Support Electronics Ban

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 16 2008, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why do you feel that direct throttle is too restrictive?

No basis outside of my personal interest and understanding. Principally i just want control components to be avoided at all costs so that we can have more of the technological development that has made motogp so facinating recently. Obviously the technology will need to be restricted though, but where the line is drawn is a tough call for anyone to make.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 17 2008, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No basis outside of my personal interest and understanding. Principally i just want control components to be avoided at all costs so that we can have more of the technological development that has made motogp so facinating recently. Obviously the technology will need to be restricted though, but where the line is drawn is a tough call for anyone to make.
Although I can see your point, IMO electronic throttle control (to any extent) should not be part of racing. Apparently the electronics completely control two cylinders and the riders have resticted control of the other two in order to allow them to feel the connection to the tyre. Presumably, if we keep on down this track the electronics will control the throttle, full stop. This would be akin to UAV racing and I'm not sure it'd make a good spectacle.

Like you, I am fascinated by the technology, but this is a racing series first and foremost. Even F1, belated, has realised this. Without the riders/drivers being the dominant part, there's nothing to see unless you understand the technology and know in detail what technology is in use (i.e. are directly involved with the engineering development of a bike/car for a particular team).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 17 2008, 02:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Although I can see your point, IMO electronic throttle control (to any extent) should not be part of racing. Apparently the electronics completely control two cylinders and the riders have resticted control of the other two in order to allow them to feel the connection to the tyre. Presumably, if we keep on down this track the electronics will control the throttle, full stop. This would be akin to UAV racing and I'm not sure it'd make a good spectacle.

Like you, I am fascinated by the technology, but this is a racing series first and foremost. Even F1, belated, has realised this. Without the riders/drivers being the dominant part, there's nothing to see unless you understand the technology and know in detail what technology is in use (i.e. are directly involved with the engineering development of a bike/car for a particular team).

I do agree that full electronic control is too much, that was a problem in F1 but now they have enforced the control ECU which i hate so perhaps i'm too hard to please. As long as i wanna watch the racing and wanna know the tech i guess they are getting it right enough for me

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 17 2008, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I do agree that full electronic control is too much, that was a problem in F1 but now they have enforced the control ECU which i hate so perhaps i'm too hard to please. As long as i wanna watch the racing and wanna know the tech i guess they are getting it right enough for me
I don't think so.

As I said, direct throttle and engine maps per gear only. Still allows development of many aspects of electronic control, and nothing as simplistic as a control ECU required.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 17 2008, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No basis outside of my personal interest and understanding. Principally i just want control components to be avoided at all costs so that we can have more of the technological development that has made motogp so facinating recently. Obviously the technology will need to be restricted though, but where the line is drawn is a tough call for anyone to make.

To me the throttle control is like the other major parts of riding the bike, including gear shift, braking and steering. As they have fly by wire they could just as well have ABS, automatic shifts and auto weight sift on the bike. Not as much to gain as with the fly by wire throttle but in principle the same thing, taking control away from the rider. Electronic aids does not have a place in racing, electronics for improving power, torque and creating engines with ridability, yes. I can even go along with some electronic control of the suspension, as this is not something the rider can influence a lot, but the fly by wire should be gone. Alone it doesn't make too much difference as they can control power partly with cutting ignition but in a new electronic regulation package it would be important to remove.

Thats Kocinski's bike ......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmnkMRP3DIs

new Riders aids !!


PFFT !!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 21 2008, 02:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thats Kocinski's bike ......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmnkMRP3DIs

new Riders aids !!


PFFT !!

I don't get it. Whatever language that is, i don't speak it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 21 2008, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't get it. Whatever language that is, i don't speak it.
I take it he's suggesting that electronic aids weren't the revelation of 2007, because a 1994 Cagiva 500 was already chock full of them. But it's BarryMachine; it could be anything!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 18 2008, 08:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To me the throttle control is like the other major parts of riding the bike, including gear shift, braking and steering.
Babelfish, did you ever come across Doohan's comments on Biaggi during the 1998 season; where Biaggi shocked everyone by winning his first 500 race at Suzuka?

Doohan was 'amazed' that Biaggi could just go 'whack' and open the throttle however and whenever he wanted. Doohan was rueful that his years of perfecting finely-honed throttle control were 'wasted' because the bikes were now so much easier to ride [or perhaps, more to the point, that his advantage was gone].

I sometimes wonder in all these debates about electronics aids if it isn't to some extent just a generational change. Stoner and Pedrosa are the 'new' and Rossi and Capriossi and Hayden et al are the old guys saying, "In my day, it was better, harder, tougher," and so on...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rising Sun @ Feb 21 2008, 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Babelfish, did you ever come across Doohan's comments on Biaggi during the 1998 season; where Biaggi shocked everyone by winning his first 500 race at Suzuka?

Doohan was 'amazed' that Biaggi could just go 'whack' and open the throttle however and whenever he wanted. Doohan was rueful that his years of perfecting finely-honed throttle control were 'wasted' because the bikes were now so much easier to ride [or perhaps, more to the point, that his advantage was gone].

I sometimes wonder in all these debates about electronics aids if it isn't to some extent just a generational change. Stoner and Pedrosa are the 'new' and Rossi and Capriossi and Hayden et al are the old guys saying, "In my day, it was better, harder, tougher," and so on...

I feel like this is very much the case. The new generation always catches and passes the existing forces, and it is almost always met with complaints

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rising Sun @ Feb 22 2008, 04:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I take it he's suggesting that electronic aids weren't the revelation of 2007, because a 1994 Cagiva 500 was already chock full of them.

Was it a 94?? I thought it was 92!! ???

Yes you hit the nail on the head ...... the " Ye Ole Two Strokes" were a mean bit of kip..... and a far cry from the Pure Bhuddist Wholemeal Creations they are made out to be. Matter of fact I'd go as far as to say the only "real 2 stroke with no electronic riders aids" is the Victa 18



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rising Sun @ Feb 22 2008, 04:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But it's BarryMachine; it could be anything!

But I will give you points for this one .....
Seeing as though I came across that clip when I was looking into the "De Angelis is ..." thread

I was thinking ... "meh .. so what if he is ... ... I thought Rossi is purportedly ... anyway?" ..., and he's done ok......., so I did some googling on the topic ....Is Rossi ... ( or thereabouts ) ..... and Mat Oxley kept coming up!!
and I stummbled upon that vid. .... so realistically that vid is an answer to "Is Rossi ...?"



I especially don't understand his motives for that other oxley article ( I think it was a topic in "lounge", the bring back racing/two strokes etc. one ) .... when we look at that vid. Bring back two strokes with no "Riders Aids" ...... does smack a bit of "back in my days ..... "

But then again .... maybe Mr Oxley may have a hidden agenda as well?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 22 2008, 02:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I was thinking ... "meh .. so what if he is ... ... I thought Rossi is purportedly ... anyway?" ..., and he's done ok......., so I did some googling on the topic ....Is Rossi ... ( or thereabouts ) ..... and Mat Oxley kept coming up!!
and I stummbled upon that vid. .... so realistically that vid is an answer to "Is Rossi ...?"

But then again .... maybe Mr Oxley may have a hidden agenda as well?
mmmm....

Googling Rossi + ... + Oxley doesn't find anything related to all three.

But then again .... maybe BarryMachine has a hidden agenda as well.....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 22 2008, 06:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>mmmm....

Googling Rossi + ... + Oxley doesn't find anything related to all three.

But then again .... maybe BarryMachine has a hidden agenda as well.....

Agenda yes, hidden, no.

Well how about that for a turn around .... according to motogp site Criville now likes TC and Espel ... thingo guy says safety commission riders like it including Rossi, Stoner, Capi, Marco, Hoppers ..... think it should stay.

Talk about Hot Potato ....