What's Wrong with the Ducati?

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There is an interesting (although a little far-fetched) rumor about Gobmeier set to completely revolutionize the entire Ducati MotoGP project, changing also the engine (besides intitiating a collaboration with Suter for a new frame). Will he try to complete at Ducati, with Audi's blessing, the MotoGP bike he was developing with BMW? Only a few months ago there were news of a new BMW IL4 engine designed for MotoGP (this was published by Solomoto). Such a fresh start from scratch would explain why Preziosi has been removed from Corse. Whatever his experience with the desmo, it's not going to be needed...?
 
http://solomoto.es/1/1355264260/motogp/sabias-que-los-reponsables-de-carreras-de-yamaha-no-querian-el-retorno-de-rossi#.UMe5tIN9KSq


 


Si Valentino hubiese continuado a creer en el proyecto después de la primera desilusión, y si Filippo hubiese escuchado más a Valentino, en 2012 la Desmosedici habría ido mejor”.


 


If Valentino had continued to believe in the project after the first disappointment - and if Filippo had listened more to Valentino, in 2012 the Desmosedici would have gone better. - Furusawa.
 
I have been reading the first pages of this lovely thread about the problems with Ducati. Then somehow I cought two really good analysis about the situation. One from MotoDNA about Rossi's behaviour in Ducati and the other big analysis from Kropto in his website. Now that I'm writing this post I have found out that Audi is going to get Filippo Preziosi out of the team. It seems very positive and good that a huge company like Audi with a different attitude towards management has come to the help of an Italian team which is unable to support its riders like the Japanese contenders. The Germans budget and hard consistent work will help Ducati alot but in my opinion the whole Ducati reveloution thing is not necessary because of the following reasons, the first one related to the bike and the second one to the riders.:


1) If the total goal of competing in MotoGp is just to be competitive and grab titles then what is the difference between MotoGP and WSBK? I think imporving the companies technologies plays a important role in this thing. According to Kropto's article Ducati has been with the 90L engine forever and making the MotoGp engine a 4 cylander 90L was a hell of a stretch and a lot of pressure for Preziosi himself, Now by replacing the mastermind of the team, The team will loose its passion and the Company will loose its dignity. In my opinion the key to the Japanese success is not making big changes and trying new stuff, they try to use their strength, take oppurtinities, avoid threats and aknowledge their weakness little by little with hard and consistent work (some kind of the SWOT thing in organizations). 


2) I think the whole Ducati scenario was not going to be considered as a "failure" if it was not the MotoGp hero who was the one not making it work. Don't get me wrong, I like Rossi as a rider and a funny charecter, but I don't respect the celebrity actions he is involved in. In my Opinion the whole Doctor fixing the Red Italian Team back in 2011 was an unneccesary move and after that his attempt to try changing the Desmosedici's charecter to match his M1 ish style was also unsuccesfull. I'm not a Stoner's fan but I agree with his words that every bike should be ridden differently.


 


The Whole Point: In my opinion as everybody knows Ducati's main weakness'es are the wild power delivery and the lack of front end feel. So for the 2013 I think instead of making big changes that will threaten the bikes charecter, The red team should start decreasing the effects of the weak spots. In my opinion Dovi's hard braking powers can bring some usefull data about the front end problem to the team and Hayden's dirt style background (I think all the American riders have that background) will make good comments about the power delivery. So the Red Team should stop making stupid big unsuccesfull steps and trust their riders skill and powers. And the Germans should provide the team with good money and be a help. If they really want to compete in MotoGP they better bring their own tool (BMW) instead of destroying Ducati's charecter!!!      

 

 
 
Has anybody noticed that MotoGP is run by the Axis powers?


 


Now that Ducaudi is involved, we have the full 3-pronged attack.


 


 


I am uneasy...
 
Perhaps Yamaha & Honda could bomb Harley Davidson & bring them into it too?


Sure it would be a little late, the axis & British sides having already raced themselves to exhaustion, but that won't stop them taking the credit for 70 years, right?
 
Meanwhile, Voskhod smashes up BMW and camps in KTM's pit garage for several years....
 
Dr No
3405501358207892

Vehemently Stupid ......?
I,m coming up with real world engineering solutions and you are playing kiddy word games :roll eyes:

Thankfully I am able to supply you with a real world method to educate, those with a "wall" between input and cognition in their brains:

For you Sr No:

Go to your local kiddies roundabout ( something seemingly very familiar to you )

Now stand in the centre with arms at your sides and have your playmates spin the device, fast but so you can stay standing )

Then ....

Whilst spinning stretch your arms at full length horizontally outward, palms outstretched, rapidly move arms up and down.

Now tell me vsg,s have no effect .

:wink:
 
BarryMachine
3405541358210601


I,m coming up with real world engineering solutions and you are playing kiddy word games :roll eyes:


Thankfully I am able to supply you with a real world method to educate, those with a "wall" between input and cognition in their brains:


For you Sr No:


Go to your local kiddies roundabout ( something seemingly very familiar to you )


Now stand in the centre with arms at your sides and have your playmates spin the device, fast but so you can stay standing )


Then ....


Whilst spinning stretch your arms at full length horizontally outward, palms outstretched, rapidly move arms up and down.


Now tell me vsg,s have no effect .


:wink:

 


 


Real world engineering solutions.....on PS....


 


Wowee!


Polar Moment of Inertia. Maybe my playmates can ring up Gobmeier and let him know that it varies with the distance of the mass from the centre of rotation. Astounding.


He might be gentler on a 4 year old than BM attempting to enlighten him...


 


Verifiably Senile Galoot?
 
BWB - dude... have you not followed BM's epic diatribes regarding VSGs and the Ducati? Please don't encourage another round...
 
barbedwirebiker
3406211358257637


Barry, I read the links, I get it. What does it have to do with GP?


 


Damn near nothing.


 


What Barry had steadfastly refused to acknowledge, much less address, is the fact that 'The piston giveth back all that it taketh away.'


 


 


Assuming forward leading cylinders, located forward of the bike's center of yaw...


Yes, as the piston and con-rod move forward, they will steal a small fraction of the bike's rotational energy. 


This is just basic conservation of (rotational) momentum, or 'Coriolis force.'


When the same piston and con rod, now holding more rotational momentum, moves rearward on a downstroke, it will transfer that borrowed rotational energy back into the engine.  This will make the bike want to turn faster, not slower.


 


There is no persistent 'gyro' effect that resists the yawing of the bike.


In the worst case, with one big piston pointing straight ahead, the engine would see small, high frequency, lateral torque pulses occurring at hundreds of Hz.  With a rigidly mounted engine and a huge, long throw piston, enough of this noise might reach the chassis to cause handling issues.


 


However, the Ducati has not one, but TWO inclined pistons (and two vertical.)  The two pistons within each bank are light, travel less than two inches and, most importantly, are very likely to be operating 180 degrees out of phase with one another. (The timing between the two banks is less clear, and is probably varies to deliver more or less 'big bang' effect.)  If this is the case, the two pistons will trade rotational energy between them and very, very little of this potential yaw-torque-pulsing will ever touch the chassis. IMO, Barry's 'VSGs inhibit the bike's turning ability' argument is not based in reality.
 
mh_kingcobra
3399861357511600


 


I have been reading the first pages of this lovely thread about the problems with Ducati. Then somehow I cought two really good analysis about the situation. One from MotoDNA about Rossi's behaviour in Ducati and the other big analysis from Kropto in his website. Now that I'm writing this post I have found out that Audi is going to get Filippo Preziosi out of the team. It seems very positive and good that a huge company like Audi with a different attitude towards management has come to the help of an Italian team which is unable to support its riders like the Japanese contenders. The Germans budget and hard consistent work will help Ducati alot but in my opinion the whole Ducati reveloution thing is not necessary because of the following reasons, the first one related to the bike and the second one to the riders.:


1) If the total goal of competing in MotoGp is just to be competitive and grab titles then what is the difference between MotoGP and WSBK? I think imporving the companies technologies plays a important role in this thing. According to Kropto's article Ducati has been with the 90L engine forever and making the MotoGp engine a 4 cylander 90L was a hell of a stretch and a lot of pressure for Preziosi himself, Now by replacing the mastermind of the team, The team will loose its passion and the Company will loose its dignity. In my opinion the key to the Japanese success is not making big changes and trying new stuff, they try to use their strength, take oppurtinities, avoid threats and aknowledge their weakness little by little with hard and consistent work (some kind of the SWOT thing in organizations). 


2) I think the whole Ducati scenario was not going to be considered as a "failure" if it was not the MotoGp hero who was the one not making it work. Don't get me wrong, I like Rossi as a rider and a funny charecter, but I don't respect the celebrity actions he is involved in. In my Opinion the whole Doctor fixing the Red Italian Team back in 2011 was an unneccesary move and after that his attempt to try changing the Desmosedici's charecter to match his M1 ish style was also unsuccesfull. I'm not a Stoner's fan but I agree with his words that every bike should be ridden differently.


 


The Whole Point: In my opinion as everybody knows Ducati's main weakness'es are the wild power delivery and the lack of front end feel. So for the 2013 I think instead of making big changes that will threaten the bikes charecter, The red team should start decreasing the effects of the weak spots. In my opinion Dovi's hard braking powers can bring some usefull data about the front end problem to the team and Hayden's dirt style background (I think all the American riders have that background) will make good comments about the power delivery. So the Red Team should stop making stupid big unsuccesfull steps and trust their riders skill and powers. And the Germans should provide the team with good money and be a help. If they really want to compete in MotoGP they better bring their own tool (BMW) instead of destroying Ducati's charecter!!!      
   


 


Don't agree with all of it, but a very good take on things.
 

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