VR46 MotoGP

Little Walter said:

You mean like Denmark, Finland, Norway, Canada, Sweden, New Zealand, Luxenbourg, Belgium, Netherlands and France where everyone gets affordable health care, guaranteed vacation time, free day care, universal pre-k schooling, free college, and they never go to war? Wowee! That would be a tragedy. right?

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gui22a said:

This is the most commom mistake an iphone socialist commits. Don't confound the nordic model with socialism. Remember 2016 when denmark prime minister Rasmussen corrected Bernie Sanders saying denmark has a market economy. So what is that exactly?

The nordic model ISN'T the "socialism going right". That could not be more wrong! Denmark, for example, is governed by a monarchist system with a parliament. The corruption level is one of the - if not the - lowest of the world. The country regulatory environment is one the most transparent and efficient of the world. Also, Denmark is a country wide open for foreign investors. And all of that with a population half of São Paulo city. Remenber, we're talking about a country, smaller than a big city!

What you socialists generally talks about is on taxes, and only that. You rely solely on taxes (indeed nordic taxes are sky high) to conclude nordic model is socialist. But you should take a look more deeply, specially how the nordic model favors economical freedom and freedom to do business. Socialism has nothing to do with that!

If you really stop repeating what TV is saying to you and start studying the nordic model, first you would almost immediately realize it has nothing to do with socialism, despite having high taxes. Second you would realize that their model is only practical with super small countries, which are much easier to manage.

Both USA and Brazil will NEVER, EVER be like a nordic country, forget about that, no matter how serious one try. They both are continental countries with uber heterogeneous culture, and specially, they are big players in the world, piquing different interests amid the biggest economies of the world.

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Keshav said:

This all assumes that YOU are the person that is defining what Socialism is. And you are not that person. Moreover, who the .... ever said I was a socialist? Uhh.. that would be YOU again - grossly labeling progressives as socialists. Please stop already. This whole line of discussion only exists in your imagination. The thread was about Rossi’s hypocrisy in accepting blood money after making himself out to be a champion of the moral high-ground by refusing to take blood money from Big Tobacco. Only now he’s taking money from Big Oil - the people who murder their political opponents and enslave women. It’s really that simple.

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Saudi Arabia gave a joint venture including Italy’s Eni
and Repsol of Spain at least six more months to drill an exploration
well for gas in the Rub’ Al Khali desert, a Repsol spokesman said today.

The Saudi Ministry of Petroleum and Mineral Resources did
not immediately respond to an e-mail seeking confirmation of the extension, and
no one answered phone calls to the ministry’s offices in the afternoon.

The joint venture, called EniRepsa Gas Ltd., had
originally committed to drill a fourth and final well by the end of last year.
It made no announcements of significant discoveries at the other wells.

EniRepsa is one of four ventures that Saudi Aramco, the
world’s biggest state-owned oil company, has formed to explore for natural gas,
which the country needs to meet its growing energy needs. None has made
sizeable finds so far.

The ventures are required to drill a total of 27
exploration wells during the first exploration phases of their respective
projects. EniRepsa is the only one that has yet to fulfill its drilling
commitment, according to an annual review that Saudi Aramco published last
June.

“We aim to drill in the first half of this year, so the
extension must cover that period,” Kristian Rix, a Repsol spokesman, said in
e-mailed statement. He declined to give a reason for the delay.

Eni owns 50 percent of EniRepsa, while Repsol YFP owns 30
percent and Saudi Aramco, 20 percent. The venture holds a contract to explore
in a 52,000-square-kilometer area called basin block C. It has drilled three
wells in the Rub’ al-Khali, or Empty Quarter, over the past five years, Rix
said.

Aramco’s partners in its other gas ventures are Royal
Dutch Shell; China Petroleum & Chemical Corp., known as Sinopec; and
Lukoil OAO of Russia.

The Lukoil venture, called Luksar, made two discoveries
then chose not to begin a second exploration phase, Aramco said last June in
its annual review. The Shell venture, the South Rub’ Al Khali Co., also known
as Srak, said it made “promising” discoveries and announced in October that it
would start a second phase of exploration.

Chevron Corp. said in October that it planned to look for
gas this year in the so-called Neutral Zone between Saudi Arabia and
neighboring Kuwait.

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moto vudu said:

Very odd you didn't have any of this energy for Repsol doing business with Saudi!

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/eni...-well-in-saudi-arabia-by-end-june-371499.html

So now what? You got anger directed at Marquez now?

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moto vudu said:

Very odd you didn't have any of this energy for Repsol doing business with Saudi!



https://www.arabianbusiness.com/eni...-well-in-saudi-arabia-by-end-june-371499.html

So now what? You got anger directed at Marquez now?

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Keshav said:

As usual, you are missing the point. Honda has never promoted itself as being morally ascendant saying they would accept blood money. Rossi has. And BTW - who says I’m angry. That’s an assumption on your part.

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moto vudu said:

Right, your issue with Rossi is that years ago he turned down a tobacco sponsor while entire the MotoGP organization is happy to do business with ANYONE who has the cash. It just really gets under your skin that he had the audacity to reject millions from tobacco while Marquez accepts millions from Repsol/Saudi.

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Keshav said:

Again - you assume it ‘gets under my skin”. Utter nonsense. Again - you attack the messenger instead of disputing the facts. No matter how much you try to attack me or my character, you can’t dispute the fact: Rossi is a hypocrite who is lacking in character. I am not the subject of the thread.

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Keshav said:

Not acceptable by humans with a conscious desire to evolve. I am not a government. I don’t subscribe to ...... practices by any government. I can’t boycott the military complex - but I sure as .... would never put my money in the hands of any racer who aids and abets the evil .... the Saudis do.

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moto vudu said:

I have no doubt you can easily spot a hypocrite because you've been very hypocritical in this thread!



^--- FALSE! By even being a fan of motorcycle racing or most forms of racing in general, you're either directly or indirectly aiding the Saudis and much worse! CHINA!

Carmelo would have a race in Afghanistan sponsored by the Taliban if they came to him with the cash!

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Keshav said:

Again - I am not the subject of the thread. This is what Rossi fans do, they resist talking about the facts that are right there in their face - and attack anyone who exposes the truth because they can’t handle the truth.

Clearly - it’s impossible for the average person to avoid some small amount of their money going into the hands of people they don’t approve of.

Rossi, OTOH - is not the average person. He is in a position of great power and influence. He is proposing to accept blood money to help white-wash the reputation of murdering, exploitive scum. To conflate that with one person buying a cel phone is so clearly disingenuous - a transparently false equivalence.

The elephant in the room that you pretend is not there, the thing that you are incapable of acknowledging - is indisputable: Rossi pledged not to take blood money - but has gone back on his word.

If you cannot dispute that - you have nothing to add to the dialogue.

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moto vudu said:

You're right, you're not the subject of the thread. It's that you and p4p1 can't resist focusing on whatever Rossi did or does and attempt to condemn all of it even though what you're attempting to condemn him for is something Repsol/Marquez have already been doing!! But you think Rossi is worse because 15 years ago he chose to stop riding with tobacco sponsorship?!

P4p1 would never have made this thread to focus on Repsol's ties to Saudi oil money! The root of the issue is that even though Rossi hasn't been competitive, he's still more influential than Marquez and that bothers you! Marc damn near ended his career again in FP3, so you're looking for someone else to direct your negative energy toward. Don't worry about Marquez, he is getting plenty of Big Oil money to assist him!

Please define blood money! You're living in a country founded on crimes against humanity and likely typing on a computer built in a country currently committing atrocious acts against humanity while you display fake outrage about VR46 accepting a sponsorship from the SAME company Repsol does business with! Oh but you're not the subject of the thread so you don't want anyone to point out your own hypocrisy!

Just say you don't like Rossi and leave it at that. Your fake humanitarian act is pathetic. Rossi has done more positive for the sport than any other rider and this deal with Aramco isn't harming anyone.

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michaelm said:

Have not entered into the discussion in this thread which I saw from the getgo as unlikely to be fruitful, and questions can be raised about the sponsorship of many riders and teams as you say, probably even including energy drink sponsorship.

Somewhat pot kettle imo on your part calling out posters for disliking VR when your dislike of MM is equally evident, and who cares whether Rossi is more 'influential' than MM ?, they are pretty close to equal in achievements as motogp riders which is what I care about. MM getting out of those 2 crashes without further injury to his arm is a good sign for his future imo, and the mechanism of the original crash which caused the unusual injury is not very likely to be repeated. I did wonder as I am sure did many, obviously including you, if it was all over for him watching the practice crash live though. As I said on the other thread he should imo take a Mick Doohan in 1993 approach this year, and work back to full race fitness for next year, which I am fairly sure will allow him to make a strong challenge for the title next year; whether he will take such an approach for any prolonged period is a different question of course. He is not right at the top of my list of favourite riders ever, but it would be a shame again imo for the career of a rider of such immense talent to be truncated by injury.

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moto vudu said:

Am I starting any Marquez hate threads? I don't even hate Marquez, but even if I did I wouldn't go out of my way to constantly start threads and talk about him.

MM escaping injury in the FP3 crash was a result of pure luck and the effectiveness of air fences. However, his bike nearly hit him and he had zero control over anything that happened. I'm glad he didn't get hurt, but I think the problem is it's causing a lot of nervousness from his fan and they're angry at the possibility of his career getting cut short. They're so angry that they're now trying to blame Rossi for women wearing burqas.

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michaelm said:

It was brought to here, which I wouldn’t have done, but was actually based on a piece by a fairly prominent motogp ‘journalist’ in David Emmett rather than pulled from thin air, so perhaps the Rossi hating assessment is better directed at him.

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michaelm said:

It was brought to here, which I wouldn’t have done, but was actually based on a piece by a fairly prominent motogp ‘journalist’ in David Emmett rather than pulled from thin air, so perhaps the Rossi hating assessment is better directed at him.

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misfit said:

I wish I could agree with you michaelm. No smoke without fire, they say. One of the very first things that hit me hard when I joined this forum was the anti-Rossi atmosphere. I wondered what it was all about, but then I see that the current 'wasteland' of a few survivors feeling inclined to be members as well as active participators/contributors, is the aftermath of a 'war'.

So again, going off half-cocked about Rossi backtracking (who doesn't at some point), take a look in the mirror, down memory lane and finally, at the wider picture. Rossi is just one tiny cog in the wheel. His influence is blown way out of proportion and he is being expected to take responsibility for the actions of those he may be able to influence in some way, either directly or more commonly... indirectly.

Rossi now has wider responsibilities, among which is running and maintaining the viability of a team. With every decision there are pro's and con's. He may very well not like what he has to be doing and this is evident from his previously expressed sentiments about obtaining sponsorship from questionable sources. His, or rather the VR/46 team management's current choice of sponsor was likely not their first choice, but it may well have been their only choice. He therefore takes the deal as so many others do with the Saudi's because they need the oil or funding. This is how it has always been, when it's a question of maintaining viability. Back when he pontificated about tobacco sponsorship, the economic climate was likely better and he had choices.

Human nature is such that we take the moral high ground when we can afford to. Very, very, very few will go down as a result of insisting on not making the hard choice. It's even fewer when dealing with groups or corporate entities. Motorsport is deeply involved with the Saudi's at the moment. Yes, the VR/46 team management needs to make its own decision, as a team that exists under the current MotorSport umbrella. If F1 management has struck a deal with the Saudis to hold an F1 race on Saudi soil, then Dorna will likely follow suit.... it's only a matter of time.

The journalist is just doing his job. Nice and cuddly reading doesn't make for good reading. It needs to be controversial and they will pounce on any opportunity to take an idealistic stand in their articles. It provokes debate and it makes the journalist seem oh so noble and moral. To that, I say, give me a break. The armchair is very warm indeed.

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michaelm said:

I actually agree about David Emmett, who formerly posted on this forum. He seemed like a reasonable bloke back then, but imo has made too many compromises in a doubtless difficult endeavour to make a living from the sport and is hardly worth reading imo now.

My sole point was that the thread starter was essentially an article by Emmett on a site much more prominent than this one, so not out of thin air. As I thought I implied, if you really want to be moralistic about sports sponsorship this would close down the sport, and many others.

I am actually sick of criticism of Rossi despite any former stance I might have had, he is an all time great who will go back to being revered by most once he retires. I still won’t take stuff from former usual suspects though, which obviously don’t include you. If you were a Stoner, Hayden or Lorenzo fan on both this site and many others the boot was very much on the other foot for a decade or so. The argument that any current criticism of Rossi, whether or not it is logically based, is based on MM having crashes on the recent race weekend did strike me as rather specious as well..

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moto vudu said:

No, the usual suspects digging for something to criticize Rossi for was not just about Marquez crashing this weekend. Even during the winter break, Rossi was the primary subject discussed here even though the forum is mostly dead. But for most, if they're pro-Marquez they're going to be anti-Rossi. So when Marquez is struggling or in jeopardy, that only leaves them with anti-Rossi discussions. And since Rossi isn't currently competitive, they're now trying to focus on sponsors of all things.

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michaelm said:

At least he is being vilified for not winning, not that whatever he does at age 42 negates the rest of his career of course.

Try being a fan of a rider, or even more so being such a rider for that matter, who gets vilified for winning , which is what the posters with whom you currently take issue endured for a decade or more as I said.

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moto vudu said:

Rossi did get vilified for winning here. According to this forum he sucks and only ever won a race when he had special "magic" tires.

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