Valentino Rossi & Marco Simoncelli video

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Simonceli had a large moment at Estoril in 2011 on cold tyres in the first corner, almost taking out Stoner which would have been rather detrimental to Stoner's title chances even apart from any injuries which may have ensued which Stoner pointed out post race, and crashed in the lead over-riding in the wet in the race before, and if you didn't think watching live that it was inevitable he would crash you are in a club of maybe two with Valentino Rossi perhaps the other member, and a club which definitely didn't include Stoner, Lorenzo or Pedrosa who made no attempt to pursue him. There was also the incident which resulted in Pedrosa's collar bone fracture, although I personally see that as at worst 50:50, but not many agree with me including the stewards.
 
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Interesting.

In one, we have people alluding that Simoncelli was some sort of riding god who would have won championships without question, and yet he was yet to win a race and had very few podium finishes despite having exceptional machinery.

On the other we have people saying that he was reckless and it was this recklessness that ultimately contributed to or even perhaps caused the incident that resulted in Simoncelli's passing.

Well I am late to the party a little but will throw my thoughts in.

- I said at the time of his passing, that Simoncelli had only had one race in MotoGP where I feel that he showed any full race glimpses of ability or talent that may win him a world title - that race was Phillip Island immediately prior to his passing.

- I am also leaning to the Kesh train of thought (although perhaps not as vehemently) but I personally saw nothing in Simoncelli that had me thinking he was anything other than a potential occasional race winner but he was a definite star in terms of personality as it appealed to the masses. He was in many ways the heir apparent to the legions of Rossi fans so drawn to that type of extroverted personality.

- I feel that he simply f*cked up, lost the front and then did what the vast majority of racers would do and try to save it ............ it was this mindset that ultimately cost his life. IMO but it was the act of a racer, and yes whilst in hindsight it may be foolish every weekend we see riders hanging on until the slide stops only for them to remount.


Now off on a tangent ............ all of this and I have to ask why is Ianonne criticised for his petulant and impatient riding by many of those now defending Simoncelli?

I see remarkable parrallels between both Ianonne and Simoncelli but I do sincerely hope that we soon see a major divergent path.
 
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On a different tact and so as not to be missed.

Thanks for that Shaunna as whilst neither are my cup of tea I openly welcome the posting of things of the nature as this place may seem Rossi hating as you and others say (I do disagree) but the Rossi fans are still well entitled to their entertainment in the place
 
How about being taken out of race 1 by TE, engine failures, tyre failures etc, pretty unlucky if you ask me.

How about being beaten in an entirely different race by TE? Not much luck in that, unless you consider TE getting on the best Michelins on perhaps the only occasion in the "race day special" Michelin era incredibly bad luck for poor Valentino.

He ran a specific narrative that he didn't need Honda, and fairly obviously considered Nicky Hayden to be a rider with whom HRC couldn't beat him.
 
Interesting.

In one, we have people alluding that Simoncelli was some sort of riding god who would have won championships without question, and yet he was yet to win a race and had very few podium finishes despite having exceptional machinery.

On the other we have people saying that he was reckless and it wast his recklessness that ultimately contributed to or even perhaps caused the incident that resulted in Simoncelli's passing.

Well I am late to the party a little but will throw my thoughts in.

- I said at the time of his passing, that Simoncelli had only had one race in MotoGP where I feel that he showed any full race glimpses of ability or talent that may win him a world title - that race was Phillip Island immediately prior to his passing.

- I am also leaning to the Kesh train of thought (although perhaps not as vehemently) but I personally saw nothing in Simoncelli that had me thinking he was anything other than a potential occasional race winner but he was a definite star in terms of personality as it appealed to the masses. He was in many wayst he heir apparent to the legions of Rossi fans so drawn to that type of extroverted personality.

- I feel that he simply f*cked up, lost the front and then did what the vast majority of racers would do and try to save it ............ it was this mindset that ultimately cost his life. IMO but it was the act of a racer, and yes whilst in hindsight it may be foolish every weekend we see riders hanging on until the slide stops only for them to remount.


Now off on a tangent ............ all of this and I have to ask why is Ianonne criticised for his petulant and impatient riding by many of those now defending Simoncelli?

I see remarkable parrallels between both Ianonne and Simoncelli but I do sincerely hope that we soon see a major divergent path.


My thoughts exactly as far as the Iannone comparison goes.

I have absolutely no animus against Shaunna either and value her participation in the forum.
 
Thanks all :)
Me posting my mini disclaimers (if you want to call them that haha) is more so that the passionate anti rossis of the forum don't try and draw me into a debate

I am very aware and appreciative that not all are like that :) thanks again
 
It's okay to talk about F1 in the MotoGP forum, but not Moto3? Too bad no one deletes the stupid spam threads. WTF????

I am not sure why you need any disclaimers, shaunna. It seems fine to post such a video and it ads some pizazz to an otherwise dull site this time of year. Thanks for the efforts!

Despite all the vitriol towards Marco, I liked him in 250. He beat guys despite a 20kg handicap. Very impressive. He was too aggressive in MotoGP, but he could easily have done better than Cal, in my opinion. It's interesting that he gets all the blame for his demise, despite the dislike of Rossi, here. I am not sure Rossi should get a pass, but I figure he already paid the ultimate price of seeing his friend die in front of his tire. Horrible really. I would have stopped racing.
 
Despite all the vitriol towards Marco, I liked him in 250. He beat guys despite a 20kg handicap. Very impressive. He was too aggressive in MotoGP, but he could easily have done better than Cal, in my opinion. It's interesting that he gets all the blame for his demise, despite the dislike of Rossi, here. I am not sure Rossi should get a pass, but I figure he already paid the ultimate price of seeing his friend die in front of his tire. Horrible really. I would have stopped racing.
Marco was calming down towards the end. He would have matured as a rider. No better example than Marc Marquez, in my opinion.

As for Rossi, he didn't do anything wrong on the day. Nor did Edwards. Neither of them need a pass.
 
Marco was calming down towards the end. He would have matured as a rider. No better example than Marc Marquez, in my opinion.

As for Rossi, he didn't do anything wrong on the day. Nor did Edwards. Neither of them need a pass.
Yeah, he was learning. And him hanging on was instinctual as a racer and not some flaw of character.

I know the collision may have been unavoidable, but since there is so much Rossi dislike about-these-parts, I just am stirring a pot because it's Wednesday - here. :)
 
Marco's fatal crash had nothing to do with him being aggressive or taking on too much risk. Racers fight to save lowsides all the time, it was an anomaly for his bike to veer back into the path of Rossi and Edwards. Any rider that participates in the sport (no matter how "safe" they want to be) could suffer a similar accident. Every rider on the grid has lost control of their bike and found themselves at the mercy of luck & physics.
 
Marco had a situational and spacial awareness problem on track contrary to what any of you want to believe. His numerous incidents in his career attest to this.

Lack of awareness and choosing to ride out a low side of that nature was a result of that.

No other rider has ever tried to ride out a lowside of that nature under race conditions for good reason. You don't do that on or near the racing line because you're putting other riders at risk. Marco never respected the dangers of motor racing and treated it all as a big joke opting to pander to the media for a few laughs.
 
Riders are always attempting to save lowsides, it doesn't matter if they've ran wide or if they're still near the racing line. The risk of getting hit by a competitor is present regardless if a rider fights to save the crash or not. Even when riders are successful at saving the front it's rare for the bike to veer back across the track.
 
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my mistake, rip Jules Bianchi. ofcourse its true about ride height but you would be surprised for the number of times a-class drivers took impossible risks with full awareness in races and survive to win them! dont let the outcome be a judge!

One needs to differentiate between "impossible risks" and "calculated risks". Simoncelli demonstrably was a rider who too often acted out of impulse rather than any real plan of action. He never really demonstrated a capacity to think things through to their conclusions or consequences.

I don't see why outcome shouldn't define which is which. When a rider such as Lorenzo repeatedly pulls off successful last second bids for top place on the podium and wins by a margin of thousandths of a second - it becomes self-evident that he's an inspired rider.

And the opposite was true of Simoncelli who repeatedly smashed into other riders or crashed in the the early stages of a race when not even dueling for position. Again - the difference is self-evident.
 
What's your opinion on Michael Dunlop? A man who has lost his father and two uncles on a race track and has basically accepted it's probably going to happen to him?

IMHO - he knew the risks and was like most young riders, incapable of believing in his own mortality. Had he been a rider in a track series - he would likely still be alive. Moreover - being Irish - he undoubtedly had that famous Irish fatalism. When I had my endurance team - I used to caravan with two Irish teams from track to track. My best buddies in the world. I saw that fatalism in them all the time. It made them really super competitive - tho not reckless. That fatalism combined with the whole burden of not wanting to darken his father's legacy by appearing to be a wimp - undoubtedly drove Joey to push as hard as he did.


And it bares mentioning; Dunlop won a ....-load of races. Simoncelli... not so much. Apples and Oranges.
 
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As for Rossi, he didn't do anything wrong on the day. Nor did Edwards. Neither of them need a pass.

Both were simply wrong place, wrong time and no blame whatsoever can be apportioned to either of these two riders (and I have seen some try to apportion it).

More to the point, the sheer fact that both of those riders have been able to continue after the incident shows the mental toughness of athletes at the top (IMO)
 
Riders are always attempting to save lowsides, it doesn't matter if they've ran wide or if they're still near the racing line. The risk of getting hit by a competitor is present regardless if a rider fights to save the crash or not. Even when riders are successful at saving the front it's rare for the bike to veer back across the track.

Clueless as usual...
 
everybody crash in rookie year. lorenzo too. sic was unlucky. if you dont like him its ok, but dont say he deserved it because its just plain cruel really, aside from the fact you are only a glimpse observer to the sport, you dont know half of whats happening! dont trust your eyes in a sport that requires no blinks....
 
You're clueless if you think riders are happily letting their bike lowside because of crazy 'what if' scenarios. Pro riders attempt to save every crash they can.

Wrong again Vudu...

You're incredibly clueless as to how aware pro racers are to their surroundings, down to the seemingly teeniest inch of the track....knowing spacing, where other competitors are relative to themselves...I would say actually the one's that don't have it don't last out there.

There's a reason you've never seen what happened to Simoncelli, happen to anyone else...at full lean on the ground if you don't have your knee in the ground to prop yourself up to come out of the lowside your bike is going to go in the direction it is leaned in, and Simoncelli didn't even have his knee into the ground.
 
Wrong again Vudu...

You're incredibly clueless as to how aware pro racers are to their surroundings, down to the seemingly teeniest inch of the track....knowing spacing, where other competitors are relative to themselves...I would say actually the one's that don't have it don't last out there.

There's a reason you've never seen what happened to Simoncelli, happen to anyone else...at full lean on the ground if you don't have your knee in the ground to prop yourself up to come out of the lowside your bike is going to go in the direction it is leaned in, and Simoncelli didn't even have his knee into the ground.

Because it's difficult to lose the front then find enough traction to cause the bike to veer back across the track. It's not that the other riders aren't attempting to save lowsides with their knees and elbows, they are!
 

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