Valentino Rossi & Marco Simoncelli video

Iamapony · Jan 11, 2017

Keshav said:
........
I don't see why outcome shouldn't define which is which. When a rider such as Lorenzo repeatedly pulls off successful last second bids for top place on the podium and wins by a margin of thousandths of a second - it becomes self-evident that he's an inspired rider.

And the opposite was true of Simoncelli who repeatedly smashed into other riders or crashed in the the early stages of a race when not even dueling for position. Again - the difference is self-evident.

While it was obvious that Sic struggled to get himself controlled in MotoGP, if he was as bad as some think, he would not have survived the 250s, win a 'ship and placed third the next year. I just don't think you can do that while crashing all the time, can you?

I have a string of Lorenzo bumps for you to look at, if you want the whole story rather than a selective memory of JLo's racing tactics. I have included one example below because it involves Sic.

Keshav · Jan 12, 2017

moto vudu said:
Marco's fatal crash had nothing to do with him being aggressive or taking on too much risk. Racers fight to save lowsides all the time, it was an anomaly for his bike to veer back into the path of Rossi and Edwards. Any rider that participates in the sport (no matter how "safe" they want to be) could suffer a similar accident. Every rider on the grid has lost control of their bike and found themselves at the mercy of luck & physics.

But not every rider has done so with such stunningly predictable regularity.
Not every rider has earned the scorn of all his fellow riders the way Simoncelli did as a result of continually crashing into other riders - and perhaps making it worse - not even gaining better results from doing so.

You are as usual diverting/side-stepping the issue at hand. I never stated that he killed himself. My point was that he endangered other riders without heed for their well-being; hence my not missing his presence on the track.

Keshav · Jan 12, 2017

Iamapony said:
While it was obvious that Sic struggled to get himself controlled in MotoGP, if he was as bad as some think, he would not have survived the 250s, win a 'ship and placed third the next year. I just don't think you can do that while crashing all the time, can you?

I have a string of Lorenzo bumps for you to look at, if you want the whole story rather than a selective memory of JLo's racing tactics. I have included one example below because it involves Sic.

Asinine... Lorenzo in this video didn't barge into anyone. He was ahead in the turn and Simoncelli late braked in his usual bull-in-a-china-shop fashion - cutting off Lorenzo's exit. This is the work of a dumb animal, not a proper world class rider. He got himself T-Boned and for what??? You know who won the race? Lorenzo.

danski · Jan 12, 2017

Keshav said:
Asinine... Lorenzo in this video didn't barge into anyone. He was ahead in the turn and Simoncelli late braked in his usual bull-in-a-china-shop fashion - cutting off Lorenzo's exit. This is the work of a dumb animal, not a proper world class rider. He got himself T-Boned and for what??? You know who won the race? Lorenzo.

Do yourself a favour, learn how racing works, the guy in front has the line to choose, guy behind must respect that.

Iamapony · Jan 12, 2017

Keshav said:
Asinine... Lorenzo in this video didn't barge into anyone. He was ahead in the turn and Simoncelli late braked in his usual bull-in-a-china-shop fashion - cutting off Lorenzo's exit. This is the work of a dumb animal, not a proper world class rider. He got himself T-Boned and for what??? You know who won the race? Lorenzo.

Seriously? Goofy.
Well, I win ANYWAY because that means it was Lorenzo's fault when Iamapony hit him in Catalunya. rofl

Keshav · Jan 13, 2017

Daniboy said:
Do yourself a favour, learn how racing works, the guy in front has the line to choose, guy behind must respect that.

Do YOURSELF a favor. First get glasses. Then, watch the video. Lorenzo WAS in front and Sic went around him and cut off his exit from the turn leaving him no place to go except into Sic's bike.

You, thinking yourself in a position to lecture anyone about racing (let alone me) is a joke. I raced for years in the AMA Camel Pro, Pro-Am series, The WERA series and AMARR and had my own endurance racing team. And you, sitting in front of a computer all day are going to tell me to learn how racing words? Get a life son.

danski · Jan 13, 2017

Keshav said:
Do YOURSELF a favor. First get glasses. Then, watch the video. Lorenzo WAS in front and Sic went around him and cut off his exit from the turn leaving him no place to go except into Sic's bike.

For you to lecture anyone about racing (let alone me) is a joke. I raced for years in the AMA Camel Pro, Pro-Am series, The WERA series and AAMARR and had my own endurance racing team. And you, sitting there on your couch are going to tell me to learn about racing? Get a life.

So Simoncelli by going around ended up in front , maybe Lorenzo has a spacial awareness issue or needs glasses. Btw I'm quite comfortably sat in a van traveling back to Englandshire .

JPSLotus · Jan 13, 2017

moto vudu said:
Because it's difficult to lose the front then find enough traction to cause the bike to veer back across the track. It's not that the other riders aren't attempting to save lowsides with their knees and elbows, they are!

Wrong again...most guys know when the bike is unrecoverable from a lowside...

Simoncelli never was one much for thinking beyond the immediate circumstances. ....... around near the racing line the way he did was never going to have a good outcome especially when you had a whole slew of bikes coming thru at racing speeds.

Take away all other bikes on that circuit at that moment, and you'll see he had absolutely no chance of recovering that bike. He would have wound up on the grass on the right side of the circuit on his ... had he not been t-boned by Edwards and Rossi.

Always amusing that the people still trying to defend Simoncelli's dangerous riding all these years later happen to be the same myopic VR fans who wouldn't know what dangerous riding was if you drew them a road map...how could they know what dangerous riding is when they celebrate a guy who endangered a number of other riders over the years....

moto vudu · Jan 13, 2017

JPSLotus said:
Wrong again...most guys know when the bike is unrecoverable from a lowside...

Wrong, they know it's unrecoverable after the front lets go and they're sliding on their ... away from the bike. If the front is pushing or they feel it letting go but are still on the bike, they attempt to save it if possible. Marc has been seen multiple times fighting to recover a bike while sliding all the way into the gravel. Top racers don't tend to easily give up when it comes to saving a crash and they're almost always applauded and celebrated when they do pull off a crash save.

It's easy for you to sit and use hindsight to say what Marco should or shouldn't have done, but the same thing could've happened to any rider on the grid. Everyone is susceptible to a freak accident.

If the sport is too dangerous for you, stop watching.

JPSLotus · Jan 13, 2017

moto vudu said:
Wrong, they know it's unrecoverable after the front lets go and they're sliding on their ... away from the bike. If the front is pushing or they feel it letting go but are still on the bike, they attempt to save it if possible. Marc has been seen multiple times fighting to recover a bike while sliding all the way into the gravel. Top racers don't tend to easily give up when it comes to saving a crash and they're almost always applauded and celebrated when they do pull off a crash save.

It's easy for you to sit and use hindsight to say what Marco should or shouldn't have done, but the same thing could've happened to any rider on the grid. Everyone is susceptible to a freak accident.

If the sport is too dangerous for you, stop watching.

Still clueless as usual!!

You're still ignoring that Simoncelli was in an unrecoverable lowside...I did notice you conveniently ignored that he never could have recovered that bike on the tarmac and was headed for the grass where he would have fallen off due to no grip...

It wouldn't have happened to anyone else on the grid in the fashion it happened to Simoncelli...he was a dangerous rider who couldn't think beyond the immediate moment...as a result he paid the price for it.

I never said anything about the sport being too dangerous...as usual you make up stuff to deflect from your losing argument...my only issue ever with danger has been with dangerous riders that happens to include VR along with Simoncelli. His being dead will never change the reality that Simoncelli put a lot of riders at risk in his career and if I had to pick I'd rather see him dead than anyone else who had the misfortune of being near him on the circuit when something bad finally did occur....

Enjoy the moment vudu, it's the only way to fly.

moto vudu · Jan 13, 2017

JPSLotus said:
Still clueless as usual!!

You're still ignoring that Simoncelli was in an unrecoverable lowside...I did notice you conveniently ignored that he never could have recovered that bike on the tarmac and was headed for the grass where he would have fallen off due to no grip...

It wouldn't have happened to anyone else on the grid in the fashion it happened to Simoncelli...he was a dangerous rider who couldn't think beyond the immediate moment...as a result he paid the price for it.

I never said anything about the sport being too dangerous...as usual you make up stuff to deflect from your losing argument...my only issue ever with danger has been with dangerous riders that happens to include VR along with Simoncelli. His being dead will never change the reality that Simoncelli put a lot of riders at risk in his career and if I had to pick I'd rather see him dead than anyone else who had the misfortune of being near him on the circuit when something bad finally did occur....

Enjoy the moment vudu, it's the only way to fly.

Considering you love to blurt out BS such as "every rider at Valencia moved out of Rossi's way", you can't question anyone's credibility in these debates.

Marco's bike still had some grip, otherwise it would've been unable to veer back across the track. In the heat of the moment when a tire loses grip, the rider will instinctively attempt to restore traction and save the crash. Whether they're on the racing line or not is irrelevant. Regardless if in a position to fight to save the crash or already off the bike, it's an anomaly for the bike to change direction of the slide. We've all seen riders fight lowsides countless times, it was only Marco's accident that saw the bike change direction of the slide (Marco had no way to know that would happen).

Prior to Marco's accident, I don't care what on-track maneuvers you saw him do that you thought were too dangerous because that had NOTHING to do with his accident. Lorenzo criticized him for not respecting the dangers of the sport, but it could've easily been Lorenzo to lowside in front of chasing riders that couldn't avoid hitting him. No rider is immune to that possibility. All that you're doing is cherry picking which riders to criticize based on whether you like them or not (you criticize every rider NOT named Stoner). Marc Marquez has put many riders at risk on track, but he's still celebrated as champion... he takes the risk because that's what he feels has to be done to WIN.

JPSLotus · Jan 13, 2017

moto vudu said:
Considering you love to blurt out BS such as "every rider at Valencia moved out of Rossi's way", you can't question anyone's credibility in these debates.

Marco's bike still had some grip, otherwise it would've been unable to veer back across the track. In the heat of the moment when a tire loses grip, the rider will instinctively attempt to restore traction and save the crash. Whether they're on the racing line or not is irrelevant. Regardless if in a position to fight to save the crash or already off the bike, it's an anomaly for the bike to change direction of the slide. We've all seen riders fight lowsides countless times, it was only Marco's accident that saw the bike change direction of the slide (Marco had no way to know that would happen).

Prior to Marco's accident, I don't care what on-track maneuvers you saw him do that you thought were too dangerous because that had NOTHING to do with his accident. Lorenzo criticized him for not respecting the dangers of the sport, but it could've easily been Lorenzo to lowside in front of chasing riders that couldn't avoid hitting him. No rider is immune to that possibility. All that you're doing is cherry picking which riders to criticize based on whether you like them or not (you criticize every rider NOT named Stoner). Marc Marquez has put many riders at risk on track, but he's still celebrated as champion... he takes the risk because that's what he feels has to be done to WIN.

Argumentum ad hominem as a rebuttal shows how clueless you are once again!!

Unfortunately vudu, you continue missing the entire point of riding it out under race conditions with oncoming traffic at racing speeds...and that was not like most almost lowsides riders experience....not that you would know this either though....

I have criticized Stoner...everyone knows this, so lying to try and prove a point is sad...

Regarding MM, I have said plenty about him out here and about his dangerous riding...

So easy to prove you wrong....enjoy the moment!

moto vudu · Jan 13, 2017

JPSLotus said:
Argumentum ad hominem as a rebuttal shows how clueless you are once again!!

Unfortunately vudu, you continue missing the entire point of riding it out under race conditions with oncoming traffic at racing speeds...and that was not like most almost lowsides riders experience....not that you would know this either though....

I have criticized Stoner...everyone knows this, so lying to try and prove a point is sad...

Regarding MM, I have said plenty about him out here and about his dangerous riding...

So easy to prove you wrong....enjoy the moment!

Highlight in your post where you've proved something.

Iamapony · Jan 13, 2017

Keshav said:
Do YOURSELF a favor. First get glasses. Then, watch the video. Lorenzo WAS in front and Sic went around him and cut off his exit from the turn leaving him no place to go except into Sic's bike.

You, thinking yourself in a position to lecture anyone about racing (let alone me) is a joke. I raced for years in the AMA Camel Pro, Pro-Am series, The WERA series and AMARR and had my own endurance racing team. And you, sitting in front of a computer all day are going to tell me to learn how racing words? Get a life son.

You were allowed to race, as blind-as-a-bat as you are? Wow. Lucky you didn't kill anyone, I suppose. I bet you won all your races because you can't even tell who is in front. I know you didn't notice how the announcers said Simoncelli had the front position. You are the one who needs glasses, "son".

michaelm · Jan 14, 2017

Iamapony said:
You were allowed to race, as blind-as-a-bat as you are? Wow. Lucky you didn't kill anyone, I suppose. I bet you won all your races because you can't even tell who is in front. I know you didn't notice how the announcers said Simoncelli had the front position. You are the one who needs glasses, "son".

If you are giving credibility to almost any "announcer" with whom I am familiar currently covering MotoGP, particularly the official MotoGP.com crew led by one Nick Harris, you are not imo helping your case much. I suspect if Nick literally worked blindfolded he could be no more inaccurate than he already is. You are also by implication accepting his view of Rossi taking out both Stoner at Jerez 2011 and MM at Sepang 2015, given he called out Rossi on both occasions if you were watching the MotoGP.com coverage live as I was.

In answer to MV, pretty much everyone you oppose on here has called out MM for being dangerous, and the miraculous lowside saves he has made in recent years were just that, miraculous and in recent years, and pretty much by him alone. And Stoner was provably at worst the equal safest rider out there after his rookie season in the premier class, there being precisely zero accidents or injuries involving other riders caused by him subsequent to the 2006 season.

Keshav · Jan 14, 2017

moto vudu said:
Considering you love to blurt out BS such as "every rider at Valencia moved out of Rossi's way", you can't question anyone's credibility in these debates.

Marco's bike still had some grip, otherwise it would've been unable to veer back across the track. In the heat of the moment when a tire loses grip, the rider will instinctively attempt to restore traction and save the crash. Whether they're on the racing line or not is irrelevant. Regardless if in a position to fight to save the crash or already off the bike, it's an anomaly for the bike to change direction of the slide. We've all seen riders fight lowsides countless times, it was only Marco's accident that saw the bike change direction of the slide (Marco had no way to know that would happen).

Prior to Marco's accident, I don't care what on-track maneuvers you saw him do that you thought were too dangerous because that had NOTHING to do with his accident. Lorenzo criticized him for not respecting the dangers of the sport, but it could've easily been Lorenzo to lowside in front of chasing riders that couldn't avoid hitting him. No rider is immune to that possibility. All that you're doing is cherry picking which riders to criticize based on whether you like them or not (you criticize every rider NOT named Stoner). Marc Marquez has put many riders at risk on track, but he's still celebrated as champion... he takes the risk because that's what he feels has to be done to WIN.

This statement is pure pig-ignorance. Take a riding school course with Keith Code, Penguin School, Rich Oliver etc. and one of the first most basic, most universal things you teacher will drill into your head - is when you go down in the racing line - STOP MOVING - because it makes it so difficult for multiple riders coming around at the apex (especially in a blind turn) have a hard time avoiding a collision with your skull.

moto vudu · Jan 14, 2017

Keshav said:
This statement is pure pig-ignorance. Take a riding school course with Keith Code, Penguin School, Rich Oliver etc. and one of the first most basic, most universal things you teacher will drill into your head - is when you go down in the racing line - STOP MOVING - because it makes it so difficult for multiple riders coming around at the apex (especially in a blind turn) have a hard time avoiding a collision with your skull.

You have a comprehension problem. Nobody was talking about a downed rider on the racing line.

Keshav · Jan 14, 2017

moto vudu said:
You have a comprehension problem. Nobody was talking about a downed rider on the racing line.

Really? Then who inserted the following text into your post?

"In the heat of the moment when a tire loses grip, the rider will instinctively attempt to restore traction and save the crash. "

You've been the one blathering on about his crash and telling us how his attempts to save the bike in his last moments were a smart thing to do.

The discussion revolves around Simoncelli. That being so, one naturally assumes you're still justifying actions taken by him... unless as is your usual M.O. - you are again diverting, in order to run away from another argument you cannot defend.

Keshav · Jan 14, 2017

Iamapony said:
You were allowed to race, as blind-as-a-bat as you are? Wow. Lucky you didn't kill anyone, I suppose. I bet you won all your races because you can't even tell who is in front. I know you didn't notice how the announcers said Simoncelli had the front position. You are the one who needs glasses, "son".

Now - you've just made yourself look even more foolish by resorting to insults based on no form of reality. You're left with no alternative because you're drowning in all the jibberish you've been pulling out of your .... Is it any wonder that nobody here takes you seriously? Life is short and at that, too short to waste on fools who have no other purpose in life but to draw attention to themselves by simply making statements shamelessly contrary to logic or fact. What's it all about Alfie? Mummie and Dad didn't give you enough attention? Got beat up in school all the time and now you're getting revenge on the popular kids? Hate to break it to you.... it's not working. Real people with actual convictions will judge you to be insignificant - regardless of how much childish prattle you post. The fact that you're always saying: So I win... shows you have no grip on reality. There's nothing to win here. There's just folks enjoying an adult conversation.... and then there's trolls like you.

moto vudu · Jan 14, 2017

Keshav said:
Really? Then who inserted the following text into your post?

"In the heat of the moment when a tire loses grip, the rider will instinctively attempt to restore traction and save the crash. "

You've been the one blathering on about his crash and telling us how his attempts to save the bike in his last moments were a smart thing to do.

The discussion revolves around Simoncelli. That being so, one naturally assumes you're still justifying actions taken by him... unless as is your usual M.O. - you are again diverting, in order to run away from another argument you cannot defend.

Attempting to save a crash from happening isn't the same thing as a downed rider picking up his bike and trying to start it again on the racing line. If Keith Code or Rich Oliver told you to "freeze" as soon as you feel your front tire letting go then maybe they were attempting to train you wrong... as a joke.

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