Walkers not even that impressive on a superbike. He is very entertaining to watch, a great racer and he is quick. But he's never had that edge to make him into a really good rider. I mean he never even wrapped up the british title, and his efforts in world superbikes were constantly average
Superbikes VS MotoGP Which is the premier class ?
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Feb 1 2007, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who are you talking to?
Its me, you, remember, the evil Pete
Oh no I thought you were dead
Only when you are sober Pete
Its me, you, remember, the evil Pete
Oh no I thought you were dead
Only when you are sober Pete
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sb248 @ Feb 1 2007, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>as far as the hardest, most excerting form of mtorcycle racing iam def going to have to say motocross/supercross.
oh and racejumkie i disagree on who has the best motocross, yes ama supercross is the best in the world and yes carmicheal was an enigma but who kicked bubba's ... at the des nations by quite a margin
sb248, I distinctly remember reading your posts and disagreeing with about almost everything you say, was it you that said you hate the "American" way of celebrating, that is what "..... you right off"? So it is news that I would find something to agree with you about. I agree with you that supercross/motocross is the hardest form of motorcycle racing. If you care, you can find my reasons on another thread.
But I think if we are talking "roadracing" then its MotoGP.
To restore balance to the universe, I have to disagree with you about who has the best motocross. Though you admit the US has the best supercrossers, the top guys in this series also race US motocross. So it would follow that the US motocross is the pinnacle series of the sport. The Des Nations is an event. A very important event, but so is the US Open. I'm not sure I would say the winner of one event is the best, but I would if that rider won the series. I think Stewart will win both the US Supercross and Motocross this year. He is clearly the fastest guy, but he does make many mistakes. But over a series, he will come out on top no doubt.
oh and racejumkie i disagree on who has the best motocross, yes ama supercross is the best in the world and yes carmicheal was an enigma but who kicked bubba's ... at the des nations by quite a margin
sb248, I distinctly remember reading your posts and disagreeing with about almost everything you say, was it you that said you hate the "American" way of celebrating, that is what "..... you right off"? So it is news that I would find something to agree with you about. I agree with you that supercross/motocross is the hardest form of motorcycle racing. If you care, you can find my reasons on another thread.
But I think if we are talking "roadracing" then its MotoGP.
To restore balance to the universe, I have to disagree with you about who has the best motocross. Though you admit the US has the best supercrossers, the top guys in this series also race US motocross. So it would follow that the US motocross is the pinnacle series of the sport. The Des Nations is an event. A very important event, but so is the US Open. I'm not sure I would say the winner of one event is the best, but I would if that rider won the series. I think Stewart will win both the US Supercross and Motocross this year. He is clearly the fastest guy, but he does make many mistakes. But over a series, he will come out on top no doubt.
The biggest problem Superbike riders face in MotoGP is the level of competition, then theres the fact that GP bikes require a lot more precision than Superbikes. The small bore GP riders hold all the aces. They also ride machines that require precision and high corner speed to go fast, they do it on the same tracks, and they get more exposure to MotoGP team bosses. Does this make them more talented riders, on average? I don't think so. You're born with talent, it dosent come to you in a works Aprilia package. Ogunski summed it up nicely. There is no superior class, only superior riders. Superbike riders face an uphill battle just to get into motoGP, and it only gets worse once they're there, usually on a lacklustre bike. This, combined with the fact that they're usually half way to a viagra perscription by the time they get to MotoGP, is the reason so many Superbike riders turn out to be "crap" in MotoGP. Young, talented riders can make it in the right circumstances, regardless of thier racing bsackground (Look at our new world champ). Problem is, it's a tough road for a Superbike rider to get to MotoGP and stay there, compared to 250 riders.
On the flipside, GP riders can do relatively well in WSBK from time to time, but I think the Klaffi Honda Barros rode last year was a bit more competitive than the D'antin Duke Hodgson got in 2004. But, as I said before, Superbikes are less precise, so you'd think they forgive small, time-costing mistakes easier than a GP bike.
That aside, MotoGP is still the premier class. Like Pete said, they got all the whirlybang gadgets, like F1. Fortunately, unlike F1, it dosen't send you to sleep. Overall I'd say MotoGP has a more talented grid, but I think that no rider, 250 or Superbike or Moutnain bike or whatever, gets to MotoGP without proving themselves ("Moneybags" Cardoso was the obvious exception). As opposed to 250s and SBK where money can buy you a spot on the grid.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Feb 1 2007, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Edwards destroyed him the last time they were both in supers to take the title, and he's not exactly dominated GP.
Well, that depends on your defenition of "Destroyed". Edwards beat Bayliss 552 points to 541 in 2002, thier last year in SBK together. If you do the maths, that's about a 2% margin. Now, if you look at the 2006 motoGP season, Hayden beat Rossi by 252 points to 247, or a 2% margin. So if Edwards "destroyed" Bayliss in 2002, then Hayden also "destroyed" Rossi in 2006.
Bayliss showed promise in motoGP in his early days, and on a Bridgestone-shod Ducati, things could have been very different for him. But I'm not trying to make excuses here, his main reason for floundering in MotoGP was his attitude. He refused to change his style to suit motoGP. He refused to adapt. Now, I think the guy is an awsome racer, but what the hell? How can you expect sucess in the most competitive roadracing series if you don't even try to adapt? That's why I think his 3 GP years were a bit of a waste. By now, he could have been the world's greatest Superbike racer on paper, not just in my mind. Then again, at least he can say he did it. Sure, he failed, but at least he gave it a good shot, right Carl?
On the flipside, GP riders can do relatively well in WSBK from time to time, but I think the Klaffi Honda Barros rode last year was a bit more competitive than the D'antin Duke Hodgson got in 2004. But, as I said before, Superbikes are less precise, so you'd think they forgive small, time-costing mistakes easier than a GP bike.
That aside, MotoGP is still the premier class. Like Pete said, they got all the whirlybang gadgets, like F1. Fortunately, unlike F1, it dosen't send you to sleep. Overall I'd say MotoGP has a more talented grid, but I think that no rider, 250 or Superbike or Moutnain bike or whatever, gets to MotoGP without proving themselves ("Moneybags" Cardoso was the obvious exception). As opposed to 250s and SBK where money can buy you a spot on the grid.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Feb 1 2007, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Edwards destroyed him the last time they were both in supers to take the title, and he's not exactly dominated GP.
Well, that depends on your defenition of "Destroyed". Edwards beat Bayliss 552 points to 541 in 2002, thier last year in SBK together. If you do the maths, that's about a 2% margin. Now, if you look at the 2006 motoGP season, Hayden beat Rossi by 252 points to 247, or a 2% margin. So if Edwards "destroyed" Bayliss in 2002, then Hayden also "destroyed" Rossi in 2006.
Bayliss showed promise in motoGP in his early days, and on a Bridgestone-shod Ducati, things could have been very different for him. But I'm not trying to make excuses here, his main reason for floundering in MotoGP was his attitude. He refused to change his style to suit motoGP. He refused to adapt. Now, I think the guy is an awsome racer, but what the hell? How can you expect sucess in the most competitive roadracing series if you don't even try to adapt? That's why I think his 3 GP years were a bit of a waste. By now, he could have been the world's greatest Superbike racer on paper, not just in my mind. Then again, at least he can say he did it. Sure, he failed, but at least he gave it a good shot, right Carl?
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Feb 1 2007, 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, that depends on your defenition of "Destroyed". Edwards beat Bayliss 552 points to 541 in 2002, thier last year in SBK together. If you do the maths, that's about a 2% margin. Now, if you look at the 2006 motoGP season, Hayden beat Rossi by 252 points to 247, or a 2% margin. So if Edwards "destroyed" Bayliss in 2002, then Hayden also "destroyed" Rossi in 2006.
Ha-ha, I wonder if Pete will agree and maintain he "destroyed" or will he retract, or perhaps say we “misread” him when he said, "destroyed" now that you put it in terms of Hayden beating Rossi. I'm sure he'll use a crafty backpedal or perhaps he will revert to a witty joke, either way, it will be very amusing to see him try to surgically remove another bad case of foot-in-mouth.
Ha-ha, I wonder if Pete will agree and maintain he "destroyed" or will he retract, or perhaps say we “misread” him when he said, "destroyed" now that you put it in terms of Hayden beating Rossi. I'm sure he'll use a crafty backpedal or perhaps he will revert to a witty joke, either way, it will be very amusing to see him try to surgically remove another bad case of foot-in-mouth.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 2 2007, 03:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ha-ha, I wonder if Pete will agree and maintain he "destroyed" or will he retract, or perhaps say we “misread” him when he said, "destroyed" now that you put it in terms of Hayden beating Rossi. I'm sure he'll use a crafty backpedal or perhaps he will revert to a witty joke, either way, it will be very amusing to see him try to surgically remove another bad case of foot-in-mouth.
Quite simply. When he had to beat him at every race he did. No retraction, no misquote.
Just like Nicky did to Rossi.
Pete
Cant wait to hear what the hidden message in here is.......
Quite simply. When he had to beat him at every race he did. No retraction, no misquote.
Just like Nicky did to Rossi.
Pete
Cant wait to hear what the hidden message in here is.......
I would like to see how Rossi would fare in the other Championships, like WSBK, BSB, AMA. It would be interesting.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Feb 2 2007, 06:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Quite simply. When he had to beat him at every race he did. No retraction, no misquote.
Just like Nicky did to Rossi.
Pete
Cant wait to hear what the hidden message in here is.......
Well, mate, you've got a much more liberal usage of the word "Destroy" in this context than I do. In both the championships it went down to the last race, it was either man's title. I wouldn't say one destroyed the other like that. I'd call what Rossi did in 2005 "Destroying" the competition, but that's just me.
Just like Nicky did to Rossi.
Pete
Cant wait to hear what the hidden message in here is.......
Well, mate, you've got a much more liberal usage of the word "Destroy" in this context than I do. In both the championships it went down to the last race, it was either man's title. I wouldn't say one destroyed the other like that. I'd call what Rossi did in 2005 "Destroying" the competition, but that's just me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Feb 1 2007, 09:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is no superior class, only superior riders.
there is a superior class. it's gp's. & superior riders strive to get to the superior class.
there is a superior class. it's gp's. & superior riders strive to get to the superior class.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Feb 2 2007, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>there is a superior class. it's gp's. & superior riders strive to get to the superior class.
Almost all riders strive to get into the superior class, but only the very best make it, and only the seriously gifted can last/get good results.
Almost all riders strive to get into the superior class, but only the very best make it, and only the seriously gifted can last/get good results.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Feb 2 2007, 01:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, mate, you've got a much more liberal usage of the word "Destroy" in this context than I do. In both the championships it went down to the last race, it was either man's title. I wouldn't say one destroyed the other like that. I'd call what Rossi did in 2005 "Destroying" the competition, but that's just me.
Edwards had to win a shed load of races to come back to win that championship. The first half of that season belonged to Bayliss, but the second half belonged to Colin.
Pete
Edwards had to win a shed load of races to come back to win that championship. The first half of that season belonged to Bayliss, but the second half belonged to Colin.
Pete
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Feb 2 2007, 08:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>there is a superior class. it's gp's. & superior riders strive to get to the superior class.
I agree and disagree with you on this one. I agree that from a machinery/technology standpoint that Motogp is indeed the bees knees. On the other point I do believe that most riders want to be in GP's, however I think it is more complicated than just getting there. An example is Colin Edwards' transition from WSBK to Motogp. He could not get a decent ride from Honda and went with Aprillia. He was just odd an impressive performance just edging out a very worthy Troy Bayliss. Unfortunately the Aprillia was crap, and consequently almost bar-b-qued him for his efforts. My point is that unless you have a favorable bike/tire setup you may be in motogp but you will never be in contention. Top riders realize this and some of them prefer to keep their competitive ride instead of, I'll use a quote from Wesley Snipes' Blade 1 movie "some muthaf%#@&s are always trying to ice skate uphill". I believe that I am right in this opinion and consequently anyone who disagrees with me is a big stupid-head
I agree and disagree with you on this one. I agree that from a machinery/technology standpoint that Motogp is indeed the bees knees. On the other point I do believe that most riders want to be in GP's, however I think it is more complicated than just getting there. An example is Colin Edwards' transition from WSBK to Motogp. He could not get a decent ride from Honda and went with Aprillia. He was just odd an impressive performance just edging out a very worthy Troy Bayliss. Unfortunately the Aprillia was crap, and consequently almost bar-b-qued him for his efforts. My point is that unless you have a favorable bike/tire setup you may be in motogp but you will never be in contention. Top riders realize this and some of them prefer to keep their competitive ride instead of, I'll use a quote from Wesley Snipes' Blade 1 movie "some muthaf%#@&s are always trying to ice skate uphill". I believe that I am right in this opinion and consequently anyone who disagrees with me is a big stupid-head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Feb 2 2007, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My point is that unless you have a favorable bike/tire setup you may be in motogp but you will never be in contention.
ogunski i think this applies to any series. not just motogp. the point is would u rather have a competitive package in gp's? or a competitive package in wsbk? which series would u, as a top rider, want to show off your abilities? the best or 1 of the rest?
ogunski i think this applies to any series. not just motogp. the point is would u rather have a competitive package in gp's? or a competitive package in wsbk? which series would u, as a top rider, want to show off your abilities? the best or 1 of the rest?
It would seem that most are arguing the toss between MotGP and World superbikes. Could it be that theres another class which is the best ?
250cc?
125cc?
AMA?
BSB?
The austrailian series, or any other national series ?
Mini Moto ?
250cc?
125cc?
AMA?
BSB?
The austrailian series, or any other national series ?
Mini Moto ?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Feb 2 2007, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Could it be that theres another class which is the best ?
250cc?
125cc?
AMA?
BSB?
The austrailian series, or any other national series ?
Mini Moto ?
no way man, all of the above are good series,dont no much about mini moto, but are not a premier class,the only one that comes close is wsb but even thats not in the same league imo.
250cc?
125cc?
AMA?
BSB?
The austrailian series, or any other national series ?
Mini Moto ?
no way man, all of the above are good series,dont no much about mini moto, but are not a premier class,the only one that comes close is wsb but even thats not in the same league imo.
I don't even think the superbikes are that close. Motogp is a much much higher level. I think the 250cc class is more comparable to wsbk. But they are so different its hard to tell.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Feb 2 2007, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ogunski i think this applies to any series. not just motogp. the point is would u rather have a competitive package in gp's? or a competitive package in wsbk? which series would u, as a top rider, want to show off your abilities? the best or 1 of the rest?
Of course I concede that a competitive motogp ride is what you want. My assertion is that being in Motogp doesnt necessarily make for a superior rider. Now I say that with the exception of someone like Valentino Rossi, who in my opinion is a rare type of genius that only comes along very rarely.
Of course I concede that a competitive motogp ride is what you want. My assertion is that being in Motogp doesnt necessarily make for a superior rider. Now I say that with the exception of someone like Valentino Rossi, who in my opinion is a rare type of genius that only comes along very rarely.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 1 2007, 07:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ha-ha, I wonder if Pete will agree and maintain he "destroyed" or will he retract, or perhaps say we “misread” him when he said, "destroyed" now that you put it in terms of Hayden beating Rossi. I'm sure he'll use a crafty backpedal or perhaps he will revert to a witty joke, either way, it will be very amusing to see him try to surgically remove another bad case of foot-in-mouth.
Response...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Feb 2 2007, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Quite simply. When he had to beat him at every race he did. No retraction, no misquote.
Just like Nicky did to Rossi.
a) Agree
B) Misread
c) Retract
d) Backpedal
e) Witty Joke
Answer: D) & E)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Feb 2 2007, 05:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, mate, you've got a much more liberal usage of the word "Destroy" in this context than I do. In both the championships it went down to the last race, it was either man's title.
Response...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Feb 2 2007, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Quite simply. When he had to beat him at every race he did. No retraction, no misquote.
Just like Nicky did to Rossi.
a) Agree
B) Misread
c) Retract
d) Backpedal
e) Witty Joke
Answer: D) & E)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Feb 2 2007, 05:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, mate, you've got a much more liberal usage of the word "Destroy" in this context than I do. In both the championships it went down to the last race, it was either man's title.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Feb 1 2007, 05:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A season is a long time. Edwards destroyed him the last time they were both in supers to take the title, and he's not exactly dominated GP.
The unbiased and unexaggerated voice of The Gate Keeper of Knowledge.
The unbiased and unexaggerated voice of The Gate Keeper of Knowledge.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 3 2007, 01:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The unbiased and unexaggerated voice of The Gate Keeper of Knowledge.
I stand corrected by the all powerful Googleman.
Pete
I stand corrected by the all powerful Googleman.
Pete
