<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jan 20 2008, 07:45 PM)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I stand by what I said, there have been a plethora of reasons given by Rossi fans as to why Stoner did not earn his WC, or at the least to downplay the achievement.
Really? What I've seen is a few young very eager fans that came out with a few unbalanced posts. Otherwise you got guys like me and Roger who give credit to Stoner and think the title is well earned. We also give credit to Ducati and Bridgestone, just like 99% of all commentators, experts, jourous and anyone else with the slightest interest of the sport, but already there yours, and others, paranoia for anyone taking anything away from your new idol are blooming.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>It is probably due in part to the close finsish in 06 whereby many Rossi fans felt Hayden did not deserve his win, and I guess that momentum of ill feeling toward other competitors has merely carried on into the next year ( 07 ) even with the insurmountable proof supplied by Stoner that he indeed dominated this years competition. We have all manners of reasons why Rossi did not win, but there seems little real thought to any valid or even partially justifiable reasons why.
I think you are wrong, the victory were so crushing that there were nothing to be annoyed about really, just resigned as a fan. That's at least how I felt, together with genuine admiration towards stoner btw.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Nobody ..... not even Stoner or Rossi or Pedrosa or any of there mechanics can say who has the most "helpful" TC ....... programming of TC would be a very guarded secret ...... thats GP .... its about finding an innovation and then applying it. SO to say Stoner's TC helped him the most is a ridiculous statement ........ to go further one can easily see why such ridiculous statements have gotten such discussion ...... its another way of playing down the achievement of a rider who has beaten the rider that many fans believed is the rider who was to have won.
Paranoia flashing again.
Well, you might not find it interesting, but the rest of the world do think that going from being called Crashy, well deservedly so, to crush all competition is remarkable and almost too good to be true.
To explain that with maturing or what ever you want just doesn't cut it. There is more to it, and in a boring off season we want to discuss it. Even a few stoner fans want to, but any attempt to suggest an explanation of his miracle recovery from '06 is pushed away as envious Rossi fans. If that's all you can contribute with it's very sad, and as I said before, quite paranoid.
I'm not even very convinced that stoner had such a huge advantage with his TC and for most here it's not the point at all. The point is how you everyone forced into that "grip zone" stoner described so well and thereby forcing every one to keep the same line out of the turns. If you remember it was not at all that many races where the leader took of in the horizon last year, but even with less than a second between the top 3 it became boring as it stayed that way from start to end, unless some one got too much tire wear and dropped off. And that’s exactly what we sat waiting for; who would loose the grip to create a change. Exciting, not. So again, not even much a stoner thing at all, but even here your paranoia jump through.
I've lost count of how many times I've said Rossi had the best bike when he was with Honda, maybe except from the Criville influenced 500 in his first year.
I've also lost count of how many times you've brushed away any suggestions regarding advantages that Stoner might have had with some kind of "let's have another go at those puny Rossi fans" attack.
Of course most of it is just ridiculous and based on the paranoia and thereby should preferably be ignored, but unfortunately it's enough to twist the thread to just another stoner vs rossi tread. again.
And again what could have been an interesting technical discussion turn into kindergarten.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>But the main thing I hope we see this year is a bit more of the old Rossi, with the tenacity he used to have ...... something that he did not exhibit as much in 07 as he did in previous years. Unlike many I don't fell that this takes one little thing away from him, he is still a top 3 rider in the top formula ..... thats pretty good. Now had Rossi come out earlier and said, we just have to get better with setting up our bike, to match Stoner and Pedrosa, then it would have been an honourable reply and reason for the unforfilled expectations in 07, but to start saying:
........ other riders are on better bikes ............ ( nobody knows this nor given that each bike has been very painstakingly set developed and setup for each rider ) ....... adhoc comparisons may appease some but are merely an acceptable pointless distraction for others
Well, if we start from the beginning only the blinds questioned the ducati’s acceleration and top speed advantage. That said, stoner was the one to make it work pretty good in the corners as well.
Should anyone be able to give a qualified opinion about what is the better bike I wold say Rossi is the man. Not only because of his record and experience but most of all because of all the times he has been right behind (and a few times in front of) Stoner last year.
Maybe Stoner just went from Crashy to THE miracle man that can do miles better than a 7 time champion at the blink of an eye. But I don't think so, and I like to discuss possible reasons for why he did this huge leap last year. But of course, that's in your paranoid mind another attempt to take away from stoner again.
Btw, Rossi 3rd? earlier he was 5th wasn't it, and old man over the top...
But then again, ........ walks, doesn't it
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I comment on these threads because I like to see a good ride and a good rider put together races and maybe a WC at the end ...... and Rossi was great to see at his best.
If that's why you write here it sure as hell doesn't show.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>But I do find all of these suggestions that another rider ( Stoner in 07 and Hayden in 06 ) did not really deserve their win whether by implication or whatever, quite demeaning to all riders out there.
Again, you put to much into things, few think that any one but stoner would have won last year, without putting him in major disadvantage, BUT most of us have a hard time understanding how that result didn't end as a victory but totally crushing the competition.
And just a little bit insight to a riders mind: If they don't think they can cut it, they must quit. In other words, if rossi, as multi wc, thought he was beaten straight up by stoner he would quit. Without the belief that you are the best, at what ever level, you won't ever be a winner.
They are all as egocentric as they get when it come to the sport, the only real difference are how honest they are towards others and how good they are at PR.
So what Rossi, Pedrosa, Stoner, Hayden, Lorenzo all mean is not a secret, they all think they are the best in world, that’s all. It just comes out in different ways among them.
Also let's not forget that they doesn't exactly give out press-releases or stand on the soap box, they are hunted by journous that nag about all sorts of silly questions but most of all those that hurt the most when they didn't live up to expectations and those that give them a chance to rationalize the loss, and we hear the result or often an edited or translated result all in the name of making headlines, and some here are so ungraceful as to call them whiners. Shame on you all.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Even so I can't blame Rossi ...... even if I am correct and he is no longer at his peak ... it would be very difficult for him to see, perhaps in 10 years when he is somewhat removed from the "thick" of competition can he evaluate this. I am older and I have long ago been though situations whereby I no longer am willing to do some things, I now like to think we just get more "sensible" with age, or perhaps bones are brittler, or lounge chairs more enticing
and hence are not as "gung ho" as we were once. This to me is where Rossi is at, I may be wrong, but I assess watching him ride and watching the results.
I know a guy who
raced super bike at the age of 63. You sound like a very concervative “old before the age” andI find it hard to belive that rossi is there at 27. I suspect Rossi will be closer to doing SB when he's 63 than being as oooold as you sound. That doesn't mean he will be around in the world arena for another 10 years but I don't think he is at your level, or ever get there. Hell, I didn't even start racing until I was 5 years older than Rossi are now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>GP bikes were allways handy as a development formula and the fact that they were so "mechano" and adjustable made them the most efficient formula for motorcycle companies to find new inovations that often would be incorporated on production machines. Electronics surround us in todays world and many inovations in electronics benefit us. If such a currently prominent area of inovation as electronics and TC is banned ....... where will these things be developed and tested to such accuracy and obvious effect by results ..... if not motogp.
And your point was?
And of course electronics will never be banned, we need ignition and injection control. I suspect that at most just certain IO will be banned.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Do you really want to have your fututre bikes ignore the benefits to be gained by testing ways manufacturers have found to make them better? We could still have drum brakes, cable clutches, wire spoked wheels, contact breaker ignitions, lawnmower carburetors etc. etc. etc. Its innovation ... motogp has allways been a great way to inovate....... for the sake of the future of motogp I hope the FIM hold off Dorna. Banning TC and electronics may appease the fans for the next few years ..... but then for the next 10 years??
Hell, why not go all they way, compressors, turbo, different fuels, no weight limits, oval cylinders ...............
The list is endless of innovations that could be improved from today’s level of usability on bikes and still we have all these rules that stop it from happening. Why? safety and cost amongst others, but most of all to get a level playing field where we can see the best bikes and the best riders in exciting battles. But there were little of that last year, although I recognize that there probably where several factors that played a role last year. We'll see this year how it develops, if it's just as boring I would like to see an attempt without TC or maybe a control tire.
So in the end, why should TC be such a holly cow?
Is it just me, or are you and others in total denial to any advantages Stoner might have had and at the same time strongly oppose to ALL rule changes that might take those suspected advantages away?
Do we see the real double standards here? Just a thought
But don't worry, TC is here to stay, and expect to see it on a road bike near you very soon. Just like all other tested technology it's carefully weighed and if worthy implemented in the commercial market regardless of banned in racing or not. It's not like turbos are exactly uncommon in family cars these days is it?
