What's Wrong with the Ducati?

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Jumkie
3587021376958502

Thanx but I am probably the only person on this site that does not know what is wrong with the Ducati. I do think however a custom tire might help. Oh and yeah, they can burn in hell for pushing Nicky out, a man who has been good to them...and successful/unsuccessful as anybody not named Stoner. All the others, to a man, made public their disgust with the project except Nicky (who im sure gave them honest feedback behind closed doors. Like a professional should). Dovi still has the rest of this season, but u can see his frustration. Let him get hurt some, which evetually will happen, then his good professionalism and character will be tested.
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About Nicky I'm with you Jum. That's a shame and a useless move. What do they think Crutch will do that Capirossi, Melandri, Hayden, Rossi and Dovi couldn't? Still trying to find a rider who can do what Stoner did? That's so much wishful thinking. But now, I don't think even Stoner could win on the Ducati given the quantum leaps by the competition, tire "evolution" etc.   
 
gui22a
3586541376941113

There is not only japs at Honda/Yamaha. 
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Definitely. Even the famous two programmers "stolen" by Honda from Yamaha are not Japanese (if I remember well at least one of them is Italian, originally from Ducati...!). The irony of it: Ducati has not been able to retain the human resources that made the 2007 title possible: Stoner first, then Gabarrini and his team (a team that is going to win a third title now), a couple of key engineers that are now working at Honda and Yamaha, and even team manager Suppo; finally, to complete the self destruction, the new management fired a man like Preziosi. And now desperately court Dall'Igna who is probably not going to leave Aprilia, where he's a happy man.


Reconstruction will take a lot of time and money, and meanwhile the Tobacconist may leave too.
 
clarkjw
3587011376958500

The engine needs to be canted back further. The cf air box / frame could then make a comeback
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wouldn't that just result in more understeer?
 
J4rn0
3587461376984468

Definitely. Even the famous two programmers "stolen" by Honda from Yamaha are not Japanese (if I remember well at least one of them is Italian, originally from Ducati...!). The irony of it: Ducati has not been able to retain the human resources that made the 2007 title possible: Stoner first, then Gabarrini and his team (a team that is going to win a third title now), a couple of key engineers that are now working at Honda and Yamaha, and even team manager Suppo; finally, to complete the self destruction, the new management fired a man like Preziosi. And now desperately court Dall'Igna who is probably not going to leave Aprilia, where he's a happy man.


Reconstruction will take a lot of time and money, and meanwhile the Tobacconist may leave too.
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and thinking Dall'Igna can help much... LoL.. this poor guy has zero experience in ultra high level competition. What does he could do? It's better Luigi stays where he is now.


 


Audi sometimes act much like a bunch of amateurs. They have just arrived and fired the guy behind the bike since 2003, probably because of a couple of engineers claiming Preziosi was too hard to swallow. And now what these guys (the sore engineers) have made for the bike? Nothing.


 


Actually Preziosi was the most open minded guy at Ducati, the most capable to put back Ducati in the winning bandwagon. Firing him was a hell of a mistake. I would instead fire the sore engineers and desperately entice talent from competition with a good bag of money. 
 
gui22a
3587831377014364

and thinking Dall'Igna can help much... LoL.. this poor guy has zero experience in ultra high level competition. What does he could do? It's better Luigi stays where he is now.


 


Audi sometimes act much like a bunch of amateurs. They have just arrived and fired the guy behind the bike since 2003, probably because of a couple of engineers claiming Preziosi was too hard to swallow. And now what these guys (the sore engineers) have made for the bike? Nothing.


 


Actually Preziosi was the most open minded guy at Ducati, the most capable to put back Ducati in the winning bandwagon. Firing him was a hell of a mistake. I would instead fire the sore engineers and desperately entice talent from competition with a good bag of money. 
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Yes he was the man behind the project sinse 2003 and look where it went, that one championship and the wins were down pretty much to one thing Stoner, he would have done the same on the Kawasaki or Suzuki but the Japs would have listened and grown, Preziosi  also got the so called dream team and still went backwards, any way you cut it he failed.
 
J4rn0
3587431376983501

About Nicky I'm with you Jum. That's a shame and a useless move. What do they think Crutch will do that Capirossi, Melandri, Hayden, Rossi and Dovi couldn't? Still trying to find a rider who can do what Stoner did? That's so much wishful thinking. But now, I don't think even Stoner could win on the Ducati given the quantum leaps by the competition, tire "evolution" etc.   
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Thats just it, until you try someone different, you dont know.  Im a Nicky fan, but a realist. You never know when you are going to catch lightening in a bottle like they did with Stoner. One thing we do know, none of the riders listed above are the answer. Hayden got more years in with Ducati than the others because of his likeability and professionalism, plus he got to pad his nest egg with factory money. Hopefully he will come out   the dark side  of the career killer mentally and physically intact.
 
thedeal
3587851377015110

Yes he was the man behind the project sinse 2003 and look where it went, that one championship and the wins were down pretty much to one thing Stoner, he would have done the same on the Kawasaki or Suzuki but the Japs would have listened and grown, Preziosi  also got the so called dream team and still went backwards, any way you cut it he failed.
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Please take a read in my post here 


 


http://powerslide.net/forum/index.php?/topic/15438-audis-first-error/?p=358794
 
I ride a 72 deg twin (KTM and Buell do this). It's the best handling bike I've ever ridden. The cyls are perfectly balanced over the crank. If it were 90deg, I'd need an underslung swing arm and a different radiator. Probably a new airbox and fuel tank, but it could be mass centralized.


Honda knows wtf they are doing. They mass centralize. Duc could learn a thing
 
So why is the honda 90º and wtf would provoking even more understeer do the bike any good?

Also I suspect our road bikes got .... all to do with gp chassis design ;)
 
maybe we are asking the wrong question, perhaps the question should be: Is there anything right with the Ducati?  
 
Hollywood
3588051377020077

maybe we are asking the wrong question, perhaps the question should be: Is there anything right with the Ducati?  
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I liked that so much that I re-posted it  :)
 
Hollywood
3588051377020077

maybe we are asking the wrong question, perhaps the question should be: Is there anything right with the Ducati?  
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Excellent engine power, good traction (some say too good), seamless gearbox, stability on the brakes (as long as the bike stays upright), great handling on the wet.
 
J4rn0
3588181377024435

Excellent engine power, good traction (some say too good), seamless gearbox, stability on the brakes (as long as the bike stays upright), great handling on the wet.
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that would explain a lot if that was the case when stoner was still riding it,given what we know of when and how much he likes to get on the power
 
cliché guevara
3588031377019233

So why is the honda 90º and wtf would provoking even more understeer do the bike any good?

Also I suspect our rode bikes got .... all to do with gp chassis design ;)
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The problem is not 72° or 90°, what matters is all those geometry key points of the bike that must be right and are the secret chassis recipe of a manufacturer: if a certain engine architecture allows you to keep your geometry (the one you know that works) precisely, then it's not a problem. 


 


<span style="font-size:14px;Motorcycle engineers know for instance that when the distance between the crankshaft axis and the front wheel axis is too long, understeer will manifest. <span style="font-size:14px;Something like that. So maybe Ducati engineers have rotated the engine backwards to try and make that distance shorter... But there are many many points in a bike, and you cannot move two without affecting all others, and maybe you fix two and upset four others -- it's not so easy... And yes, GP is very unforgiving.  :)


 


Honda's V4 engine is much more compact than Ducati's; Ducati have already made their own smaller since they switched to the aluminum chassis, but it's not enough to be able to replicate Honda's geometries, apparently.
 
cliché guevara
3588241377026407

that would explain a lot if that was the case when stoner was still riding it,given what we know of when and how much he likes to get on the power
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Yes. <span style="font-size:14px;And loads of traction will create more understeer... now figure what Stoner was doing!
 
Powersliding from turn in & using opposite lock to counter the oversteer. A vague front end only becomes worse the more pressure you put it under, but by putting the weight transfer onto the rear, you have taken all the pressure of the front tire. The front tire was never heavily loaded during cornering with Stoner.This is why he was the sultan of slide.


 


I have no idea why the bike behaves like this, but I think this is the way Stoner rode it & why his dirt track background was so important to his success.
 
gui22a
3587831377014364

and thinking Dall'Igna can help much... LoL.. this poor guy has <u>zero experience in ultra high level competition</u>. What does he could do? It's better Luigi stays where he is now.


 


Audi sometimes act much like a bunch of amateurs. They have just arrived and fired the guy behind the bike since 2003, probably because of a couple of engineers claiming Preziosi was too hard to swallow. And now what these guys (the sore engineers) have made for the bike? Nothing.


 


Actually Preziosi was the most open minded guy at Ducati, the most capable to put back Ducati in the winning bandwagon. Firing him was a hell of a mistake. I would instead fire the sore engineers and desperately entice talent from competition with a good bag of money. 
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wat?
 
You said "ultra high level competition" not MotoGP.


So let's start with the first bit, Gigi was technical head of Aprilia Racing when it was laying waste to the field in 125/250.


He was technical head of Aprilia Racing when it introduced the RSV4 and won SBK a couple of times.


 


I am not suggesting Gigi wanders over to Ducati (not that they like him there very much, from what I know), but to suggest he doesn't have a clue about success in top level competition is laughable.


 


As for 8th or 10th place....umm, bit worrisome that those 8th places have seen "Gigi's" ART finish in front of Factory Ducatis...


 


Needs to get his eyebrows sorted out, though.
 
gui22a
3588571377046899

what what?


 


How much bikes built by Gigi have you seen fighthing for something better than 8th or 10th place in MotoGP?
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You do make me laugh, he designed a road bike to compete in WSB then modified it to work in MGP and it often beats Preziosi's creations, Your genious;s factory concept beaten by a modified road bike, and you have the nerve to question why Audi have sacked him. LoL
 

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