Stoner begins to feel the stress

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jul 16 2007, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner a chicken?..my ... he is. Hopper said it was more slippery that in the rain with the Bridgers they had on. So he looked at them and they looked okay but the feeling when they are scorching hot and under intense cornering pressure is different than looking at a cooled off tire.

So Sunday Stoner got 20 points on Rossi, story over. He couldn't even have dreamed to get 5 points before the race. The pressure is all on Rossi now and his bike isn't as perfect as it seems it was in Assen. He had a bad time at Laguna last year. I wonder how hot it will be in California this year, over 60C like last year? The track temps in Germany were 55C!! I have ridden a track day at 56C and you don't want to even be there.

Stoner is playing to win the title and that is smart beyond his years. Whie my team disintegrates...


How many points did stoner gain?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (250stroker @ Jul 16 2007, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How many points did stoner gain?

Stoner 5th Rossi DNF so 11 point gain...right?

1st : 25
2nd: 20
3rd: 16
4th: 13
<span style="font-family:Comic Sans Ms5th: 11
6th: 10
7th: 9
8th: 8
9th: 7
10th: 6
11th: 5
12th: 4
13th: 3
14th: 2
15th: 1

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jul 16 2007, 05:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry...10 or so I was is a hurry

Try again

You guys can continue your debate, so excuse me while I give my thoughts.....
Stoner is riding smart, if anyone is feeling stress right now it's Rossi(self induced). Now I'm not trying to stir the Rossi fans up, it's just my observation that Rossi is under more pressure to make up the deficit, but I'm sure the cool Italian will do so, hell look at the deficit he made up to Hayden last year after Laguna, so we will have many interesting races to come. If Stoner was having tire issues which I believe to be true since all of the other Bridgestone runners(except Capi) falling back later in the race, then Stoner is smart for not pushing the issue and taking a fall.
With that, I think Michelin will shine again in Laguna and the pressure will weigh a little heavier on Stoners shoulders after that round if Rossi puts on a clinic there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Jul 16 2007, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You guys can continue your debate, so excuse me while I give my thoughts.....
Stoner is riding smart, if anyone is feeling stress right now it's Rossi(self induced). Now I'm not trying to stir the Rossi fans up, it's just my observation that Rossi is under more pressure to make up the deficit, but I'm sure the cool Italian will do so, hell look at the deficit he made up to Hayden last year after Laguna, so we will have many interesting races to come. If Stoner was having tire issues which I believe to be true since all of the other Bridgestone runners(except Capi) falling back later in the race, then Stoner is smart for not pushing the issue and taking a fall.
With that, I think Michelin will shine again in Laguna and the pressure will weigh a little heavier on Stoners shoulders after that round if Rossi puts on a clinic there.

Yes, brilliant.

The pressure Rossi feels is self induced. It seems he's frustrated b/c he has hit a string of bad luck and the Italian press and his own inner demons are compounding the situation. Unlike other riders Rossi has 5 premier class world titles so there is little incentive for him to discipline himself to another couple world titles unless he's still super dedicated to supassing Ago in every category.

Stoner dodged the biggest bullet of his career so far. His tires go off slightly and Rossi goes down. There's no reason to believe Rossi wouldn't have taken second at the Sachsenring and Ducati never go well at Laguna. These two races should have been a 20+ pt. swing for Rossi but Stoner caught a huge break.

Rossi goes down at a strong track for him. Now he has to do slightly better than expected at Laguna, and he has to get a steal points back at a storng Ducati track (Brno).

The pressure is on Rossi now.

If this is what some of you lot are like at this stage in the season, I reckon Ben'll shut the forum down again in advance of Valencia this year. If you can't behave rationally, leave. Its that simple. The forum was shut down once due to this kind of behaviour, some of those involved joined after it so I'm letting you know.
Ben was very clear that he set up this forum so that he could relax and enjoy talking MotoGP with other MotoGP fans. He didn't set it up as an extra place for work and stress. I'm not going to single out the guilty parties now, i'm just getting seriously sick of this whole situation, and I know I'm not the only one.

CSCVAW chill out. youre not making any friends here by using insults and have got the moderating team looking at your posts.

this is officially your warning. please do not continue disrespecting other members or action will be taken.

And not just CSCVAW, also others.
You have been warned.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 17 2007, 05:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The pressure Rossi feels is self induced. It seems he's frustrated b/c he has hit a string of bad luck and the Italian press and his own inner demons are compounding the situation. Unlike other riders Rossi has 5 premier class world titles so there is little incentive for him to discipline himself to another couple world titles unless he's still super dedicated to supassing Ago in every category.

Stoner dodged the biggest bullet of his career so far. His tires go off slightly and Rossi goes down. There's no reason to believe Rossi wouldn't have taken second at the Sachsenring and Ducati never go well at Laguna. These two races should have been a 20+ pt. swing for Rossi but Stoner caught a huge break.

Rossi goes down at a strong track for him. Now he has to do slightly better than expected at Laguna, and he has to get a steal points back at a storng Ducati track (Brno).

The pressure is on Rossi now.

I agree, he's 32 points adrift now. The pressure is on but I expect him to come back strong at LAGUNA . Interestingly thats twice now in less than a year we've seen Rossi go down when trying to get to the front.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alex29 @ Jul 17 2007, 07:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interestingly thats twice now in less than a year we've seen Rossi go down when trying to get to the front.You see people say that alot, "it's very unlike Rossi" but he went down with Melandri at Motegi in 2005, & he went down in Qatar 2004 both when playing catch up. Just a thought.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Jul 17 2007, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You see people say that alot, "it's very unlike Rossi" but he went down with Melandri at Motegi in 2005, & he went down in Qatar 2004 both when playing catch up. Just a thought.

Maybe he's a human! Just throwing it out there.....

i like ham

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 17 2007, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe he's a human! Just throwing it out there.....I wouldn't have it any other way.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 15 2007, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But then again, according to some, it's all about the rider when he's out there, maybe he started to get really phillosophical out there.
Well let’s see. He (the rider) does admit that he was riding a bit tentative. He does say he (the rider) looked at the tire and realized he could have pushed harder. I'd say the rider made that assertion.

That is not to say that the tire had wear issues. But despite tire/bike/etc issues (non-living/non-breathing elements of the bike) then yes, as I always assert, it’s the rider that has the greatest control over these factors (barring catastrophic failure.)

I realize you just can/won’t get your mind wrapped around this reality, but bikes/tires don’t rider themselves.

In fact, that was the point of the article. Did your really miss that? Casey is saying that he (the rider) could have had more control over his lap times despite (you do understand this word right), again despite the tire issue. You get it—it’s about the rider here!

C'mon Babel, I was looking to agree with you on something but then you give me this. I was about to agree that the laps could have improved, but not to the extent of getting back 3 secs, but then you distracted me with your stubborn stance on refusing to accept that its the rider that infact has the greatest effect. Oh well, I'll keep reading to find other stuff to agree with you, but I admit, it might not be easy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gui22a @ Jul 15 2007, 03:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>cowardly = fearful = be afraid.

(...)so next time I know how hard I can push and not to be afraid of this kind of thing(...).

Proceed?
Hi Gui, I don't think you are using the word "cowardly" correctly. Coward has a different connotation. Sure fear is an element in that word, but the nuance and connotation is a world of difference. Consider this, have you ever heard somebody say, "We are God fearing"? or "to fear God”? Well the word fear in this case means to respect or reverence or reveres not to be scared of or freighted of. You see, some words have derivatives and connotations that are much different and are used to mean different concepts.

I think what Stoner was saying by using the word “afraid” to describe him pushing the tires was more along the lines that he was careful and cautious. This is totally different than the meaning of coward--which is more like gutless, weak, (pusillanimous). In street language (colloquially), coward is more like saying he was a ...... But really this is not what he meant. Just a clarification.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gui22a @ Jul 15 2007, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tire problems all riders had today. He absolutely drove cowardly this and last round.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Jul 15 2007, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I just read the link and I still don't see where you get this cowardly riding from? Nothing in the article says "cowardly" to me but, dunno I'm getting old I must need some glasses!
Gui is a Stoner fan, I don't think he was being disrespectful deliberately, just a miss use of the word.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jul 17 2007, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>C'mon Babel, I was looking to agree with you on something but then you give me this. I was about to agree that the laps could have improved, but not to the extent of getting back 3 secs, but then you distracted me with your stubborn stance on refusing to accept that its the rider that infact has the greatest effect. Oh well, I'll keep reading to find other stuff to agree with you, but I admit, it might not be easy.

So according to you how much could the rider improve on the lap times at the final stages of that race?

These guys make set up desitions based on 10ths and 100ds of a second change in lap times. All Stones riders except Capirossi dropped to the same level. Stoner fighted off melandri and hopper and still you say that the rider (stoner) could have done better on those tires?

When he talks about control over lap times and pushing harder I suspect that would have showed up in 100ds and 10ths of a second, not in seconds. Even when not pushing these guys are fast. And so far I've never met a racer that doesn't feel like he is on a picknik as soon as he drops 1 sec. off his current race pace (not when a tire go bad, jsut lowering the pace). Meaning; One single second is a hell of a lot in difference for these guys and i stongly doubt the tires had a full second improvment in them. That's how good these guys are and how hard they "push" when not pushing. One second better lap times and I suspect he would have joined Rossi.

I would consider someone a coward not for being affraid, but for how they deal with that fear. Stoner said he was affraid, but i'd say he did an impressively stable job of dealing with it, so hes not a coward in my book.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CSCVAW @ Jul 16 2007, 03:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That’s JUST .........!!!......Casey is riding for the title MAN!!!...

ur just trying to denegrade HIM (Casey)!!!

did last year & NickyH only won 2 RACES!!!...& HAD THESE REALLY S/HOUSE STATS...

SUCK THAT!!!
Not sure why you insist on SHOUTING but we all hear you man. I agree with your defense on riding prudent, but I don't understand the double standard. You make a brief case that it’s ok to ride carefully but then sight Hayden with "S/HOUSE STATS". Do you understand that this is a bit hypocritical? Isn’t this just a way to "denegrade" Hayden a bit, as you say? I agree with you that Casey should ride prudently; after all, he is part of a team that is trying to win a championship. It’s the team that is preparing his bike (which if you have been paying attention, much credit has been given to it). But I don't see why you need to sight Hayden to make your point.

Casey is riding great. I don't think there really is any issue to discuss as far as his will and determination to win--he has already proven that this season.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 17 2007, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner fighted off melandri and hopper and still you say that the rider (stoner) could have done better on those tires?
I didn't say it, Stoner did. And if you check your posts on this thread you agreed with him. The question is magnitude, how much could have he improved.

The rest of your post was confusing as to what was your point of contention, so really didn't know what to respond.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 17 2007, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would consider someone a coward not for being affraid, but for how they deal with that fear. Stoner said he was affraid, but i'd say he did an impressively stable job of dealing with it, so hes not a coward in my book.
how did you work that one out ??
and i think rj is right, gui just used the wrong word, language barrier thing, no big deal !