Valencia Tests 8-9 November 2011

Mick D said:

LOL!!! I like that!!



Of course engineers (manufacturers) look for ever-more-complicated engineering solutions, mechanical, electrical - it's what they do. When you hand over the keys to the palace to the manufacturers you are guaranteed to get engineering solutions. The decision-making process of MGP obviously needs to be more democratic in it's governance. Input from teams, riders, manufacturers, governing bodies all need to be balanced to create the ideal formula.

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The FIM or their predecessors or whoever originally sold grand prix bike racing off for their own profit are probably ultimately responsible imo.



As you cogently point out the results of letting engineers run things is now very apparent, but I am not sure having a merchant banker/accountant led model, towards which we appear to be heading rather than anything more democratic/inclusive, will necessarily be better. Such people do not have a great record in general for strategic vision, and should be confined to counting the beans, again imo. Whilst they appear, probably correctly, to have decided the beans are not adding up at present, if going totally CRT leads to gp bike racing being "sports entertainment", as I fear is possible, most on here who are by definition hard core enthusiasts may end up nostalgic for the 800s.

Triple double.

mylexicon said:

I don't know about you, but I would love to see Casey Stoner on his Brickstones vs. Rossi on his low-tech Michelin mush hoops. It would probably be a battle for the ages.

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Absolutely. No arbitrary and precipitate rule changes if the results do not suit the TV ratings or whatever though.

double

I look forward to an 18 race victory season from Stoner. Hell lets see if he can then back it up the following season too.



Why? Because I want the best rider to win. I don't want manufactured racing so it can all be shared around equally and the fans can be "entertained". I just want to see the fastest mutha on a bike get out there and wring the neck off it week in week out. That's what I call entertainment!

Mental Anarchist said:

I look forward to an 18 race victory season from Stoner. Hell lets see if he can then back it up the following season too.



Why? Because I want the best rider to win. I don't want manufactured racing so it can all be shared around equally and the fans can be "entertained". I just want to see the fastest mutha on a bike get out there and wring the neck off it week in week out. That's what I call entertainment!

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Thats exactly what every single fan wants. Whenever their rider wins by a large margin ...... all is fine.

Pander said:

And might I add to that, fuel limitations have there advantages. Getting the most out of the fuel and its effects on combustion all filters down to production bikes in years to come.

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Yes - but that is irrelevant to RACING.

Keshav said:

Yes - but that is irrelevant to RACING.

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SO wrong !!



Whats better, an engine that gets more energy out of a litre of fuel, or one that gets less energy out of the litre? ...... Stupid to have to point it out I know

BarryMachine said:

SO wrong !!



Whats better, an engine that gets more energy out of a litre of fuel, or one that gets less energy out of the litre? ...... Stupid to have to point it out I know

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As a person who "engineers" bizarre looking variations on standard designs of musical instruments that

have served the music community well in their original forms - just for the sake of being different - I cannot

say I'm surprised that you would offer an antipodean opinion - merely for the sake of being contrary; it's what you do.



Fuel economy is an arbitrary factor that does not create better racing. It doesn't make the bike faster or better handling.

Mental Anarchist said:

I look forward to an 18 race victory season from Stoner. Hell lets see if he can then back it up the following season too.



Why? Because I want the best rider to win. I don't want manufactured racing so it can all be shared around equally and the fans can be "entertained". I just want to see the fastest mutha on a bike get out there and wring the neck off it week in week out. That's what I call entertainment!

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Can you imagine the fallout

The .... socialist soccer moms on here would commit Hari Kari

Keshav said:

It's an arbitrary factor that does not create better racing. It doesn't make the bike faster or better handling.

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Are you trying to get even more wrong ? So are you suggesting that power increases are not gained by more efficient use of the fuel by and engine? and that their is no point finding innovations with this in mind?



The whinging about fuel is a nonsense as it is probably one of the most real world applicable design criteria MGP has ever had.

Keshav said:

As a person who "engineers" bizarre looking variations on standard designs of musical instruments that

have served the music community well in their original forms - just for the sake of being different - I cannot

say I'm surprised that you would offer an antipodean opinion - merely for the sake of being contrary; it's what you do.

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.......!



Stick one in front of a speaker stack and tell me that same thing .......... or plug one into an effects unit ,,,,, not sure whether Strad/Amati/Guarnarius ever made an effects unit? or heard/imagined such sounds could be made .......... no I think its you who is being "contrary", otherwise you would never had said such a newb. thing

BarryMachine said:

.......!



Stick one in front of a speaker stack and tell me that same thing .......... or plug one into an effects unit ,,,,, not sure whether Strad/Amati/Guarnarius ever made an effects unit? or heard/imagined such sounds could be made .......... no I think its you who is being "contrary", otherwise you would never had said such a newb. thing

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I think its about time you put a fuel consumption limitation on your drinking you slosh. This 21+ liters a days has got you sounding crazy..........even for you.

BarryMachine said:

Thats exactly what every single fan wants. Whenever their rider wins by a large margin ...... all is fine.

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I can't speak for MA, and he would very likely object to me doing so, but I don't think this is his point. He may make the assumption that stoner is the best rider, perhaps not totally unreasonably on current evidence, but I believe his point is that if a rider is good enough to win 18 races then so be it, with which I wouldn't have thought you would disagree. I preferred stoner or previously doohan of whom I am/was a fan to be doing the winning of 9 or more races a season, but didn't have a particular problem with rossi doing it either, as he obviously did for more than a few seasons.

BarryMachine said:

Stick one in front of a speaker stack and tell me that same thing .......... or plug one into an effects unit ,,,,, not sure whether Strad/Amati/Guarnarius ever made an effects unit? or heard/imagined such sounds could be made

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Would it make them sound better? I am not sure engineering can ameliorate all aspects of the human condition/experience, useful though it may be in very many applications.

BarryMachine said:

Are you trying to get even more wrong ? So are you suggesting that power increases are not gained by more efficient use of the fuel by and engine? and that their is no point finding innovations with this in mind?

The whinging about fuel is a nonsense as it is probably one of the most real world applicable design criteria MGP has ever had.

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You have yet to explain in what manner the bike is more competitive as a result of using one or two gallons less fuel.

There is such a thing a the point of diminishing returns. Tens of millions of dollars spent to save a gallon or two of fuel

per race is foolish.

BarryMachine said:

.......!



Stick one in front of a speaker stack and tell me that same thing .......... or plug one into an effects unit ,,,,, not sure whether Strad/Amati/Guarnarius ever made an effects unit? or heard/imagined such sounds could be made .......... no I think its you who is being "contrary", otherwise you would never had said such a newb. thing

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Plugging a Stradavarius into a wah wah pedal is not an improvement; it's fashion. You constantly confuse the two.

Mick D said:

LOL!!! I like that!!



Of course engineers (manufacturers) look for ever-more-complicated engineering solutions, mechanical, electrical - it's what they do. When you hand over the keys to the palace to the manufacturers you are guaranteed to get engineering solutions. The decision-making process of MGP obviously needs to be more democratic in it's governance. Input from teams, riders, manufacturers, governing bodies all need to be balanced to create the ideal formula.

Click to expand...

I'll never be upset with an engineer for creating complicated, high-performance solutions. GP would be Superbike if the engineers stopped developing. However, I will let engineers have it with both barrels for allowing themselves to get bored, and the solving their boredom with complicated restrictions on racing. Engineers never seem to understand that racing is the revenue-generating activity that provides them with a job.



Regarding the Mushelin-versus-Brickstone spectacle, I often wonder what the sport would look like if the formula had been left at 990cc-24L. I doubt MotoGP would require arbitrary changes to improve the show. The engineers would have become bored, and they would have started the 500cc game all over again: No bike is perfect so what's wrong with our bike? The V5 is too wide. Build a new V4. The valve-springs break too easily and we rebuild to frequently. Adapt a pneumatic system. Our bike uses too much fuel. Develop fuel saving electronics. Chatter. Build new chassis designs. We only use a fraction of the engine's potential power. Reduce displacement.



I try not to lose my cool with Honda, but the company is an evil empire from a MotoGP standpoint. MotoGP is a miniscule blip on Honda's radar so they don't use it for funding. MotoGP doesn't generate sufficient funds for them now, and it probably won't unless it becomes as big as F1. Therefore, Honda use MotoGP to brand, and branding is all about winning by whatever means necessary. Doesn't matter if the sport collapses, they will move on to another branding activity as they have done in the AMA.



Why do the other manufacturers follow them around?!

Mental Anarchist said:

I look forward to an 18 race victory season from Stoner. Hell lets see if he can then back it up the following season too.



Why? Because I want the best rider to win. I don't want manufactured racing so it can all be shared around equally and the fans can be "entertained". I just want to see the fastest mutha on a bike get out there and wring the neck off it week in week out. That's what I call entertainment!

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James Ellison is your man then

Mental Anarchist said:

I look forward to an 18 race victory season from Stoner. Hell lets see if he can then back it up the following season too.



Why? Because I want the best rider to win. I don't want manufactured racing so it can all be shared around equally and the fans can be "entertained". I just want to see the fastest mutha on a bike get out there and wring the neck off it week in week out. That's what I call entertainment!

Click to expand...

James Ellison is your man then