Why the ridicule of riders who are physically small?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 13 2009, 01:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You're relatively new to the forum - so you've missed a lot of earlier comments on Pedrosa -
so clearly, you don't get what it is everybody hates about him. #1 was his ....... move on
his teammate Nicky Hayden on the penultimate race in 2006 when Hayden had the championship
all wrapped up. Dani Pendejo made an incredibly dangerous and unbelivably stupid pass on Hayden and knocked him down and almost cost him the championship. Pedrosa was nowhere near to being in contention for the championship - but he made this insanely stupid pass on teammate Hayden that was so thoughtless and completely pointless because he had such a huge ....... ego and because he was like a pissy little boy who was having a tantrum over the fact that he saw himself as Honda's #1 Boy and because he resented the fact that the big stupid American was going to win the championship for the Spanish Repsol team. And afterwards he never ....... apolgized to his teammate. Instead he sulked like a little ..... He showed absolutely no sense of sportsmanship. And in turn he infuriated people all over the world. He was viewed as a nasty little .... with a Napoleon complex and only made things worse by way of his constant demands on Honda for refinements to the the bikes that only he would get in the following season - leaving his championship-winning teammate with a half-assed bike, minus most of the updates that should have been offered to the rider (Hayden) who had accomplished the most for the team. He's been a sulking little .... when interviewed and behaves in general like he's second coming of Christ. People resent the hell out of Pedrosa because he's an undeserving, spoiled brat on who Repsol has wasted millions of dollars of resources that should have been spent on developing Hayden's bike as he was the more successful rider. And always... he made everyone hate him because he demonstrated so much false pride and behaved like an ungrateful little .... with a ...... attitude. He's constantly been perceived as an undeserving little .... who made things worse by never acknowledging the superiority of his teammate for the constantly saying and doing things to undermine Hayden - something that simply isn't done to one's teammate. I used to be a photographer and Pedrosa's antics remind me of a group of gay Flamenco dancers I once spent a week shooting. They were all spiteful little ....... and would do things like putting broken glass in each others dance shoes. That's Pedrosa in a nutshell. So people naturally make fun of "The Mouse That Roared" because of his extreme hubris.
No, I'm not new, been here a long time, sometimes too busy to post, sometimes I don't waste my time in replying to ........ posts like yours based on insulting a rider. Don't bother replying you're on my ignore list so I can't read you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jul 13 2009, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you F1ers better hope that alonzo does not end up in a ferrari next season cause teo will be insufferable! :lol:he'll be in all his glory!!!!
In advance, I'm sorry I'll be spamming the F1 thread with gloating about victory and timeless glory.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Jul 13 2009, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ah ...., that won't happen....I'm praying TEO!!!
Of course you do, cause it's you beloved Kimi the one getting the boot if FA goes to Ferrari.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Jul 13 2009, 06:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Teomoloca is a girl.
Let me check my pants .... hmmmm ... ok not a girl for sure.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 14 2009, 09:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Could it simply be he had trouble negotiating the chicane, as in racecraft, as oppose to size? All riders struggle with some areas of the track, some excel at other sectors. Why did you surmise that it must be due to his size? How did you arrive at that conclusion?

What is the likelihood of a rider with extreme talent, double world championship and regular podium fighter should trouble much more at those places than mediocre riders like Canepa and Takahashi?

Isn't sightly more likely that the exact places where weight transfer and muscling the bike play their most important roles is the places where you can easiest spot the disadvantage of being of small size end low mass?
And I mean slightly as in Rossi winning the championship and not Canepa.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Jul 15 2009, 06:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No, I'm not new, been here a long time, sometimes too busy to post, sometimes I don't waste my time in replying to ........ posts like yours based on insulting a rider. Don't bother replying you're on my ignore list so I can't read you.

It's already been established here that I mixed up Teo with El Toro. But I would appreciate it someone here would copy this reply to their post so that Teo can see this reply. It was an honest if slightly embarrassing mistake.

That aside, putting me on his ignore list is a ..... move rather like an ostrich sticking his head in a hole in the ground. I hope he doesn't have me banned by the gals at the lemonade social. I made all legitimate points about Pedrosa and if Teos' nationalistic pride has him so blind that he can't see the truth of the matter - then I say tough ..... If Teo had anything worth saying in reply to my post he would take the time to say it. He can't admit that his hero is flawed and would rather stick his fingers in his ears and wear blinders rather than debate the facts. Far as I'm concerned - it's no big loss. I always thought Teo (or Tio) meant uncle but someone here said Teo is a girl. After reading Teos' reply I think he should take another gander down in his pantaloons to be sure his huevos haven't shriveled away.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 15 2009, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Putting me on his ignore list is a ..... move rather like an ostrich sticking his head in a hole in the ground. I made all legitimate points about Pedrosa and if Teos' nationalistic pride has him so blind that he can't see the truth of the matter - then I say tough ..... If Teo had anything worth saying in reply to my post he would take the time to say it. He can't admit that his hero is flawed and would rather stick his fingers in his ears and wear blinders rather than debate the facts. Far as I'm concerned - it's no big loss. I always thought Teo (or Tio) meant uncle but someone here said Teo is a girl. After reading Teos' reply I think they must be right.

You really beg for more people putting you on the ignore list, don't you?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 15 2009, 08:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You really beg for more people putting you on the ignore list, don't you?


Have you known me to be aggressively or unreasonably insulting to anyone here other than
Pinky and his aliases? With all the constant back-biting and insulting that goes
on between members on this forum - I find it fantastic that you would ask me
that question in response to what was (compared to other insult fests on this
forum) a relatively benign post. If everyone on this forum - who ever said
something disagreeable was laid into with such heavy-handed censuring no
one here would ever speak their mind. And I don't see that happening.

I have to say Babel that I've always seen you as being one of the more
level-headed personalities on the forum - so I'm mystified at your
over-reaction to my post.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Jul 15 2009, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. In advance, I'm sorry I'll be spamming the F1 thread with gloating about victory and timeless glory.


2. Of course you do, cause it's you beloved Kimi the one getting the boot if FA goes to Ferrari.


3. Let me check my pants .... hmmmm ... ok not a girl for sure.

1. No you won't!!!

2. nahhhh...won't happen. not a chance. you hear me?!!! not a chance!!!!

3. told yah SS56

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 15 2009, 05:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's already been established here that I mixed up Teo with El Toro. But I would appreciate it someone here would copy this reply to their post so that Teo can see this reply. It was an honest if slightly embarrassing mistake.

That aside, putting me on his ignore list is a ..... move rather like an ostrich sticking his head in a hole in the ground. I hope he doesn't have me banned by the gals at the lemonade social. I made all legitimate points about Pedrosa and if Teos' nationalistic pride has him so blind that he can't see the truth of the matter - then I say tough ..... If Teo had anything worth saying in reply to my post he would take the time to say it. He can't admit that his hero is flawed and would rather stick his fingers in his ears and wear blinders rather than debate the facts. Far as I'm concerned - it's no big loss. I always thought Teo (or Tio) meant uncle but someone here said Teo is a girl. After reading Teos' reply I think he should take another gander down in his pantaloons to be sure his huevos haven't shriveled away.

I don't think this will help, I'm pretty sure Teo has me on his "ignore" button as well.

BTW Keshav, I would worry too much about it. Your appeal to Babel might be an over-reaction as well. Just go with the flow buddy. Don't take things too heart.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Jul 15 2009, 01:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

sorry, i'm going way off topic here, will not reply anymore. may be teo can sort this dude out for calling him a chick!
Could be worse, he could have called you an ex-pat Jane

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 15 2009, 05:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What is the likelihood of a rider with extreme talent, double world championship and regular podium fighter should trouble much more at those places than mediocre riders like Canepa and Takahashi?

Babel, thanks for not putting me on your "ignore" button.

So your conclusion is based on the discrepancy of an "extreme talented" rider struggling in one sector of the track??? Did you consider that when you were focusing on his "struggle" to negotiate the chicane that he may have missed the set up? Are you aware that these men, though "extremely talented" are not infallible? How many times have we heard "extremely talented" riders report they had trouble negotiating a particular turn or sector of the track in interviews due to some problem or set up issue they were experiencing?

If I had a way to cut and paste every post-race interview, you would find that many riders report struggling with something that impeded them from attacking certain parts of the track. This, from the top finishers, where by you could guarantee they are in the "extremely talented" category, this fact would indicate that its a matter of set up rather than conditioning, physical ability or limitations.

Again, Babel, I don't know why you do it, but watching a racer/machine from the sidelines is not a reliable method for making such profound assertions. Yes, I do think one can learn allot from paying attention and focusing on the activity that happens at the track as a spectator; but I think its capricious to make such bold assessments. I do believe you are probably the type of spectator that has above average interest and perhaps also background to distinguish certain aspects of the racing action, but your evaluation leading to bold judgment of what you are seeing/hearing is lacking.

Why is it that you must make such bold assessments? I mean, really, I don't dispute for example you heard some distinguishing exhaust notes emanating from particular bikes, the part I have a problem with is your iron clad determination that you have an explanation for the anomaly. Why not just say it "seems" like something is different and this is what it "might" be; rather than saying "this is what I heard, THEREFORE, this is the undisputable reason, etc." You see the difference?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Isn't sightly more likely that the exact places where weight transfer and muscling the bike play their most important roles is the places where you can easiest spot the disadvantage of being of small size end low mass?

It would be a rather complicated discussion to invoke the rules of physics and how they might properly apply to such a situation. You've concluded that becasue Peders is smaller that he has more difficulty negotiating certain aspects of the activity of riding a bike, and I could just as well make the case that the less momentum experienced 'due to his smaller mass' is the reason for the advantage.

Since you are into "observing" so much, tell me, what do you observe in the start of the race between Peders vs. every other rider? Have you noticed he jets out to the lead (or near it) despite his grid order? Have you noticed he has also had a superior top (or near it) speed in many cases? I'm sure we could make an arguement that its all about his particular electronics package, or perhaps his small mass too; but what's the truth?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Jul 15 2009, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Could be worse, he could have called you an ex-pat Jane



i already told you i took no offense

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 15 2009, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Babel, thanks for not putting me on your "ignore" button.

So your conclusion is based on the discrepancy of an "extreme talented" rider struggling in one sector of the track??? Did you consider that when you were focusing on his "struggle" to negotiate the chicane that he may have missed the set up? Are you aware that these men, though "extremely talented" are not infallible? How many times have we heard "extremely talented" riders report they had trouble negotiating a particular turn or sector of the track in interviews due to some problem or set up issue they were experiencing?

If I had a way to cut and paste every post-race interview, you would find that many riders report struggling with something that impeded them from attacking certain parts of the track. This, from the top finishers, where by you could guarantee they are in the "extremely talented" category, this fact would indicate that its a matter of set up rather than conditioning, physical ability or limitations.

Again, Babel, I don't know why you do it, but watching a racer/machine from the sidelines is not a reliable method for making such profound assertions. Yes, I do think one can learn allot from paying attention and focusing on the activity that happens at the track as a spectator; but I think its capricious to make such bold assessments. I do believe you are probably the type of spectator that has above average interest and perhaps also background to distinguish certain aspects of the racing action, but your evaluation leading to bold judgment of what you are seeing/hearing is lacking.

Why is it that you must make such bold assessments? I mean, really, I don't dispute for example you heard some distinguishing exhaust notes emanating from particular bikes, the part I have a problem with is your iron clad determination that you have an explanation for the anomaly. Why not just say it "seems" like something is different and this is what it "might" be; rather than saying "this is what I heard, THEREFORE, this is the undisputable reason, etc." You see the difference?




It would be a rather complicated discussion to invoke the rules of physics and how they might properly apply to such a situation. You've concluded that becasue Peders is smaller that he has more difficulty negotiating certain aspects of the activity of riding a bike, and I could just as well make the case that the less momentum experienced 'due to his smaller mass' is the reason for the advantage.

Since you are into "observing" so much, tell me, what do you observe in the start of the race between Peders vs. every other rider? Have you noticed he jets out to the lead (or near it) despite his grid order? Have you noticed he has also had a superior top (or near it) speed in many cases? I'm sure we could make an arguement that its all about his particular electronics package, or perhaps his small mass too; but what's the truth?
And if you believe in science,especially the laws of physics, which i do, since pretty much every move you make is based on these simple laws,Pedrosa has an advantage in cornering,braking, acceleration and more than likely, aerodynamics. The reason i say more than likely on aerodynamics is because it is not a mathmatical certainty like the other categories.The shape of a riders body and the way he tucks all are factors but since the bike was developed around him in a wind tunnel,i would expect he would also have an advantge there also. The biggest factor though,like Jumkie said,is balls and talent when it comes to winning races.If Pedro was as talented as Rossi, and had the balls and never say die attitude of Rossi, he would never lose a race unless his bike broke

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 15 2009, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And if you believe in science,especially the laws of physics, which i do, since pretty much every move you make is based on these simple laws,Pedrosa has an advantage in cornering,braking, acceleration and more than likely, aerodynamics. The reason i say more than likely on aerodynamics is because it is not a mathmatical certainty like the other categories.The shape of a riders body and the way he tucks all are factors but since the bike was developed around him in a wind tunnel,i would expect he would also have an advantge there also. The biggest factor though,like Jumkie said,is balls and talent when it comes to winning races.If Pedro was as talented as Rossi, and had the balls and never say die attitude of Rossi, he would never lose a race unless his bike broke


You say Pedders has an advantage in braking, how so? I always thought that was one of his weakest areas

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Jul 15 2009, 06:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You say Pedders has an advantage in braking, how so? I always thought that was one of his weakest areas
He should have because its less weight to slow, but as i said. having an advantage and being able to use it a 2 different things

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Jul 15 2009, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You say Pedders has an advantage in braking, how so? I always thought that was one of his weakest areas
Back to talent and balls. In the world of physics and math, Dani SHOULD be able to brake later and carry more corner speed, IF he had the talent of Rossi and the balls of Rossi.The fact that he is a weak braker comes back to talent, not physics.If all things are equal, the lighter package will accelerate faster,brake faster and corner faster, its a mathmatical certainty

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 15 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And if you believe in science,especially the laws of physics, which i do, since pretty much every move you make is based on these simple laws,Pedrosa has an advantage in cornering,braking, acceleration and more than likely, aerodynamics. The reason i say more than likely on aerodynamics is because it is not a mathmatical certainty like the other categories.The shape of a riders body and the way he tucks all are factors but since the bike was developed around him in a wind tunnel,i would expect he would also have an advantge there also. The biggest factor though,like Jumkie said,is balls and talent when it comes to winning races.If Pedro was as talented as Rossi, and had the balls and never say die attitude of Rossi, he would never lose a race unless his bike broke

Agree. Especially with last part.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 15 2009, 01:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Danis race craft in the pack is not always world class either. so having an advantage is one thing, but knowing what to do with is is quite another.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 15 2009, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Back to talent and balls. In the world of physics and math, Dani SHOULD be able to brake later and carry more corner speed, IF he had the talent of Rossi and the balls of Rossi.The fact that he is a weak braker comes back to talent, not physics.If all things are equal, the lighter package will accelerate faster,brake faster and corner faster, its a mathmatical certainty

Right but surely breaking from 150+mph to say a 50mph corner requires great upper body strenght which he would be lacking in comparison to the other guys, because of his size.

I see what your saying he can brake faster but i think not harder which is crucial when say Stoner or whoever is trying to slip it up the inside. Would that not be more important leaving him at a disadvantage

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Jul 15 2009, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Right but surely breaking from 150+mph to say a 50mph corner requires great upper body strenght which he would be lacking in comparison to the other guys, because of his size.

I see what your saying he can brake faster but i think not harder which is crucial when say Stoner or whoever is trying to slip it up the inside. Would that not be more important leaving him at a disadvantage
It's all reletive mate. if your 10 stone in weight and are pulling 3 g'forces under breaking that would be like 30 stone pushing on you. If your like jumkie and weigh 20 stone 3g would be like 60 stone pushing on you, so its relative to the rider but taking less force on your breaks to slow the lighter rider.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Jul 15 2009, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Right but surely breaking from 150+mph to say a 50mph corner requires great upper body strenght which he would be lacking in comparison to the other guys, because of his size.

I see what your saying he can brake faster but i think not harder which is crucial when say Stoner or whoever is trying to slip it up the inside. Would that not be more important leaving him at a disadvantage

Dude... you talk as if it takes a world champion bodybuilder to handle one of these machines or something. These machines are built for balls not brawn.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 15 2009, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Back to talent and balls. In the world of physics and math, Dani SHOULD be able to brake later and carry more corner speed, IF he had the talent of Rossi and the balls of Rossi.The fact that he is a weak braker comes back to talent, not physics.<u>If all things are equal</u>, the lighter package will accelerate faster,brake faster and corner faster, its a mathmatical certainty
pt 1. correction, he should be able to brake later etc than rossi <u>IF</u> he has the same physical strength as rossi. braking, cornering, and to a much lesser extent, accelerating all require physical oomph to do well. thats why he can pull a rocket start but cant brake as well as some. low body mass also hinders you in high speed corners where the bike wants to stand up straight and your body weight is used to keep it leant over. thats why they raise the engine up in the chassis for circuits such as phillip island.

pt 2. they are not equal, see above..