Good post, Gaz.
I thought the replacement of gravel traps with concrete aprons was at the behest of (.......) brrooom brroom car racing. No more stopping races to pull cars out of the gravel and spoiling the tv coverage
I think the main reason was that the tarmac is now 'high friction' and designed to slow a car in a more controlled way. The main argument against gravel traps in formula car racing was it often caused cars to flip over and over.
Well yes, common knowledge, No? But it doesn't work for motorcycle racing. I think they should penisize anybody who uses the runoffs like this with a 30 sec penisalty. Like say the loss from actual gravel (well sorta). That way when MurderMac uses it to dive bomb, he goes into it knowing if he screws up, it will cost him the position.
Agreed, the pro safety brigade often construe these sort of comments as "oh you just want more deaths" when that isn't true. Why do I watch bike racing over cars? Because more often than not on bikes, the penalty outweighs the crime. If you lock a front wheel in a car you might lose a few tenths or run a bit wide. On a bike, you're eating tarmac..end of.
Take this pic as an example, the black marks clearly show that this is being used
as the racing line :
F1 has cracked down on the age old ruling now that states "If a car consistently puts more than 2 wheels outside the white lines it will have been deemed to have left the track and will be penalised" I remember in Austria when the GP came back in the late 90's. Turn 1 was a gravel trap then I think in about 2003/4 they changed it for tarmac, and people were literally running about 20 metres off the 'track' into this area and gaining huge amounts of time, it was ridiculous. Yes they are racers and it's all about going fast but WITHIN THE TRACK LIMITS.
As far as Sic, I'm bummed when I think of him. I liked him and also recognized he was out of control often. I just feel the system also failed these guys. Had RD been doing their job, heavy handed sanctions would of helped. Now look at them, suddenly they're getting "serious " with riders meandering on the race line. Meanwhile open season on torpedoing as long as it's 'on the last lap'. Logic failure.
The problem with Sic was, because he was branded just as MM is now and that Verstappen .... in F1, as 'fresh blood' and 'exciting', RD were torn because if they slapped him down they would be told they weren't allowing racing etc etc. While Simoncelli was reprimanded at times, both he and the press literally laughed it off at that press conference when Jorge tried to seriously say that if things didn't calm down, someone was going to get hurt. When action could have been taken it wasn't, then when sadly that moment did come, the very same people that laughed off Jorge's comments just months earlier are screaming from the rooftops about increasing safety.
That said, Sic's accident was imo just unlucky and not a result of him being crazy.
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But calls for less safety (given the aprons aren't a safety measure) are dumb.
It's a fine line isn't it? I think as other have said, the main issue now is some riders have no respect for what can happen because things are so much safer than they used to be. The issue with seeing divebombing etc in MotoGP, is that it's seen by many, influences many and filters down to the lower classes with a 'Well MM does it, so why can't I? attitide"
But the solution is simple, just put back the bloody gravel. Motorcyle racing shouldn't have tocontort itself just so cars get better tv....
Agreed, the issue would police itself then.
They just parked a crane on a wet hot track causing the death of a driver.
'sad'
That's right. F1 tried to blame Bianchi by releasing the speeds through the corner, yet we learned he had slowed and that other riders had taken the corner in similar fashion, while some even faster. We simply can't put it all on the competitors because they're in the heat of battle.
I know we've butted heads before on this, but I have to disagree. Without forgetting that this is the Suzuka 8 hrs thread Bianchi was to blame for his accident. Earlier on you (rightly) criticise divebombing and also crossing corner exit lines adding that they should get a 30s penalty from RD if they do so. By that you are in essense saying the responsibility of not divebombing and not crossing corner exit lines lies with the competitor in
the heat of battle, yet in the case of obeying yellow flags as at the Japanese GP 2014 you are saying 'we can't put it all on the competitors' because they're in the heat of battle? It's either one way or not.
Yes, I do feel strongly about this. I've been involved in racing all my life and have seen countless, and sadly been involved in incidents where drivers other than myself have not obeyed flag signals from the marshalls what are their for the competitors and officials safety. Having seen the yellow flag rule touted for years, Japan 2014 was going to happen sooner or later. Before every race I've ever done, you sign a declaration stating you have read and understand the flag colours and rules. Waved yellow flags, the ruling of which states clearly "CEASE RACING, there is an incident ahead with objects and/or marshalls on the track, slow down, be prepared to make a change in racing line and BE PREPARED TO STOP"
Ignorance (I.e. the heat of battle) is NOT an excuse and in a yellow flag situation, the 'battle' has or is supposed to have ceased. These competitors are not old age pensioners popping down to pick up some milk, they are highly paid and supposedly very skilled athletes and if they cannot adhere to basic instructions while racing they shouldn't be racing full stop. I don't think it's about that, it's more because we've had the luxury on increased safety that they bacame ignorant to the dangers, and sadly it cost one driver his life.
It's irrelevant that there was a tractor recovering a car, had all the drivers obeyed the yellow flag to the spirit of what it's intended, instead of seeing it as a way to gain some time, this incident wouldn't have happened. People forget the tractor was at the very edge of the circuit, not in the middle of the racing line and some 70-100m away from where Bianchi lost control. I do wonder if such a fuss would have been made had instead of himself, he'd killed some helpless marshall/s who were doing nothing wrong.
Driver have abused the yellow flag rule for years, they kept getting away with it and it's eventually bitten back. I bet you a lot of the F1 driver would now think twice before blasting through a waved yellow.
My point was more that if you want guys to stop abusing track limits, or stretching the boundaries, the quickest way to stop that would be to make them less safe.
RD does nothing to deter the volume of sheer stupidity on display every race weekend as you mention.
When the danger was real, the riders and drivers in most series understood to try and avoid putting competitors at risk. Now that the danger has been minimized so greatly, no one cares about safe riding. MM just uses the old battering ram approach for this reason.
Good post, It's called respect.
Absolutely. Classic and graphic example of the danger posed by gravel was Toni Elias breaking his tibia at Assen.
And Gugliano at Laguna last Sunday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtJ92XqRWIk
