to a certain degree contract the extra stress/heat from the added weight.
All this cary on huge IF, IF the tires don't overheat/overstress. I can't prove that overheating is not a problem, but it's been a while since bikes slided their front in straight forward braking even on road tires.