Tomizawa passes away

mylexicon said:

Of course they support Butler b/c they are covering their own ...... Is it surprising that this no-flag came immediately after one of the worst red-flag calls this year? I don't know whether or not it was warranted, but the delay was very long, and the ruling about who was and who was not allowed to restart was a complete disaster. Imo, that was not Paul Butler's fault, but I think it's safe to say that the events at IMS affected Butler b/c he didn't flag the Misano race when a rider was lying incapacitated on the racing surface. There is no other reason for a red flag to exist. Badly injured rider who had been struck by two bikes at the fastest corner on the track was lying on the racing surface.



Does Butler need angels to come down from heaven to tell him to throw the red flag. It is absolutely unnerving that Butler could be so brain dead, and at the very least, it erodes the confidence of the riders, the medical staff, AND THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WHO UNDERWRITE THE RISK OF THESE EVENTS.



Butler should be packing his things right now.

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Agree 100%

I've just cklicked this thread without reading it as I haven't seen the race yet, but my great weekend was saddened by literally just hearing the news about Shoya Tomizawa. However please don't mourn Shoya's passing, but instead celebrate the great skill he had and some of the great entertainment he has given us fans this year.



RIP Shoya

R.I.P Shoya-San

Tom said:

That has crossed my mind, but as i said if the riders or any officials behind the scenes feel mistakes have been made i believe they will address the issue and it can be avoided in future. We are talking about peoples lives here and i don't think anyone at Dorna, the FIM or in motogp is ruthless and un-caring enough to not be moved by this weekends events and knowingly overlook things that need to be changed.

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Personally, I don't think the rules need to be changed, but the procedures as they are written and understood do need to be followed!



It was predictable that Dorna would circle the wagons, but I can't interpret their political play as an indication of Dorna's true thoughts on the matter. I believe Dorna and the FIM will make a good faith effort to reform things, but as Arrab has already pointed out, the last time we had a tragic death of this magnitude, Dorna and the FIM offered nothing politically correct window dressing while the MSMA exploited the tragedy to vote through the worst formula in the history of Grand Prix racing. Over time, the FIM/Dorna have returned to the same bad habits and the same lack of focus that led to a crisis of confidence in 2003. Peter Lenz died last weekend. It wasn't on Dorna's watch, but what was there response? Politically correct window dressing (memorial services, rider signs, etc) while completely ignoring the importance of first response trauma care!!



We have a Dorna playbook that is just 1 week old. I think it is safe to say we will get a DediTomi event and nothing more.



There are legitimate questions to be asked about the safety of Turn 11 which in my opinion was always a widow-maker. Admittedly, turn 1 at Laguna is not substantially better, but only the sharpest GP riders on earth ride at Laguna (maybe it should stay that way?).Also, the FIM needs to install safety personnel who are beyond the reach of the commercial rights interests. They don't need to be nanny-staters, just people who direct races in a predictable and consistent manner and who do not answer to anyone for commercial reasons.



I don't know if ditching Misano (or at least removing the astroturf) or creating a new safety director will fix anything, but it's a start. Imo, the FIM have still not made a start in the right direction besides maybe improving the runoff requirements after Kato's death.

R.I.P. Tomizawa.... it was bad to see it live.... and then find out about his death in the middle of the MotoGP race... was a sad moment... he did well winnign the first Moto2 GP in Qatar... we lost a young talent ... and is always hard to see a rider fall in a race.

I will premise by saying the race should have undoubtably been red flagged.



That being said, nothing happened as a result of the red flag "not" being thrown, thank God. If they did pull the red flag, I don't think the corner marshalls under the circumstances, should have done any different. They didn't have the tools or the training immediately available to perform the medical attention that Tomi needed. Rog is arguing that they should have treated him on the track. Which is a very valid point, although I will disagree with waiting for an ambulence to roll on track. That "could" have taken much longer than was required to even have a chance at reviving. What happened on track was not the optimal procedure and in life and death situations, these should be in place whenever possible. If that means placing a doctor on every corner on the track with equipment and team of first responders then they should look into that. The first responders under teh judgement of a corner official should have the training to call for a red flag. Which leads to Butler.



Butler should be fired. He has proven to be incomptent at his job which is too important to make mistakes such as these. I expect his resignation to come out soon.



Lastly, RIP Tomi, I had my eye on you when you surprised everyone with your ride at Qatar. You were a promising star on the rise and I was hoping intently that you would do well. This fan here will miss you.

RIP Shoya Tomizawa.................you died doing what we all dream about doing................for that you will always be a champion.





Red Flag



Red Flag



Red Flag.



In WSBK race 1 on the weekend, Haslam & Corser had what looked like a big crash......INSTANT RED FLAG.........both riders got up & lined up for re-started the race. Thank god.



Red Flag was the right call even though neither rider needed a stretcher. Better to call a red flag & not need it than need a red flag but fail to call it.



Well done WSBK........once again doing it better than MotoGP.



Shame Dorna.........Shame MotoGP.

I don't understand why folks are demonizing T11 and the track. Turkey, Portugal, Laguna, and many other courses have fast, low-angle corners that are similar. Yea, we could place chicken .... chicanes in front of each one, but is that really what the riders and fans want?





If you feel the need to place blame, you might toss some Carmelito's way. He's arguably the one responsible for allowing 40+ riders on track. Moto2's large grid means that those falling from near the lead instantly have several dozen machines bearing down on them. It's all a matter of odds and, IMO, something like this was inevitable. OTOH, DePuniet managed to get run over while racing in the much smaller MotoGP class. (No one called Sachsenring 'unsafe' at the time.) It he'd been hit in the neck, rather than the leg, we might have 3 dead riders in 4(?) races. No matter what, motorcycle racing is dangerous and good people will occasionally die. I think we need to acknowledge this and stop looking for boogey-men to blame.

Not sure which thread to post this in but anyhow, does anyone have any opinions on what caused Shoya to go so wide at T11?. I dont think he went in to hot. From what I've seen on the replay his bike seemed to twitch slightly as he was going in, it didn't seem much but at that speed perhaps just enough to throw him slightly offline.



Still gutted about this .......those images take some getting out of your head.

Red flag or no red flag...Tomizawa would probably not have made it. The result, unfortunately would not have changed much.



I agree to the red flag, but not having run the red flag would not have hanged the outcome...Tommy got run over by two bikes travelling at 240km...and did not move afterwards.



Nobody wants what happened to ever happen, and the two track marshalls did the best they could under the circumstances, to get him off the track asap before other bikes came around...



Lets remember the great person and rider Tomizawa was...



GodSpeed Tomizawa.

CaramaC said:

Not sure which thread to post this in but anyhow, does anyone have any opinions on what caused Shoya to go so wide at T11?. I dont think he went in to hot. From what I've seen on the replay his bike seemed to twitch slightly as he was going in, it didn't seem much but at that speed perhaps just enough to throw him slightly offline.



Still gutted about this

.......those images take some getting out of your head.

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I believe he hit the patch of artificial grass...

CaramaC said:

Not sure which thread to post this in but anyhow, does anyone have any opinions on what caused Shoya to go so wide at T11?. I dont think he went in to hot. From what I've seen on the replay his bike seemed to twitch slightly as he was going in, it didn't seem much but at that speed perhaps just enough to throw him slightly offline.



Still gutted about this

.......those images take some getting out of your head.

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Casey Stoner lambasts track design after fatal Shoya Tomizawa crash

By Robert Grant

September 06, 2010 Australia's Casey Stoner has lambasted MotoGP track designs following the death of Japanese rider Shoya Tomizawa in the Moto2 San Marino Grand Prix.



Shoya Tomizawa, 19, suffered multiple head and internal injuries when he was struck by following bikes in a sickening 240km/h crash.



Stoner, still fighting an ill-handling Ducati, subsequently finished a distant fifth in the MotoGP race and slumped to fifth place in the championship.



Most riders, including reigning world Valentino Rossi and Stoner, had watched Tomizawa's crash on television as they waited for their race to follow the Moto2 event.



"I knew it was bad," Rossi said.



"I hoped only for fractures but I thought he was dead."



American rider Nicky Hayden said: "I could feel it on the grid, everybody kind of knew, so I didn't need to ask - I could feel it."



Stoner, the 2007 world champion, led the call for a safety review to instil a feeling of caution amongst riders.



Tomizawa was racing flat out through the fastest corner of the circuit when he ran wide over the edge of the track, spun sideways as he tried to recover, and was struck by Alex de Angelis and Scott Redding.



"The race should have been stopped," an emotional Stoner said.



"You could see from the television that this was a crash you couldn't walk away from.



"Tomizawa was a rider to watch in the future, this is extremely disappointing."



Stoner said the placement of smooth tarmac run-off areas and artificial grass on track edges had taken the fear factor out of running off the track, and had made riders feel "bullet proof".



"The extra tarmac gives everybody an invincible feeling that they can run off and come straight back on," he said.



"It is ridiculous.



"Riders become too confident and, without fear, they ride with too much confidence and things like this can happen.



"Grass is not the best thing, but if it was real grass or real dirt people wouldn't push that far.



"I was watching the race and these things can happen.



"It didn't get inside my head before the race and you know there is always a chance it could happen to you."

Prosecutor considers action over Tomizawa death



The prosecutor of Rimini has reportedly launched an investigation into the death of Shoya Tomizawa following the Moto2 Grand Prix at Misano.



According to the Italian ANSA news agency, Paolo Giovagnoli will begin an inquest into the 19-year-old's tragic death in a move that could also see criminal charges being brought.



Tomizawa crashed on lap 12 of the race into the path of Alex de Angelis and Scott Redding, but the race was not stopped as track marshals swiftly stretchered him off the circuit.



However, Tomizawa was then accidentally dropped by a marshal when they stumbled whilst carrying through the gravel.



With an impending autopsy set to reveal exactly what contributed to his death, ANSA says Giovagnoli is considering bringing charges to individuals that are yet to be identified.



The news comes after MotoGP officials defended the decision not to stop the race to allow Tomizawa to receive treatment at the track, claiming they were better equipped to deal with his serious injuries behind the scenes.

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I wonder which "individuals" they're referring to. Marshalls? Race officials? Hmm...

According to the Italian ANSA news agency, Paolo Giovagnoli will begin an inquest into the 19-year-old's tragic death in a move that could also see criminal charges being brought.

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Squeaky bum time for MGP officials.

CaramaC said:

Squeaky bum time for MGP officials.

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i hope there shitting themselves.they brought a long running case in Italy after Sennas death Didn't they is that still running its course

lets all read / hear what happened Sunday Race Control Phone / Radio chatter etc

Not often i say this but well said casey.

Stoner, the 2007 world champion, led the call for a safety review to instil a feeling of caution amongst riders.



Tomizawa was racing flat out through the fastest corner of the circuit when he ran wide over the edge of the track, spun sideways as he tried to recover, and was struck by Alex de Angelis and Scott Redding.



"The race should have been stopped," an emotional Stoner said.



"You could see from the television that this was a crash you couldn't walk away from.



"Tomizawa was a rider to watch in the future, this is extremely disappointing."

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[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iJrt9y-8y4&feature=fvwk[/media]

It was indeed very sad news. I feel so sorry for his family and friends..

RIP Shoya.. We miss you.

It´s always difficult to see something like that happen.

My thoughts are with his family and friends.

It´s hard to find the right words,so I´m behind my buddy Jasper and his words:



We all gona miss you! But we'll meet again!! Don't know where, don't know when. But I know we'll meet again some sunny day. Keep smiling through, just like you always do! Till the blue skies drive the dark clouds far away... Never forgot you and all the memories!! R.I.P. Shoya Tomizawa #48 - Ciao Mate, your Samurai friend#53 @ Home

Geonerd said:

I don't understand why folks are demonizing T11 and the track. Turkey, Portugal, Laguna, and many other courses have fast, low-angle corners that are similar. Yea, we could place chicken .... chicanes in front of each one, but is that really what the riders and fans want?

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I've never like Turn 11 b/c unlike the other kinks on the calendar at Laguna and Estoril, Turn 11 at San Marino is legitimate knee-down lean angle. Corner entry is somewhere around 170mph for MotoGP bikes. I don't understand the inconsistency. These people are petrified to go over 200mph in a straightline (don't cite Mugello, the Italians were sexing up the top speed data, it was actually slightly over 200mph on the telemetry) b/c someone might fall off, but they are willing to have a knee down at 170mph? The inconsistencies of their safety philosophy and procedures are very strange.



I won't blame the grid b/c the grid size was not to blame. A 6 bike grid can result in the situation that led to Tomizawa's death. If he had been killed in a massive traffic jam on the first lap, then, yes, it would be time to question Carmelo and the people at Dorna who allowed a 40 bike grid, but most importantly, it would be time to ask them why they refuse to hand out suspensions when riders like Debon go bowling for Moto2 bikes at their home race.