Joined Oct 2006
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Your Mom's House
Suzuka 8hr 2015
- Thread starter Rising Sun
- Start date
Joined Oct 2012
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Crab Key
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
I've heard of the supposed "myth", during the recent Toyota recall debacle, they mentioned Gary Schwartz and mention a tactic called 'paper inundation.' Reminds me of the "scientists" who counter Global Warming.
Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
It is not remotely in the same category as Climate denialists. Seriously, have a read, as it examines the circumstances of the Pinto case, the state of contemporary engineering, etc.
I am not promoting the paper as a counterpoint as much as showing a good example of some of the decision making processes around recalls, which still resonate today.
(btw Which Toyota recall?)
(Also, did you see that your Senate voted down criminal sanctions for Auto Execs involved in recall cover-ups? )
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Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Dr. No, perhaps, though in my defense I said "it reminds me of", you may be right, not in the same category, I don't pretend to know much about the Pinto case. I just believe these ........ are ......... Ford has lawyered up, so when it comes to exposing entrenched big business, they have decided gross lobsided advantage. The mothafucking governmental agencies tasked to protect the consumer is often the executives' extended lobby arm. The wolves now guard the hen house. When u mentioned his name, i just remembered reading or hearing about the Schwartz bloke defending Ford. My bias is I err on the premise that big business executives are sitting around a table, along with some elected officials, figuring out how to fleece the public. I may be wrong.
You don't recall the big news item of Toyota accelerators getting stuck causing accidents? Was big news here.
No, I didn't hear about the executives immunity, it was probably buried by the "news" program directors who are likely golfing buddies with manufacturer executives. But I wouldn't doubt it, how many bankers were charged and jailed for the banking crisis of 08? The 1%ers are all cut from the same .... cloth imho.
You don't recall the big news item of Toyota accelerators getting stuck causing accidents? Was big news here.
No, I didn't hear about the executives immunity, it was probably buried by the "news" program directors who are likely golfing buddies with manufacturer executives. But I wouldn't doubt it, how many bankers were charged and jailed for the banking crisis of 08? The 1%ers are all cut from the same .... cloth imho.
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Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
The Toyota thing was me being facetious....first floormats, then accelerator pedals, then it spread to brake modules and other cars....good times!
I have been involved in many recall committees, all I can say is it's the culture of the company and the committee that really matters. You need a culture where people come forward with concerns, and those concerns are properly addressed. It can be good, and open; or one where no one wants to be holding the bag (career limiting move)... And this .... comes from the top. New boss, and the complexion of the committee can completely change.
Look at the bloody Valukas Report into the GM Ignition recall. Non-independent report that absolved (most) of very senior management (highest guy left for "family" reasons before the .... hit the fan) and blamed Engineers and Processes....ignoring that the culture was such that no one wanted the hot potato. And deflected, delayed and ignored it. Not to mention that they couldn't even decide whether a car shutting down unexpectedly was an safety concern or not.....ffs
I have been involved in many recall committees, all I can say is it's the culture of the company and the committee that really matters. You need a culture where people come forward with concerns, and those concerns are properly addressed. It can be good, and open; or one where no one wants to be holding the bag (career limiting move)... And this .... comes from the top. New boss, and the complexion of the committee can completely change.
Look at the bloody Valukas Report into the GM Ignition recall. Non-independent report that absolved (most) of very senior management (highest guy left for "family" reasons before the .... hit the fan) and blamed Engineers and Processes....ignoring that the culture was such that no one wanted the hot potato. And deflected, delayed and ignored it. Not to mention that they couldn't even decide whether a car shutting down unexpectedly was an safety concern or not.....ffs
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
I don't think the answer is making the circuits dangerous it's more a case of penalising them for going beyond the circuit boundaries.
Gather them all together and go "Oi! See these white lines? Cross them and you get a ride through"
Gather them all together and go "Oi! See these white lines? Cross them and you get a ride through"
Not so sure that would work if Gobert was still around ................ he may just do a Robbie Fowler
Figured I would get that in before anyone else .................. and man it hurt :cry:
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Well you amongst others of course
Mind you, what scared me more is I remembered the pommy soccer (we are in Oz and it is bloody soccer) players name
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Haha, I love how we go off on tangents while waiting for some racing news. Thanks 22 for keeping this thread on track. While I was reading the results I really did get a sense that this event is interesting. Lots of memories in those names. The all Jap team doesn't have a chance. Kagayama, Haga, and Kiyonari, are relics. Poor Haga, he got robbed of a Wsbk title. Nice to know Rathapark Wilairot is still getting picked up to ride, I'm just happy he is alive.
Anybody remember when Katsuyuki Nakasuga raced in GP and scored a podium. It was a wet track. Valencia? Motegi? Anyway peeps were crashing like teenagers after a rave. Pedro won but I remember hoping Pedro would crash so this Jap rider would win, as he came in 2nd. He was crying on the podium as people cheered. Great genuine moment. (I think that's my memory).
Jesus where is Geo. We need some video.
Anybody remember when Katsuyuki Nakasuga raced in GP and scored a podium. It was a wet track. Valencia? Motegi? Anyway peeps were crashing like teenagers after a rave. Pedro won but I remember hoping Pedro would crash so this Jap rider would win, as he came in 2nd. He was crying on the podium as people cheered. Great genuine moment. (I think that's my memory).
Jesus where is Geo. We need some video.
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