THE CASE FOR MARQUEZ

Gaz · Oct 31, 2015

michaelm said:
I think Talps is employing his new found sarcasm in describing the cause of MM's bike going down being him head butting Rossi or his bike, or at least I hope so otherwise I am concerned as to his ability to negotiate reality going forward.

Mike, in some very yellow tainted worlds the general rule seems to be that Marquez caused the crash by:

1. Deliberately powering in to Rossi to bring him down
2. By (yes) headbutting Rossi's knee to make it look as though Rossi kicked him

Problem is, that in these yellow worlds these theories have gained tremendous traction such so that they are now considered the gospel factual irrefutable truth.

Try to mention any other possible scenario or apportion any semblance of responsibility (never mind blame) to Rossi and you open a 'can of whoopass' as the assembled hordes abuse to oblivion.

Mr Squiggle · Oct 31, 2015

Jumkie said:
Rossi was too chickenshit to handle his business by racing his way out of it. Answer that my friend, why didn't Rossi RACE his way out of it? The kid schooled his ... and Rossi threw in the towel like a ...... The guy so loved for being the man's man of racing bitched the .... out.

This.

Mr Squiggle · Oct 31, 2015

Jumkie said:
Every single argument against Marquez, bar none, has been built on this notion that Marc was TOYING with Rossi. No, not that he was motivated to BEAT Rossi. And that 'belief' stems from Rossi’s accusations last Thursday. That's it! No accusations, no belief Marquez is toying. In the same way NOBODY thought Marc was toying after Phillip Island. They think they now see every little detail in his life as proof, they knew it all along. He was a title communist! Send me a link to any "expert" racer, journalists, spectators, forum member, casual observer that wrote anything about Marc's attempt to thwart Rossi's title BEFORE last Thursday. Just one. Come up with one solitary soul that said this.

And this!

moto vudu · Oct 31, 2015

I agree with Rossi, Iannone, Ben Spies, Jason Pridmore, Michael Laverty, and Mike Webb. Marc was on track to sabotage a championship and had very little (if any) interest in actually racing. Best part is that Rossi didn't even have crash Marc out (Marc took care of that part himself), unless you believe Rossi has mind powers that can control other riders and force them to turn into him.

I would have lost respect for Rossi if it was Dani vs Marc for the championship and Rossi was trying to sabotage Marc's race. That's just something you don't do. Regardless if Rossi or Lorenzo wins the championship, it's good that Marc has lost it since he certainly doesn't deserve it.

Mr Squiggle · Oct 31, 2015

moto vudu said:
I agree with Rossi, Iannone, Ben Spies, Jason Pridmore, Michael Laverty, and Mike Webb. Marc was on track to sabotage a championship and had very little (if any) interest in actually racing.

Please provide a link to any comments that back up their statements about Marquez favouring Lorenzo and trying to thwart Rossis championship before the Sepang round.

Gaz · Oct 31, 2015

moto vudu said:
I agree with Rossi, Iannone, Ben Spies, Jason Pridmore, Michael Laverty, and Mike Webb. Marc was on track to sabotage a championship and had very little (if any) interest in actually racing. Best part is that Rossi didn't even have crash Marc out (Marc took care of that part himself), unless you believe Rossi has mind powers that can control other riders and force them to turn into him.

I would have lost respect for Rossi if it was Dani vs Marc for the championship and Rossi was trying to sabotage Marc's race. That's just something you don't do. Regardless if Rossi or Lorenzo wins the championship, it's good that Marc has lost it since he certainly doesn't deserve it.

You do need to think before you post

Mike Webb?

Seriously.

Show me where he said that Marquez was 'out to sabotage Rossi's Championship' as you wish to assert.

He said nothing of the type and so by adding him to your statement you show that you cannot be taken seriously with the posting as you are not reading statements from people but including them because maybe, just maybe your need for 'Rossi good/Marquez bad' type of comment exceeds your desire to fact check.

MotoGP race director Mike Webb believes both Valentino Rossi and Marc Marquez were at fault in today’s controversial Sepang MotoGP round while stewards have rejected Yamaha’s appeal against The Doctor’s penalty.

Webb said he believes the contact from Rossi which ended with Marquez crashing was deliberate but upheld Rossi’s claims that Marquez was deliberately trying to affect Rossi’s pace.

“From what we have seen from the video evidence and from talking to both riders, there is obviously a difference of opinion,” said Webb, speaking at the track.

“We believe the action of Rossi is a deliberate attempt to run Marquez very side or even off the track. He says he had no intention of causing a crash but it ended in a crash.

“We have also taken into account a lot of what Rossi says about Marquez deliberately slowing the pace and affect Rossi’s race. We believe there is some merit in that and there is fault on both sides.

“From a rules point of view, Marquez’ passes were clean, he didn’t make contact so he didn’t break any rules. Perhaps the spirit of our championship would prefer riders didn’t do this but some do and it is not against the rules.

“Rossi reacted in frustration and the final action he made was against the rules.”

You will see that the very same Mike Webb you quote (and who does not use the word sabotage nor championship but race with reference to Marquez) also states explicitly that Rossi was at fault and deliberately run Marquez wide.

Now, you cannot have it both ways.

If he is the spoken gospel truth that Marquez rode to impact Rossi's race (I say race, you say championship) that in fairness he is also the gospel spoken truth that says Rossi is to blame.

Which is it?

moto vudu · Oct 31, 2015

Mr Squiggle said:
Please provide a link to any comments that back up their statements about Marquez favouring Lorenzo and trying to thwart Rossis championship before the Sepang round.

Iannone was in agreement with Rossi that Marc was intentionally slowing down at PI. Ben Spies posted on his twitter that anyone that doesn't think Marc was clearly faster than Rossi at PI and Sepang is crazy. Everyone else I mentioned commented on Marc's actions at Sepang.

Jumkie · Oct 31, 2015

What rider in the MotoGP grid should be allowed to take another out because he 'perceived' (as a standard) to be impeded in his efforts to gain points? Name one.

michaelm · Oct 31, 2015

moto vudu said:
I agree with Rossi, Iannone, Ben Spies, Jason Pridmore, Michael Laverty, and Mike Webb. Marc was on track to sabotage a championship and had very little (if any) interest in actually racing. Best part is that Rossi didn't even have crash Marc out (Marc took care of that part himself), unless you believe Rossi has mind powers that can control other riders and force them to turn into him.

I would have lost respect for Rossi if it was Dani vs Marc for the championship and Rossi was trying to sabotage Marc's race. That's just something you don't do. Regardless if Rossi or Lorenzo wins the championship, it's good that Marc has lost it since he certainly doesn't deserve it.

Gaz said:
Mike, in some very yellow tainted worlds the general rule seems to be that Marquez caused the crash by:

1. Deliberately powering in to Rossi to bring him down
2. By (yes) headbutting Rossi's knee to make it look as though Rossi kicked him

Problem is, that in these yellow worlds these theories have gained tremendous traction such so that they are now considered the gospel factual irrefutable truth.

Try to mention any other possible scenario or apportion any semblance of responsibility (never mind blame) to Rossi and you open a 'can of whoopass' as the assembled hordes abuse to oblivion.

I am well aware some of these people are reality challenged, as you know I have been debating their ilk on this forum. I do strive to keep my own posts somewhat sensible, although I am obviously not incapable of sophistry in response to same.

(Sorry Gaz, the iPhone catches me again, I thought I was replying to a post from Jumkie, but you both made the same point which I think is largely correct).

moto vudu · Oct 31, 2015

Gaz said:
You do need to think before you post

Mike Webb?

Seriously.

Show me where he said that Marquez was 'out to sabotage Rossi's Championship' as you wish to assert.

He said nothing of the type and so by adding him to your statement you show that you cannot be taken seriously with the posting as you are not reading statements from people but including them because maybe, just maybe your need for 'Rossi good/Marquez bad' type of comment exceeds your desire to fact check.

MotoGP race director Mike Webb believes both Valentino Rossi and Marc Marquez were at fault in today’s controversial Sepang MotoGP round while stewards have rejected Yamaha’s appeal against The Doctor’s penalty.

Webb said he believes the contact from Rossi which ended with Marquez crashing was deliberate but upheld Rossi’s claims that Marquez was deliberately trying to affect Rossi’s pace.

“From what we have seen from the video evidence and from talking to both riders, there is obviously a difference of opinion,” said Webb, speaking at the track.

“We believe the action of Rossi is a deliberate attempt to run Marquez very side or even off the track. He says he had no intention of causing a crash but it ended in a crash.

“We have also taken into account a lot of what Rossi says about Marquez deliberately slowing the pace and affect Rossi’s race. We believe there is some merit in that and there is fault on both sides.

“From a rules point of view, Marquez’ passes were clean, he didn’t make contact so he didn’t break any rules. Perhaps the spirit of our championship would prefer riders didn’t do this but some do and it is not against the rules.

“Rossi reacted in frustration and the final action he made was against the rules.”

You will see that the very same Mike Webb you quote (and who does not use the word sabotage nor championship but race with reference to Marquez) also states explicitly that Rossi was at fault and deliberately run Marquez wide.

Now, you cannot have it both ways.

If he is the spoken gospel truth that Marquez rode to impact Rossi's race (I say race, you say championship) that in fairness he is also the gospel spoken truth that says Rossi is to blame.

Which is it?

The word "sabotage" was my word, however Webb's quote:

“Despite what Marquez said we think he was deliberately trying to affect the pace of Valentino."

can be interpreted as sabotage since that implies Marc was not racing and was out there to affect Rossi's pace.

Gaz · Oct 31, 2015

Just to continue a bit

Ben Spies.
Yes he does say that Marquez was playing with Rossi but he ALSO states 'Gonna be interesting.@marcmarquez93 asked for it the whole race and @ValeYellow46 intentionally gave it to him, so both riders are at fault'

He also said.
There's no question @marcmarquez93 was asking for it and there's no question that @ValeYellow46 took him out. Maybe didn't mean to, but did'

Note. my highlighting and emphasis on the important words - words which could be read that he agrees with Race Control's reading of the situation (and yes, I have deleted other posts/tweets)

Now the fact is that there are split comments, so just as you wish to pick the possible critical ones (and I still read Spies as supporting the decision against Rossi, and calling for action against Marquez) others could readily pick comments that are seen to be damaging to Rossi

moto vudu · Oct 31, 2015

Jumkie said:
What rider in the MotoGP grid should be allowed to take another out because he 'perceived' (as a standard) to be impeded in his efforts to gain points? Name one.

What rider on the MotoGP grid should be allowed to attack the integrity of the sport by engaging in race fixing because he's upset that he is losing his title. Name one.

Jumkie · Oct 31, 2015

moto vudu said:
Iannone was in agreement with Rossi that Marc was intentionally slowing down at PI. Ben Spies posted on his twitter that anyone that doesn't think Marc was clearly faster than Rossi at PI and Sepang is crazy. Everyone else I mentioned commented on Marc's actions at Sepang.

When did Spies make this comment? And, do you think Ben Spies saying this is proof that Marquez was toying with Rossi?

Jumkie · Oct 31, 2015

moto vudu said:
What rider on the MotoGP grid should be allowed to attack the integrity of the sport by engaging in race fixing because he's upset that he is losing his title. Name one.

Answer my question, then I'll answer yours.

Mr Squiggle · Oct 31, 2015

moto vudu said:
Iannone was in agreement with Rossi that Marc was intentionally slowing down at PI. Ben Spies posted on his twitter that anyone that doesn't think Marc was clearly faster than Rossi at PI and Sepang is crazy. Everyone else I mentioned commented on Marc's actions at Sepang.

I said BEFORE Sepang....dont read so good?

moto vudu · Oct 31, 2015

Jumkie said:
When did Spies make this comment? And, do you think Ben Spies saying this is proof that Marquez was toying with Rossi?

Ben was active on twitter after the race and that's when I read his tweets. I think Spies knows more about racing than everyone on this forum, so his comments hold a lot of weight (at least to me they do). However when it comes to proof, I believe that's where Race Direction comes into play. Maybe after the season is over (or after the results of Rossi's appeal) they will let us know exactly what they discovered that let them to believe Marc was deliberately trying to affect Rossi's pace.

moto vudu · Nov 1, 2015

Mr Squiggle said:
I said BEFORE Sepang....dont read so good?

Apparently you're struggle with reading because PI (Iannone's comments) was before Sepang. I very clearly stated the other comments were in regard to Marc's actions at Sepang. Spies commented on the PI race after the incident at Sepang.

Cool Blue · Nov 1, 2015

moto vudu said:
Iannone was in agreement with Rossi that Marc was intentionally slowing down at PI. Ben Spies posted on his twitter that anyone that doesn't think Marc was clearly faster than Rossi at PI and Sepang is crazy. Everyone else I mentioned commented on Marc's actions at Sepang.

Ah... hmmm, ok: it must be true then.

So Iannone shares Rossi's opinion about MM's intentions.

Why would he do that if he didn't have access to mind-reading gear and absolutely knew it for a fact? Fair enough!

Oh, wait, Iannone is Italian right? There wouldn't be any repercussions for him if he refused to back Rossi would there? Nah, surely not...

But OK, let's allow all that... where does that leave us? Did MM break any rules?

michaelm · Nov 1, 2015

moto vudu said:
Iannone was in agreement with Rossi that Marc was intentionally slowing down at PI. Ben Spies posted on his twitter that anyone that doesn't think Marc was clearly faster than Rossi at PI and Sepang is crazy. Everyone else I mentioned commented on Marc's actions at Sepang.

Straw man in any case. The question was really "before Rossi's press conference last Thirsday".

I could claim it is equally obvious that Iannone only made his statement after being reprieved by Rossi from his personal lynch mob and on a promise of a Yamaha factory ride with the same level of evidence as you have for what you claim is obvious.

If MM was impeding Valentino by racing him, the option was open to Valentino to respond by outracing MM anyway as has been said, and he could have avoided all threat to his lead by staying in front of Jorge in the first place.

Mr Squiggle · Nov 1, 2015

moto vudu said:
Apparently you're struggle with reading because PI (Iannone's comments) was before Sepang. I very clearly stated the other comments were in regard to Marc's actions at Sepang. Spies commented on the PI race after the incident at Sepang.

Awesome....could you please provide me with a link to Iannone's comments so I can check the date and time they were made.

Cheers.

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THE CASE FOR MARQUEZ

Gaz

Mr Squiggle

Mr Squiggle

moto vudu

Mr Squiggle

Gaz

moto vudu

Jumkie

michaelm

moto vudu

Gaz

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Jumkie

Jumkie

Mr Squiggle

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Cool Blue

michaelm

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