What's Wrong with the Ducati?

gui22a

3557001373382835

In 2007, 2008 and 2009 it was a screamer.


 


What means VSG? 

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Vibrating Structure Gyroscope. ............. whereby a reciprocating mass can be seen as a momentary/instantaneous mass on a wheel of diameter X ( where X in an engine ( because the pistons are encased in a rigid structure ) can bee seen as a point in space ). The point being with the Duc is that it could fit the description of the front end failures ie. ......... "it just lets go for no reason" ,,,, where supposedly it was fine a few moments before, or "its the vibration" ( which really smacks of a resonating force induced from "somewhere" ............ VSG's could cause a a resonating "mystery? force which attempts to make the bike travel in a longitudinally straight line at a varied ( well dependent on the engine revs ) resonant rate ( "vibration", with occasional wacky peaks and troughs ) .......... thus when added to an already "on the edge" bike attempting to keep traction on a corner with a force at the tyre countering "traction" would suddenly find that that force was mysterious momentarily and instantaneously to much. Ergo ......... it lets go. Kinda like if you were cornering and were right on the edge of traction, and a sparrow flew into your front tyre laterally ie. its all over red rover ......


 


Oh and I maintain that this would be worsened in a big bang engine.

J4rn0

3557311373400468

No worries, they'are not going that way. Just my fancy, because I like IL4s. And a desmo IL4 would be something new, at least in motorcycles.


 


You are right about the Yam, although that was mostly in the 800cc era; with 1000cc the power handicap has become (almost) negligible, as it was with the 990s, and also the overheating problems have disappeared.


 


And maybe yes, probably nobody would care if Ducati used pneumatic valves instead of desmo in their racing engines. In races the important thing is winning, all the rest is secondary. Regularly losing with your trademark desmo V90 engine is not good publicity anyway...!

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I completely agree with you as well.  Now what Ducati should do (and I'll throw this out in the universe now since they won't respond to an application from an Italian born American such as myself, but that's another story) is build a 600cc V4 for consumers.  How many companies are doing that and how many people would love an enry level V4 bike.  I know I would.  I already have a V4 400cc.

HEISMAN

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I completely agree with you as well.  Now what Ducati should do (and I'll throw this out in the universe now since they won't respond to an application from an Italian born American such as myself, but that's another story) is build a 600cc V4 for consumers.  How many companies are doing that and how many people would love an enry level V4 bike.  I know I would.  I already have a V4 400cc.

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Honda?

Correct... I'm in the process of a rebuild right now.  Fairings and some internals were pretty messed up when I bought it.


 

Nice, Heisman.


I had an NC30 before some shitstain stole it.


But heavy, but a lot of fun. Great exhaust note.


Ran a bit hot, but was otherwise perfectly reliable.


Worst issue was the rear wheel limiting tyre choice, but minor issue.


Always coveted a RVF with it's over-the-tank intakes...

HEISMAN

3557981373483783

Correct... I'm in the process of a rebuild right now.  Fairings and some internals were pretty messed up when I bought it.


 

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Nice.  It was a relatively easy guess - not many 400cc V4s other than the RVF. If I wasn't a Honda-hater I would have had one of those over my GSXR400 Much cooler!

Thanks guys.  This was my first bike actually.  In 2000, I was researching bikes that would be good for beginners, and the RVF constantly came up as the best handling.  When I saw it for sale in Miami I jumped at the opportunity.  I almost bought a clean Kawasaki 400 before that.  For me, I just wanted a 400 regardless of brand.  I try to be non partisan when it comes to roadbikes.  Kinda like my women. 


 


Unfortunately, the a-hole who had it before me didn't take very good care of it and it's been a money pit every since.  I did just get new carbon fiber fairings for it last year which ran me 2 gand from Tyga.


 


Since we've veered off topic, you guys can feel free to follow my journey on this thread. 


 


http://www.400greybike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=36082

After firing Preziosi, Ducati new managers are still looking for a replacement. They are sending proposals to Dall'Igna (currently head engineer at Aprilia) who, I think, will politely decline. So the problem is: even if you decide to design a brand new bike, you need a chief designer, and better he's a genius considering the kind of "mission impossible" on the table. Not so easy, and of course there's nobody at Ingolstadt who fits the job description. 

Might as well go with Ascanio Rodorigo, or they should really have someone defect from Japan.  Now that would be mission impossible

HEISMAN said:

Might as well go with AscanioRodorigo, or they should really have someone defect from Japan. Now that would be mission impossible

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Hey J4rn0', did u know Heisman is looking for a motorsport related job? Hes Italian born but speaks perfect American English. U think u can use ur connections to get him a job at Ducati. Its not like they coukd do any worse if it dont work out.

If Ducati aren't listening to their riders, then that IMHO could easily be enough to explain their predicament.

Jumkie

3586361376936756

Hey J4rn0', did u know Heisman is looking for a motorsport related job? Hes Italian born but speaks perfect American English. U think u can use ur connections to get him a job at Ducati. Its not like they coukd do any worse if it dont work out.

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Actually I was going to propose you, Jum, but maybe you are not interested now that NH69 is leaving... ?

AnnoyingTwit

3586391376937000

If Ducati aren't listening to their riders, then that IMHO could easily be enough to explain their predicament. IMHO.

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Still this... It's obvious Ducati now listen to their riders, the problem is just that, they are only ears, not hands.


 


They know what to do, but they don't know how.

Japanese have honor... it's extremely unlikey to see a large profile Japanese engineer leave...  Alas, all that PM tobacco money has gone to waste... 

ScreamingBigBang

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Japanese have honor... it's extremely unlikey to see a large profile Japanese engineer leave...  Alas, all that PM tobacco money has gone to waste... 

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There is not only japs at Honda/Yamaha. 

J4rn0

3586411376937351

Actually I was going to propose you, Jum, but maybe you are not interested now that NH69 is leaving... ?

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Actually, I think he's serious.  At least I am

HEISMAN

3586951376954779

Actually, I think he's serious.  At least I am

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Excellent. So here is the preliminary question: What do you think is wrong with the Desmosedici, and what would you do about it?

The engine needs to be canted back further. The cf air box / frame could then make a comeback

J4rn0 said:

Actually I was going to propose you, Jum, but maybe you are not interested now that NH69 is leaving... ?

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Thanx but I am probably the only person on this site that does not know what is wrong with the Ducati.

I do think however a custom tire might help. Oh and yeah, they can burn in hell for pushing Nicky out, a man who has been good to them...and successful/unsuccessful as anybody not named Stoner. All the others, to a man, made public their disgust with the project except Nicky (who im sure gave them honest feedback behind closed doors. Like a professional should). Dovi still has the rest of this season, but u can see his frustration. Let him get hurt some, which evetually will happen, then his good professionalism and character will be tested.

J4rn0

3586981376955597

Excellent. So here is the preliminary question: What do you think is wrong with the Desmosedici, and what would you do about it?

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I'm no designer by trade.  I'm more familiar with operations and strategy, but from what I've been reading the front end is stll vague.


 


I would address the tune flex of the frame.  Of course Ducati outsourced their frame making to Suter, but I'm not sure how much of an information was exchanged between the two.


 


In order to address suspension geometry, weight distribution, and tune flex, I would search out the best in the field, and that would require poaching from rivals.  Just as in F1