Stoner to be inducted as legend.

Mr Squiggle · Oct 23, 2013

michaelm

3652981382591973

What do you think about the acidification of the sea thing, more in my line of things as someone trained in biological science rather than modelling; sounds as though that would be directly within your area of expertise.

For me the oceanic anoxic events and acidification that could occur are the scariest of all the climate change catastrophic scenarios.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_event

In other words when CO2 and H20 combine they from carbonic acid which to cut a long story short is REALLY bad for anything living in the sea. To my knowledge much of the oil and gas that was formed millions of years ago (and is now adding to the greenhouse gas emissions that occur today) is a direct result of the seas and everything in them dying from these events and then sinking to the bottom and forming the complex hydrocarbons we use for our enegy.....rather ironic dont you think?

OR maybe not...

This is just a another example of a closed system trying to bring itself back into equilibrium. Earth and the physical world we inhabit is always in a state of Yin Yang flux...these scenarios that may play out are a direct result of feedback systems trying to maintain that equilibrium.

The REAL problem and the root cause of 99% of the worlds problems however, is overpopulation. Loss of Biodiversity, resource shortages, AGW etc etc all stem from having too many humans on this finite planet and this is the elephant in the room everyone wants to ignore. That and also having an economy based on a fundamental flaw ie infinite growth in a finite system - are two of the biggest challenges we face in coming years (along with AGW).

Jumkie · Oct 23, 2013

How anybody could not like Casey is as perplexing. Reflecting on Sic today, as I was talking to Chops, for a moment, I got stuck on the thought, what memorable races would Sic have been a part of had he still been around. I imagined and evaluated in my minds eye where in the championship might he be. I also imagined what on track shenanigans he might be a part of, because lets face it, Sic could be ragged on the track. I honestly felt he was ready to make a change, as anybody can remember he actually apologized publicly when he crashed with Pedrosa. He verbalized (though as many concluded, as prepared statement) recognition he needed to tone it down, though at the time one could have easily said they were mere words. Frankly I think I even said that. But now I realize, words are at very least a start. Its better than saying, I won't change. I have a couple of photos of Sic that were given to me which are displayed in my garage (man cave more like it, which is a shrine to all motorcycle racers via various posters from the AMA, BSB, WSBK to GP...sorry, no CEVs...yet). I didn't mention it in the RIP Sic thread because I figured Sic deserved his own thread, but I was also reflecting on Casey and the impact his absence has made on the sport. He left on his own power and is now seeking different enjoyment, so I don't feel sad about it, but I do miss him just the same. I liked Stoner and thought he was a straight up no ........ guy, he was something to marvel on the track. Yeah, everybody has their flaws, and I pointed out a few myself (casting those biblical rocks, as I tend to do here on ps); but I didn't think they were of the magnitude deserving of the negativity he received. He wasn't out there racing reckless as a habit and wasn't glory hogging or politicking to screw the other guy. His thing was getting on with it.

And...you guys know if you got this far on one of my post you would end up reading some cynical ..... This should be your cue to .... off. Otherwise, I have said this before and said it often, his absence is an indictment on the state of the sport. Reading Krops latest article about the power struggle inside Repsol HRC, I'm reminded why my perspective on the sport had been shaped; always inclined to point out the ........ power politics and .......ization of its authenticity. Stoner had the advantage of his superior talent to buffer much of the unscrupulous power principals vying for influence, but this was no match for honest country folk like Nicky, nor Dovi for that matter. I can't help but laugh a bit at the poetic justice now reeking the two sides of the HRC garage. On one side, Pedro's Karma in the form of flying into orbit when his teammate brushed up against him, while the recompense of such arrogant on track behavior (inside and outside the garages) has handed Marc an embarrassing disqualification of their own making, equally reflective of their arrogance. Most likely HRC will still win the title, as overcoming such a stacked deck is of casino odds favor, or in this case collusion with Dorna. Though this weekend I will be hoping Universal Balance continues to extract reparations.

Mr Squiggle · Oct 23, 2013

Nice one Jumks!

I dont understand the irrational hatred directed towrds Stoner. I also dont understand the obsessive man love accorded other racers of his generation.

Stoner like NH was a simple country kid that never courted fame or fortune....all he ever wanted was a fast as .... bike so he could get on with waht he did best....going hyperspeed on two wheels.

Legend? Absofuckinglutely!

Arrabbiata1 · Oct 24, 2013

Jumkie

3653031382594353

How anybody could not like Casey is as perplexing. Reflecting on Sic today, as I was talking to Chops, for a moment, I got stuck on the thought, what memorable races would Sic have been a part of had he still been around. I imagined and evaluated in my minds eye where in the championship might he be. I also imagined what on track shenanigans he might be a part of, because lets face it, Sic could be ragged on the track. I honestly felt he was ready to make a change, as anybody can remember he actually apologized publicly when he crashed with Pedrosa. He verbalized (though as many concluded, as prepared statement) recognition he needed to tone it down, though at the time one could have easily said they were mere words. Frankly I think I even said that. But now I realize, words are at very least a start. Its better than saying, I won't change. I have a couple of photos of Sic that were given to me which are displayed in my garage (man cave more like it, which is a shrine to all motorcycle racers via various posters from the AMA, BSB, WSBK to GP...sorry, no CEVs...yet). I didn't mention it in the RIP Sic thread because I figured Sic deserved his own thread, but I was also reflecting on Casey and the impact his absence has made on the sport. He left on his own power and is now seeking different enjoyment, so I don't feel sad about it, but I do miss him just the same. I liked Stoner and thought he was a straight up no ........ guy, he was something to marvel on the track. Yeah, everybody has their flaws, and I pointed out a few myself (casting those biblical rocks, as I tend to do here on ps); but I didn't think they were of the magnitude deserving of the negativity he received. He wasn't out there racing reckless as a habit and wasn't glory hogging or politicking to screw the other guy. His thing was getting on with it.

And...you guys know if you got this far on one of my post you would end up reading some cynical ..... This should be your cue to .... off. Otherwise, I have said this before and said it often, his absence is an indictment on the state of the sport. Reading Krops latest article about the power struggle inside Repsol HRC, I'm reminded why my perspective on the sport had been shaped; always inclined to point out the ........ power politics and .......ization of its authenticity. Stoner had the advantage of his superior talent to buffer much of the unscrupulous power principals vying for influence, but this was no match for honest country folk like Nicky, nor Dovi for that matter. I can't help but laugh a bit at the poetic justice now reeking the two sides of the HRC garage. On one side, Pedro's Karma in the form of flying into orbit when his teammate brushed up against him, while the recompense of such arrogant on track behavior (inside and outside the garages) has handed Marc an embarrassing disqualification of their own making, equally reflective of their arrogance. Most likely HRC will still win the title, as overcoming such a stacked deck is of casino odds favor, or in this case collusion with Dorna. Though this weekend I will be hoping Universal Balance continues to extract reparations.

Brilliantly written

kiddyK · Oct 24, 2013

Mr Squiggle

3652971382590958

I too find this war on science perplexing....but there are only 2 simple statistics you need to know about anthropogenic global warming.

Glad to see you used the qualifier: "1. There is a consensus of 97.2% of the world's climate scientists that confirm the science is correct."

So many deniers use any old scientist - or even a weatherman - as 'proof' of scientific dissent. One of the world's 'leading' climate deniers, who gets a ridiculous amount of airtime and politicians ear, is a geologist.

Sloth_27 · Oct 24, 2013

kiddyK

3653541382614253

Glad to see you used the qualifier: "1. There is a consensus of 97.2% of the world's climate scientists that confirm the science is correct."

So many deniers use any old scientist - or even a weatherman - as 'proof' of scientific dissent. One of the world's 'leading' climate deniers, who gets a ridiculous amount of airtime and politicians ear, is a geologist.

Although I tend to agree, this goes both ways as well. There are climate scientists who were not climate scientists until it became a trending topic and they went chasing research grants. I work at a university and have seen examples of this first hand. Entire climate research departments have sprung up within just a few years.

I am interested to read about Casey's take on the climate debate when I grab a copy of the book.

kiddyK · Oct 24, 2013

All I gathered from "Leathers' was that it regularly got a bit damp...

michaelm · Oct 24, 2013

Sloth_27

3653581382614612

Although I tend to agree, this goes both ways as well. There are climate scientists who were not climate scientists until it became a trending topic and they went chasing research grants. I work at a university and have seen examples of this first hand. Entire climate research departments have sprung up within just a few years.

I am interested to read about Casey's take on the climate debate when I grab a copy of the book.

I have some familiarity with universities as well, and obtaining research grants is rather less lucrative than being a mining company geologist and progressing from there to being a major shareholder in and director of such, as at least one "scientist" prominent in the debate in Australia has done.

There are certainly cases in my field of most of the scientific establishment proving to be wrong at various times. However they were wrong for scientific reasons. Maintaining that the whole CO2 thing is wrong/a conspiracy because those involved want it to be true is not very cogently opposed with arguments largely based on not wanting it to be true imo. Putting all that carbon/carbon dioxide back in to the environment in a few hundred years is at least a very major experiment with unknown consequences in my vaguely scientific opinion.

JohnnyKnockdown · Oct 24, 2013

Stoner may be considered a legend because he had a lot of race wins in a particular era and will be remembered for that but his accomplishments (or should I say lack of them) do not merit him for the GP Hall of Fame.

When discussing his career people tend to focus on the two championships and multiple race wins. What they fail to grasp is that for 6 years Stoner consistently was faster in practices, qualifying and races but somehow still managed to lose 4 out of 6 championships. Given the great skill that he has these seasons can only be looked upon as a failure. That leaves the greater percentage of his time in GP as a failure.

He is the poster child of squandered talent. With his abilities he was capable of walking away with a semi truck full of championship trophies.

Im reminded of American gymnast Mckayla Maroney who competed in the last Olympics. McKayla is perhaps the greatest vaulter in the history of the sport. Theres noone today who can compete with her on this event. At the London Olympics she screwed up her vaults and ended up getting a silver. You might recognize her for her trademark scowl on the podium that was wildly parodied after the olympics. The reason for the scowl is because she knew she failed. The entire gymnastics world knows she failed. The silver medal is an insult to her. She knows her career is a failure until she gets that gold and vows to win one in 2016

Stoners career will be a valuable lesson that will help teach young riders to avoid the many obstacles that can derail their championship hopes. They know now to avoid milk, , people riding on the same track and english spectators. They know that a lack of RV parking passes is detrimental to their riding ability.

Now take a great rider such a Nicky Hayden and compare careers. Nicky possess far less talent then Stoner, perhaps less talent then a lot of current and former GP riders and yet he has such great will and determination that he was able to win a championship. If you took Stoners talent and gave it to Nicky, he would have won 10 championships by now.

Nicky is more deserving of hall of fame status because he won with far less talent while Stoner failed with the greatest talent then we've seen In years

Mick D · Oct 24, 2013

Casey on the Honda all those years and he would've won everything. The fact that he did what he did on the POS Duc just raises his accomplishments IMHO. Sorry Johnny FAIL.

JohnnyKnockdown · Oct 24, 2013

Mick D

3654191382636451

Casey on the Honda all those years and he would've won everything. The fact that he did what he did on the POS Duc just raises his accomplishments IMHO. Sorry Johnny FAIL.

He Was on a Honda for two years and won one championship. That puts his failure rate at 50% on a Honda.

Tom · Oct 24, 2013

JohnnyKnockdown

3654151382630365

Stoner may be considered a legend because he had a lot of race wins in a particular era and will be remembered for that but his accomplishments (or should I say lack of them) do not merit him for the GP Hall of Fame.

When discussing his career people tend to focus on the two championships and multiple race wins. What they fail to grasp is that for 6 years Stoner consistently was faster in practices, qualifying and races but somehow still managed to lose 4 out of 6 championships. Given the great skill that he has these seasons can only be looked upon as a failure. That leaves the greater percentage of his time in GP as a failure.

He is the poster child of squandered talent. With his abilities he was capable of walking away with a semi truck full of championship trophies.

Im reminded of American gymnast Mckayla Maroney who competed in the last Olympics. McKayla is perhaps the greatest vaulter in the history of the sport. Theres noone today who can compete with her on this event. At the London Olympics she screwed up her vaults and ended up getting a silver. You might recognize her for her trademark scowl on the podium that was wildly parodied after the olympics. The reason for the scowl is because she knew she failed. The entire gymnastics world knows she failed. The silver medal is an insult to her. She knows her career is a failure until she gets that gold and vows to win one in 2016

Stoners career will be a valuable lesson that will help teach young riders to avoid the many obstacles that can derail their championship hopes. They know now to avoid milk, , people riding on the same track and english spectators. They know that a lack of RV parking passes is detrimental to their riding ability.

Now take a great rider such a Nicky Hayden and compare careers. Nicky possess far less talent then Stoner, perhaps less talent then a lot of current and former GP riders and yet he has such great will and determination that he was able to win a championship. If you took Stoners talent and gave it to Nicky, he would have won 10 championships by now.

Nicky is more deserving of hall of fame status because he won with far less talent while Stoner failed with the greatest talent then we've seen In years

Sir Stirling Moss never won the F1 world championship but to this day is considered THE driver of his generation, he was the man everyone on the grid wanted and needed to beat. He is a legend.

Stoner may 'only' have won 2 world championships (seriously what does he have to do to please people), but he was the guy of the 800 era. He hasn't raced in over a year and we're still talking about him almost every week, we certainly forgot about Sete Gibernau quicker than that (for example)

michaelm · Oct 24, 2013

JohnnyKnockdown

3654151382630365

Stoner may be considered a legend because he had a lot of race wins in a particular era and will be remembered for that but his accomplishments (or should I say lack of them) do not merit him for the GP Hall of Fame.

When discussing his career people tend to focus on the two championships and multiple race wins. What they fail to grasp is that for 6 years Stoner consistently was faster in practices, qualifying and races but somehow still managed to lose 4 out of 6 championships. Given the great skill that he has these seasons can only be looked upon as a failure. That leaves the greater percentage of his time in GP as a failure.

He is the poster child of squandered talent. With his abilities he was capable of walking away with a semi truck full of championship trophies.

Im reminded of American gymnast Mckayla Maroney who competed in the last Olympics. McKayla is perhaps the greatest vaulter in the history of the sport. Theres noone today who can compete with her on this event. At the London Olympics she screwed up her vaults and ended up getting a silver. You might recognize her for her trademark scowl on the podium that was wildly parodied after the olympics. The reason for the scowl is because she knew she failed. The entire gymnastics world knows she failed. The silver medal is an insult to her. She knows her career is a failure until she gets that gold and vows to win one in 2016

Stoners career will be a valuable lesson that will help teach young riders to avoid the many obstacles that can derail their championship hopes. They know now to avoid milk, , people riding on the same track and english spectators. They know that a lack of RV parking passes is detrimental to their riding ability.

Now take a great rider such a Nicky Hayden and compare careers. Nicky possess far less talent then Stoner, perhaps less talent then a lot of current and former GP riders and yet he has such great will and determination that he was able to win a championship. If you took Stoners talent and gave it to Nicky, he would have won 10 championships by now.

Nicky is more deserving of hall of fame status because he won with far less talent while Stoner failed with the greatest talent then we've seen In years

Yes, and Valentino Rossi only won 2 championships over the same period, and it seems fairly likely barring further genius race strategies from MM and his inner circle that JL's record in the premier class will also be 2 for 6 at the end of this year. Your point is?.

J4rno's point is correct imo, that the whole " official legend " thing is a fairly tawdry marketing exercise by Dorna anyway. In most sports whether or not "legend" status is valid in them there is a far more rigorous and independent process to decide such things than the most senior merchant banker involved with the sport just saying it is so in any case.

JohnnyKnockdown · Oct 24, 2013

michaelm

3654401382649593

Yes, and Valentino Rossi only won 2 championships over the same period, and it seems fairly likely barring further genius race strategies from MM and his inner circle that JL's record in the premier class will also be 2 for 6 at the end of this year. Your point is?.

J4rno's point is correct anyway imo, that the whole " official legend " thing is a fairly tawdry marketing exercise by Dorna anyway. In most sports whether or not "legend" status is valid in them there is a far more rigorous and independent process to decide such things than the most senior merchant banker involved with the sport just saying it is so in any case.

Go back to my example of Mckayla Maroney. The girl is so good she vaults a foot higher than the men even though her vault table is set lower.

That was Stoner for six years. He was off the charts faster than everybody in every category in every practice iand n every qualifying. As jumkie has said many times before, Stoner was the one and only alien who was racing Against opponents who were not as good as him but allowed them to beat him for four years

Mr Squiggle · Oct 24, 2013

kiddyK

3653541382614253

Glad to see you used the qualifier: "1. There is a consensus of 97.2% of the world's climate scientists that confirm the science is correct."

So many deniers use any old scientist - or even a weatherman - as 'proof' of scientific dissent. One of the world's 'leading' climate deniers, who gets a ridiculous amount of airtime and politicians ear, is a geologist.

Actually Kiddy many of the vocal critics of climate change science are retired geologists with ties to the petroleum industry....theres your conspiracy right there - Ian Plimer is a perfect example.

Three of my best mates are Geos. All of them accept the science without question

Dr No · Oct 24, 2013

michaelm

3653641382615580

I have some familiarity with universities as well, and obtaining research grants is rather less lucrative than being a mining company geologist and progressing from there to being a major shareholder in and director of such, as at least one "scientist" prominent in the debate in Australia has done.

There are certainly cases in my field of most of the scientific establishment proving to be wrong at various times. However they were wrong for scientific reasons. Maintaining that the whole CO2 thing is wrong/a conspiracy because those involved want it to be true is not very cogently opposed with arguments largely based on not wanting it to be true imo. Putting all that carbon/carbon dioxide back in to the environment in a few hundred years is at least a very major experiment with unknown consequences in my vaguely scientific opinion.

Plimer. And I used to quite enjoy his writing in his "Telling Lies for God" phase.

"There are certainly cases in my field of most of the scientific establishment proving to be wrong at various times. However they were wrong for scientific reasons."

This bears repeating.

Dr No · Oct 24, 2013

Mr Squiggle

3654561382654736

Actually Kiddy many of the vocal critics of climate change science are retired geologists with ties to the petroleum industry....theres your conspiracy right there - Ian Pilmer is a perfect example.

Three of my best mates are Geos. All of them accept the science without question

(beat me to it with the Plimer ref)

Watch it with that. You're risking the "science isn't based on consensus" crowd picking it apart while crowing about Galileo.

Mr Squiggle · Oct 24, 2013

JohnnyKnockdown

3654151382630365

Stoner may be considered a legend because he had a lot of race wins in a particular era and will be remembered for that but his accomplishments (or should I say lack of them) do not merit him for the GP Hall of Fame.

When discussing his career people tend to focus on the two championships and multiple race wins. What they fail to grasp is that for 6 years Stoner consistently was faster in practices, qualifying and races but somehow still managed to lose 4 out of 6 championships. Given the great skill that he has these seasons can only be looked upon as a failure. That leaves the greater percentage of his time in GP as a failure.

He is the poster child of squandered talent. With his abilities he was capable of walking away with a semi truck full of championship trophies.

Im reminded of American gymnast Mckayla Maroney who competed in the last Olympics. McKayla is perhaps the greatest vaulter in the history of the sport. Theres noone today who can compete with her on this event. At the London Olympics she screwed up her vaults and ended up getting a silver. You might recognize her for her trademark scowl on the podium that was wildly parodied after the olympics. The reason for the scowl is because she knew she failed. The entire gymnastics world knows she failed. The silver medal is an insult to her. She knows her career is a failure until she gets that gold and vows to win one in 2016

Stoners career will be a valuable lesson that will help teach young riders to avoid the many obstacles that can derail their championship hopes. They know now to avoid milk, , people riding on the same track and english spectators. They know that a lack of RV parking passes is detrimental to their riding ability.

Now take a great rider such a Nicky Hayden and compare careers. Nicky possess far less talent then Stoner, perhaps less talent then a lot of current and former GP riders and yet he has such great will and determination that he was able to win a championship. If you took Stoners talent and gave it to Nicky, he would have won 10 championships by now.

Nicky is more deserving of hall of fame status because he won with far less talent while Stoner failed with the greatest talent then we've seen In years

Congratulations yet again on your stunning lack of insight - your inability to apply context is second to none.

McKayla Maroney like Casey Stoner is also a double world champion and she also has a gold medal for the team vault in the olympics. If that is an example of failure I will take failure any day of the week.

Obviously all those previous World Trolling titles have gone to your head and you once again feel the need for some attention...so by all means feel free to remind us of your "legendary" achievements - an abridged version or link to a wiki article will suffice.

Mr Squiggle · Oct 24, 2013

Dr No

3654591382655182

(beat me to it with the Plimer ref)

Watch it with that. You're risking the "science isn't based on consensus" crowd picking it apart while crowing about Galileo.

Yes unfortunately science isnt an exact science hehe.

Gravity didnt stop at Newton and our ideas about it have continued to be refined to this day. We still dont truly grasp it at the quantum level but over time we are gaining a much better understanding of it. The tools at our disposal today such as the LHC better equip us in this continued quest for knowledge.

JohnnyKnockdown · Oct 24, 2013

Mr Squiggle

3654651382656729

Congratulations yet again on your stunning lack of insight - your inability to apply context is second to none.

McKayla Maroney like Casey Stoner is also a double world champion and she also has a gold medal for the team vault in the olympics. If that is an example of failure I will take failure any day of the week.

Obviously all those previous World Trolling titles have gone to your head and you once again feel the need for some attention...so by all means feel free to remind us of your "legendary" achievements - an abridged version or link to a wiki article will suffice.

My first achievement was getting you to stick your foot in your mouth trying to discuss something you know absolutely nothing about.

Mckayla Maroney won a gold medal in the team all around. She failed to win a gold medal at the event that she was brought to the Olympics for. In this particular event she is the best in the world and quite possibly the best ever. That is an individual metal not something that shared by three other people. This is what she has dedicated her life to.

Winning worlds is just a qualifier for being an olympic candidate. The gymnastics world is littereed with worlds champs that failed or never made the olympics.

Without googling can you tell me who Danny Leyva is?

Didnt think so. Thats because he was the odds on favorite to win the last olympics because of his domination in the worlds. He failed and faded into obscurity instead of becoming a national and worldwide star.

Olympic medal is far and away a more prestegious award then worlds.

But anyway nice job trying to take my example and logic out of context and try to squiggle it to your own means

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