Tomizawa passes away

RIP Tomizawa.



Ignorant outsiders, and some heartbroken race fans and participants, may reflect on what they see as a waste of a young life, lost in the pursuit of being the best at riding a motorcycle repeatedly around a closed circuit. But what is important? What pursuits are truly deserving of one's time and effort? While many ascribe great spiritual meaning to our existence, I feel life is pointless, lacking a singular, greater purpose.



Once again, what is important? There are two types of people in this world: those who make it possible to live (e.g. doctors, police, EMS, fire fighters) and those who make life worth living. How boring would life be if we only did the "important things"? If all we did was go to work and then sleep in our beds until the sun rose again? We need people who excite and inspire us, whether they are painters, athletes, musicians, movie driectors...racers.



Shoya Tomizawa lived on the edge and in doing so added color to life. Shoya, your life was not wasted.

Mr. Shupe said:

RIP Tomizawa.



Ignorant outsiders, and some heartbroken race fans and participants, may reflect on what they see as a waste of a young life, lost in the pursuit of being the best at riding a motorcycle repeatedly around a closed circuit. But what is important? What pursuits are truly deserving of one's time and effort? While many ascribe great spiritual meaning to our existence, I feel life is pointless, lacking a singular, greater purpose.



Once again, what is important? There are two types of people in this world: those who make it possible to live (e.g. doctors, police, EMS, fire fighters) and those who make life worth living. How boring would life be if we only did the "important things"? If all we did was go to work and then sleep in our beds until the sun rose again? We need people who excite and inspire us, whether they are painters, athletes, musicians, movie driectors...racers.



Shoya Tomizawa lived on the edge and in doing so added color to life. Shoya, your life was not wasted.

Click to expand...

That was nice Mr. Shupe. I'll stand behind those words today.

A sad day. Nothing more nothing less.

Mr. Shupe said:

RIP Tomizawa.



Ignorant outsiders, and some heartbroken race fans and participants, may reflect on what they see as a waste of a young life, lost in the pursuit of being the best at riding a motorcycle repeatedly around a closed circuit. But what is important? What pursuits are truly deserving of one's time and effort? While many ascribe great spiritual meaning to our existence, I feel life is pointless, lacking a singular, greater purpose.



Once again, what is important? There are two types of people in this world: those who make it possible to live (e.g. doctors, police, EMS, fire fighters) and those who make life worth living. How boring would life be if we only did the "important things"? If all we did was go to work and then sleep in our beds until the sun rose again? We need people who excite and inspire us, whether they are painters, athletes, musicians, movie driectors...racers.



Shoya Tomizawa lived on the edge and in doing so added color to life. Shoya, your life was not wasted.

Click to expand...

Great inspired post

It sickens me to watch the events that unfolded after Tomizawa's crash. Where was the red flag? I mean wtf warrants a red flag? You have 3 riders lying on the ground needing EMERGENCY help ASAP..... thats what the red flags are for. What's the point of even having a red flag if you're not to use it even when there's a body there lying motionless.



R.I.P. Shoya Tomizawa

Arrabbiata1 said:

So Barry is wrong - read what he is saying. Lex you've reiterated exactly what I originally said. Race direction never afforded the team at the corner the luxury of examining him before he was moved - and that is exactly what Rog and I are saying. It should have been flagged.

Click to expand...

The red flag is not related to his medical condition, I was simply pointing out that we all agree about the need for a red flag.



The point was Tomizawa's vitals. Considering he died of heart failure from blunt trauma, it is highly likely that his vital signs were very poor. Yes, a red flag could have afforded the cornerworkers and medics the luxury of taking a look, but what they saw would have been no different. This doesn't let Butler off the hook by any stretch, but a red flag wouldn't have THE MEDICAL competence of the treatment. Obviously, running and dropping Tomizawa looks bad which deeply wounded the appearance of medical competence and of race direction.



We can say with a very high degree of certainty that Tomizawa's vitals were either nil or very poor. If that is the case, nothing matters but getting him to trauma care. You've either got to move Tomizawa flat out over the wall and then begin CPR while you wait for an ambulance, or you've got to perform CPR on the track while you wait for an ambulance. The best option is whatever is quickest. Doesn't matter how many times he is dropped or how insecure his airway may be. Running with a badly injured patient on a stretcher is actually part of first response however ugly it may be. Imo, the marshalls, cornerworkers, and medics are competent and blameless assuming they observed non-existent vitals before dropping him during the stretcher ride. Speed was absolutely critical regardless of how it looked. The pretty option (ambulance to Tomizawa) was not available b/c Butler was out for lunch, but I doubt it would have made a significant difference.

SuperShinya56 said:

It sickens me to watch the events that unfolded after Tomizawa's crash. Where was the red flag? I mean wtf warrants a red flag? You have 3 riders lying on the ground needing EMERGENCY help ASAP..... thats what the red flags are for. What's the point of even having a red flag if you're not to use it even when there's a body there lying motionless.



R.I.P. Shoya Tomizawa

Click to expand...

+1 For the love of God Tom, even SS56 expresses his genuine shock and disbelief. Is that o.k with you?



If you really and sincerely do not understand the connection between the utter frustration and anger over today's appalling events, and our respect for Shoya then I will honour your request for now. Please in turn understand and appreciate why I will eventually reply to you on here in full in due course, because I have seen enough of this now. The memory of such tragedies as Craig, and Daijiro endures, but not sufficiently to alter this atrocious handling of trackside treatment, (the term race direction is frankly a farce) and yes it is important to challenge this now and so soon - both out of respect for the brilliant Shoya Tomizawa and in order that, God forbid any future accident may immediately receive the prompt and correct response from those in a position to effectively coordinate the circuit. BSB have addressed this, why not the Blue Ribbon Class.

mylexicon said:

. The pretty option (ambulance to Tomizawa) was not available b/c Butler was out for lunch, but I doubt it would have made a significant difference.

Click to expand...

But it should have been there, irrespective of whether you think it would have made a difference - this is Moto GP for Christ sake Lex, and furthermore, we cannot afford for Paul Butler to defect on his duties yet again. We owe this to our future riders. I've seen enough of this now.



You miss the point that SS56 so resoundingly made - what is the point of a red flag if it isn't used? - when we see so many yellow, blue and even black controversially and over zealously waved in comparison - because, and yes I ....... said it, that doesn't interfere with TV schedules. I repeat BSB have learnt, why not Moto GP? In the same race - Iannone was mechanistically removed from the race - quite in accordance with the rules, over a jump start. Why the ...., in the face of such a horrific and appalling accident was the SAME RACE not instantly red flagged? I'm sorry, but I ....... cannot comprehend why people on here express disapproval at my outrage. It's not too soon to express these sentiments - and it doesn't detract from our tributes to Tomi - God bless his soul but I felt exactly the same on April 6th 2003 - seconds after Kato fell. Perhaps, in line with his family relations, friends and and team I should grieve and reserve my judgement out of respect, but I say again - I have seen enough now. BSB would have reacted appropriately in seconds.

I don't post here much and I missed the Motogp2 race. But after watching the (last remaining video that Dorna hasn't removed) online, I have to say that there was no hope for Tomizawa after that accident, dropped stretcher or not. I watched the accidents of Kato and Jones live and had the same gut feeling when they had their accidents, even though I watched this one after the fact.



I don't race but have been following this sport for over 30 years. I have to say that he had a slide going, ran it onto the rumble strip and the astroturf was the clincher. Some have suggested on Crash.net that the large field is a problem but this wasn't what killed the poor guy and neither was a dropped stretcher.



Having said all that and despite the spin on Motogp.com. IF THAT DIDN"T WARRANT A RED FLAG THEN..................



I hope this link still works:



http://stupidcelebrities.net/2010/09/05/motorcycle-racer-shoya-tomizawa-dies-after-crash-video/

Arrabbiata1 said:

But it should have been there, irrespective of whether you think it would have made a difference - this is Moto GP for Christ sake Lex, and furthermore, we cannot afford for Paul Butler to defect on his duties yet again. We owe this to our future riders. I've seen enough of this now.

Click to expand...

My opinion is the same as yours and SS's in regards to the red flag. Everyone agrees b/c it was plain as day that an incapacitated rider lay on the race surface. Grill Butler 1000 times over, I don't care. Everyone knows that Tomizawa's accident is basically the definition of a red flag incident and it is outrageous that he didn't throw a flag, but Butler is not responsible for Tomizawa's death, and he doesn't have to be in order to get nailed to the wall. The utter and complete lack of methodological discipline in regards to race direction is enough for him to be dismissed.



My point is that we know Tomizawa died due due to heart failure which means his vitals were likely non-existent or very poor. If he has little or no vital signs, running with him on a stretcher is a legitimate thing to do b/c you've got to get him to the trauma center. Therefore, the first responders cannot really be held culpable b/c they responded properly. The people who staff the medics can question their ability to coordinate a stretcher run, but they didn't do anything wrong or make any incorrect decisions.



The medics, marshalls, and first responders all acted in accordance with every first aid procedure I've learned. Vitals, bleeding, then immobilization. If vitals are nil. Attempt to resuscitate and transport with extreme conviction.

mylexicon said:

My point is that we know Tomizawa died due due to heart failure which means his vitals were likely non-existent or very poor. If he has little or no vital signs, running with him on a stretcher is a legitimate thing to do b/c you've got to get him to the trauma center. Therefore, the first responders cannot really be held culpable b/c they responded properly. The people who staff the medics can question their ability to coordinate a stretcher run, but they didn't do anything wrong or make any incorrect decisions.



The medics, marshalls, and first responders all acted in accordance with every first aid procedure I've learned. Vitals, bleeding, then immobilization. If vitals are nil. Attempt to resuscitate and transport with extreme conviction.

Click to expand...

And you miss my point. Very simply, let the memory of Tomi effect the changes needed to deploy the correct and appropriate trackside resources and logistical support - because since Suzuka, nothing has really changed bar this instigation of this farcical formula. The accidents are still brushed aside by callous commercial interests.

I think this incident clearly draws the line at what NEEDS to be done in case of an emergency and what is acceptable to let the race continue on. Any race event organizer should always be prepared and ready in case such an event like this should happen. As a racer, you always want that security knowing that if anything should happen to you, that there is competent people around that you can trust to make good decisions..... and clearly what happened today wasn't the case. I understand that in a moment of panick and distress..... things can go a bit haywire, BUT that is the reason why one must always prepare for the worse and act accordingly.

Arrabbiata1 said:

And you miss my point. Very simply, let the memory of Tomi effect the changes needed to deploy the correct and appropriate trackside resources and logistical support - because since Suzuka, nothing has really changed bar this instigation of this farcical formula. The accidents are still brushed aside by callous commercial interests.

Click to expand...

I am not impeding change. Medicine is a methodology not a result, same with race direction. Everyone involved does not have to be guilty of negligent homocide for things to change. In fact, if you tie Tomizawa's fatality to the violation of decent race direction, then you are setting cultural precedent that people can only be dismissed if tragedy or death result.



A massive 3 rider crash at the fastest turn on the track resulted in an incapacitated rider lying on the race surface. No red flag was displayed. There needn't be a death for Butler to be sent packing, and my attempts to point out that Butler is not responsible for Tomizawa's death will not save Butler from inquisition. Butler did not follow procedure by any stretch of the imagination nor did he exercise good judgment or competence. If for no other reason, Butler should be fired for cost-efficiency reasons b/c having no race direction is cheaper and it wouldn't have any impact on safety.

mylexicon said:

The medics, marshalls, and first responders all acted in accordance with every first aid procedure I've learned. Vitals, bleeding, then immobilization. If vitals are nil. Attempt to resuscitate and transport with extreme conviction.

Click to expand...

Thanks for putting itlike that.



I took afront at the comments at the Marshals, almost blaming them for Tomi's death.



To a stunned rider they are a godsend for providing safety direction, when you need a hot exhaust removed from you they are a godsend, when you want your bike off the track so it doesn't hurt any other rider they are a godsend. In the Tomi accident, what I saw was not as trivial as the above may seem.



As Keshav gave an example, the life of a marshal is not at all a "free ticket and ront row seat". They are fairly well trained, especially the medics. They have no onus to go out into an unpredictablely dangerous situation, however these guys in Tomi's case saw that he really needed immediate assistance. It is a situation that not many would ever place themselves in.



My hat goes off to them and I thank them for their frantic efforts. Sadly as we now know, it was in vain.

BarryMachine said:

My hat goes off to them and I thank them for their frantic efforts. Sadly as we now know, it was in vain.

Click to expand...

Amen!

mylexicon said:

I am not impeding change. Medicine is a methodology not a result, same with race direction. Everyone involved does not have to be guilty of negligent homocide for things to change. In fact, if you tie Tomizawa's fatality to the violation of decent race direction, then you are setting cultural precedent that people can only be dismissed if tragedy or death result.

Click to expand...

I didn't. It wasn't in the event related. At no point do I suggest that Mr Butler was culpable. I am simply pointing out that he has consistently failed in his role, as has the system which he presides over. On this occasion a rider tragically died. I have seen scores of similar incidents in which the red flag has not been used, but through good sheer fortune alone the riders have escaped serious injury and death. This as you correctly observed could in all probability not have been averted; But. I would like to see a response which prioritises a riders life - (irrespective of today's press release from the host of Dorna apologists) over the commercial interests of what has become a shockingly ineptly run series.

BarryMachine said:

My hat goes off to them and I thank them for their frantic efforts. Sadly as we now know, it was in vain.

Click to expand...

Barry, that's the point I am making. Frantic efforts do not save lives whereas - a measured planned response can.. Shoya was dropped by a marshall under pressure, stumbling in a gravel trap mandated by his urgency to clear the track to ensure the continuation of the race. Did you not read my earlier post man? Had I have bundled the severely injured rider off the road in the accident I encountered to ensure that the traffic continued in that direction I'd be quite rightly crucified in a court of law.



In a similar scenario now, BSB would have flagged that in seconds, and the rider would have been treated where he lay. Rog and I do not so much find fault with the marshalls who generally I'm sure acted in good faith, but the system that failed them yet again. They become the unwitting and unrighteous victims, while the highly paid and highly inept Paul Butler remains in his job.



And I agree, sadly, in spite of the goodwill and the dedication of those trackside, it was in vain.

Shut up Arab you and your fabrications of mishandling an injured rider are making me sick.



There is no compromise at such times, waiting for a red flag or whatever.

They could not wait for an ambulance to get closer ......... it was critical. ie. they had 3 minutes to get him on a machine ..... they grabbed him and ran!!



They, the marshals at the corner, saw the desperation of the situation, and acted immediately. Full kudos to them nothing more nothing less.

BarryMachine said:

Shut up Arab you and your fabrications are making me sick.



There is no compromise at such times, waiting for a red flag or whatever. They, the marshals at the corner, saw the desperation of the situation, and acted immediately. Full kudos to them nothing more nothing less.

Click to expand...

For once, read my posts Barry and listen - I agree with you. Stop creating division - there is no argument here. I'm sorry that the call for a red flag is perceived by you as a fabrication, or the likewise the obvious flaws in the system. Please understand that it is wrong to drag an injured man onto a stretcher, and if you are suggesting that I have made up the accident that I witnessed for the purpose of making a point then I truly despair. Tom is undoubtably right - this is no time for bickering..but I remain firm in my conviction that it is high time to raise concern.

Arrabbiata1 said:

I would like to see a response which prioritises a riders life - (irrespective of today's press release from the host of Dorna apologists) over the commercial interests of what has become a shockingly ineptly run series.

Click to expand...

I also wish to see Dorna prioritize a riders life, but, imo, developed countries have become so intolerant of death and so obsessed with regulating every tragedy that happens in this world that anything less than downplaying the tragedy and denying culpability would expose the institution of GP racing to reprisal from outside forces. If Dorna had given a no-BS assessment of safety procedure in an attempt to put the rider's lives first, I trust the motorcycling community to interpret this disaster and remedy the problem; however, I do not trust the casual fan or outsiders to pass reasonable judgment.



As much as I might like for sorrowful memories of Tomizawa to fuel a powerful push for change (more power than reason alone could supply), I believe that even temporary abandonment of reason would expose the sport to the people who wish to regulate it to further their own ambitions. If reason is not employed, the general public could very well determine that motorcycle racing is to blame for Tomizawa's death and that motorcycle racing is in need of regulation from legislators who know nothing about it. It would take nothing more than a public outcry from the families of slain racers for GP to be well on its way to extinction.



In my opinion, an objective (as objective as humanly possible) assessment of the situation is the only way to remove Butler without exposing the sport to outsiders who would harm the sport out of ignorance. The reason I sided with Barry was simply to say that I believe reasonable judgment exonerates the first response crews as well. What they did may have caused people's blood to boil, but it would be unreasonable to lower the boom on the corner crews when medical reports indicate they were following the proper procedures for treating a trauma patient with poor vitals.



I think we are all on the same page except for whether or not the corner workers were acting appropriately.

mylexicon said:

I think we are all on the same page except for whether or not the corner workers were acting appropriately.

Click to expand...

I agree, and as I just said - regarding the marshals, I agree with Barry, they acted good faith, but in my opinion in the absence of supportive race direction and a red flag to immediately stop the race. Paul Butler is paid to be decisive, to make a decision.



And forgive me Barry, I don't understand where fabrication comes into this? Why must it always be these personal jibes? Please agree to disagree on this occasion.