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Lorenzo - I don't care about MotoGP championship

Mike saved me the trouble of typing up a rebuttal, but I do want to touch on some things. It's already been well-documented the lengths that Dorna went to, in order to ensure Valentino Rossi would be given what was perceived to be competitive equipment from the bike to the tires. Carmelo brokered the deal that allowed Rossi to ride a Bridgestone-shod M1 for 2008 while the other bike for the rookie Jorge Lorenzo would be forced to run Michelin's. All of that stemmed out of the mistaken belief that a good portion of Stoner's success on the Ducati GP07 was down to the Bridgestone tires. Certainly they played a role in helping the bike be more rideable for Stoner, but it was still a handful of a bike to ride...and he is the only reason that bike had the success it did. The media didn't much help matters by being completely ignorant to the reality of what the GP07 was, and that it wasn't the purported "Ducati rocketship" --well in a straight line yes-- that everyone was quick to label the bike. Rossi spent the entire summer crying about the tires, which resulted in an unprecedented deal to allow one bike to run Bridgestones. Maybe it's not a conspiracy to you, in whatever way you perceive the definition of 'conspiracy' to mean. But given Ducati was denied the ability to switch to Michelin for 2009 tells you how fraudulent the entire thing was.

Though I have to laugh because of your missive regarding the conspiracy against the Patriots, but your quick to dismiss any talk that Dorna engaged in any conspiracies because Stoner was the only one to speak up about it some of the shenanigans. Of course, being that you don't like Stoner at all, why would you see any of it as a big deal? You wouldn't because the hate you have for him, outweighs any ability you have to look at what the facts were.

I know you like mm. We've spoken about it. My point is you seem to dwell on Stoners because of his skill but don't ever recognize that an equal or greater talent is currently racing.
Ive listened to the conspiracies for years, if their truly meant to benefit Rossi then how do you explain why he hasnt won a title in 8 years.
 
I know you like mm. We've spoken about it. My point is you seem to dwell on Stoners because of his skill but don't ever recognize that an equal or greater talent is currently racing.
Ive listened to the conspiracies for years, if their truly meant to benefit Rossi then how do you explain why he hasnt won a title in 8 years.

You may have missed my posts in the past few months where I've said MM is on the verge of achieving true alien status. A lot of it hinges on winning this year's title on bike that isn't what he won his back-to-back titles on. Unlike most, my bar for alien hasn't been set knee-high. Last two aliens to ride in GP IMO were Stoner and Rainey. I don't think Rossi or Lorenzo are aliens....neither is Vinales for that matter. But it won't matter since people are already anointing Vinales as the next best thing...while ignoring that he has a great bike in the GSX-RR. If Honda goes to a big bang V4 for 2017 and solves the power curve, the title is already over for next year.

Regarding Rossi's lack of titles. He was injured in 2010. He ...... himself in 2011 and 2012 with his hubris by not understanding the Ducati. Got the golden parachute in 2013. Was never going to touch MM in 2014. Nearly won in 2015 and could have been leading the championship were it not for mistakes on his part this year.
 
You may have missed my posts in the past few months where I've said MM is on the verge of achieving true alien status. A lot of it hinges on winning this year's title on bike that isn't what he won his back-to-back titles on. Unlike most, my bar for alien hasn't been set knee-high. Last two aliens to ride in GP IMO were Stoner and Rainey. I don't think Rossi or Lorenzo are aliens....neither is Vinales for that matter. But it won't matter since people are already anointing Vinales as the next best thing...while ignoring that he has a great bike in the GSX-RR. If Honda goes to a big bang V4 for 2017 and solves the power curve, the title is already over for next year.

Regarding Rossi's lack of titles. He was injured in 2010. He ...... himself in 2011 and 2012 with his hubris by not understanding the Ducati. Got the golden parachute in 2013. Was never going to touch MM in 2014. Nearly won in 2015 and could have been leading the championship were it not for mistakes on his part this year.


Why did you leave Alf, Mork, and Marvin off your list?
 
Aww man. I'm worried answering this question fully will open up a war that has long been over for me. I was a fan of his when he rode for Gresini. I was impressed with the way he pushed win or bin style. But the more I heard him speak and read his interviews the more he annoyed me. I though he was quick to throw people under the bus when things were wrong, lazy, and a quitter long before he retired. He was/is a honest person I don't doubt that. A lot of times the biggest ........ are the most honest. Its all about perspective. I do get the admiration people like yourself, jum, and gaz have for him I do. And some of you also get why I think hes a ..... Prespective. Please if you do reply realize this has nothing to do with that .... Rossi.

Who was he throwing under the bus in particular?
 
Who was he throwing under the bus in particular?

I really mean no disrespect, but I don't want to get all that into it. I'm being vague because I'm not looking to debate something that is my opinion about someone that is in the distant past, plus it was debated to death while it was current. I will just say justified or not he liked to blame people for the things that happened to him all the up to his retirement speech.
 
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I really mean no disrespect, but I don't want to get all that into it. I'm being vague because I'm not looking to debate something that is my opinion about someone that is in the distant past, plus it was debated to death while it was current. I will just say justified or not he liked to blame people for the things that happened to him all the up to his retirement speech.

Okay.
 
You may have missed my posts in the past few months where I've said MM is on the verge of achieving true alien status. A lot of it hinges on winning this year's title on bike that isn't what he won his back-to-back titles on. Unlike most, my bar for alien hasn't been set knee-high. Last two aliens to ride in GP IMO were Stoner and Rainey. I don't think Rossi or Lorenzo are aliens....neither is Vinales for that matter. But it won't matter since people are already anointing Vinales as the next best thing...while ignoring that he has a great bike in the GSX-RR. If Honda goes to a big bang V4 for 2017 and solves the power curve, the title is already over for next year.

Regarding Rossi's lack of titles. He was injured in 2010. He ...... himself in 2011 and 2012 with his hubris by not understanding the Ducati. Got the golden parachute in 2013. Was never going to touch MM in 2014. Nearly won in 2015 and could have been leading the championship were it not for mistakes on his part this year.

No Doohan?
 
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Aww man. I'm worried answering this question fully will open up a war that has long been over for me. I was a fan of his when he rode for Gresini. I was impressed with the way he pushed win or bin style. But the more I heard him speak and read his interviews the more he annoyed me. I though he was quick to throw people under the bus when things were wrong, lazy, and a quitter long before he retired. He was/is a honest person I don't doubt that. A lot of times the biggest ........ are the most honest. Its all about perspective. I do get the admiration people like yourself, jum, and gaz have for him I do. And some of you also get why I think hes a ..... Prespective. Please if you do reply realize this has nothing to do with that .... Rossi.


Can't be Stoner you mean as he did not ride for Gresini :p

In MotoGP and most of the earlier classes he rode for Luccio Cechinello Racing (LCR).

Gresini Honda (from memory) was a different team (may have been Melandri)


Edit. Confirmed. Stoner did not ride for Gresini so it must be Elias, Melandri, Nakano or De Angelis from around that time whom you mean :)
 
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Can't be Stoner you mean as he did not ride for Gresini :p

In MotoGP and most of the earlier classes he rode for Luccio Cechinello Racing (LCR).

Gresini Honda (from memory) was a different team (may have been Melandri)


Edit. Confirmed. Stoner did not ride for Gresini so it must be Elias, Melandri, Nakano or De Angelis from around that time whom you mean :)

I am sure Mdub knows his stuff and meant LCR. Gresini as you know keep changing their name anyway.

I disagree with Mdub about Stoner throwing people under the bus in any case however except for the "Marlboro Man" who fully deserves to be so thrown, which I presume Ferrari will eventually be forced to do unless Philip Morris like losing.

Stoner's crew whom he thanked effusively on his retirement stayed with him the whole way, Honda offered him a record contract to stay riding and had him back as a test rider (I think him fracturing his scapula and tibia due to a basic mechanical fault like a stuck throttle rather qualifies as Honda throwing him under a bus) and Ducati have also obviously been happy to have him back.
 
I am sure Mdub knows his stuff and meant LCR. Gresini as you know keep changing their name anyway.

Absolutely Mike, but I just cannot let a chance pass to fact check ole Dubs (all in good fun as he would be aware) :p



I disagree with Mdub about Stoner throwing people under the bus in any case however except for the "Marlboro Man" who fully deserves to be so thrown, which I presume Ferrari will eventually be forced to do unless Philip Morris like losing.

Actually, that is a good point as aside from the Marlboro dude I genuinely cannot recall a team member or sponsor who it could be considered that he 'threw under a bus'.

Sure he was critical at times of Bridgestone once the single supplier came to play but in terms of sponsors of teams for whom he has ridden, nope.

Actually he is quite loyal to some of his sponsors as well given that he started with Nolan and is still with them despite having been offered more money post 2007 to swap helmets but not sure if they are the only ones.

Sure however, if Dubs considers that CS has thrown people under a bus then I do wonder what others have thrown people under by comparison?


Stoner's crew whom he thanked effusively on his retirement stayed with him the whole way, Honda offered him a record contract to stay riding and had him back as a test rider (I think him fracturing his scapula and tibia due to a basic mechanical fault like a stuck throttle rather qualifies as Honda throwing him under a bus) and Ducati have also obviously been happy to have him back.

Gabbarini speaks incredibly highly and respectfully of Stoner ad that was before they will soon be somewhat working together again at Ducati.

Prezioisi loved him and credited him far more than many

Suppo much the same (that may have waned a little recently)

HRC honchos also seemed to be quite respectful of Stoner and did seem somewhat disappointed with his move to Ducati

The list likely goes on but at the same time there will be people where he will not be thought of come Christmas, just as some that he would not send cards.
 
I am sure Mdub knows his stuff and meant LCR. Gresini as you know keep changing their name anyway.

I disagree with Mdub about Stoner throwing people under the bus in any case however except for the "Marlboro Man" who fully deserves to be so thrown, which I presume Ferrari will eventually be forced to do unless Philip Morris like losing.

Stoner's crew whom he thanked effusively on his retirement stayed with him the whole way, Honda offered him a record contract to stay riding and had him back as a test rider (I think him fracturing his scapula and tibia due to a basic mechanical fault like a stuck throttle rather qualifies as Honda throwing him under a bus) and Ducati have also obviously been happy to have him back.

In fairness, Ferrari's woes have a lot more to do with engineering issues than anything to do with the Marlboro Man. If anything, the situation there has been made worse by Sergio Marchionne meddling with the team in a business he knows absolutely nothing about. The man is a genuine moron when it comes to understanding F1, and should do the world a favor and stick to begging competitor motor manufacturers to buy out Fiat-Chrysler.
 
In fairness, Ferrari's woes have a lot more to do with engineering issues than anything to do with the Marlboro Man. If anything, the situation there has been made worse by Sergio Marchionne meddling with the team in a business he knows absolutely nothing about. The man is a genuine moron when it comes to understanding F1, and should do the world a favor and stick to begging competitor motor manufacturers to buy out Fiat-Chrysler.
Doesn't change Maurizio Arrivabene being a total ....... who completely overestimated his own competence.

The irony of a Marlboro advertising executive denying Stoner's health issues in 2009 was certainly not lost on me, although I guess denying obvious health issues was very much within his sphere of competence, into which category recognising the talent which brought Ducati's main success in GP bike racing, identifying a replacement for said rider, and running an F1 team do not appear to fall.
 
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I am sure Mdub knows his stuff and meant LCR. Gresini as you know keep changing their name anyway.

I disagree with Mdub about Stoner throwing people under the bus in any case however except for the "Marlboro Man" who fully deserves to be so thrown, which I presume Ferrari will eventually be forced to do unless Philip Morris like losing.

Stoner's crew whom he thanked effusively on his retirement stayed with him the whole way, Honda offered him a record contract to stay riding and had him back as a test rider (I think him fracturing his scapula and tibia due to a basic mechanical fault like a stuck throttle rather qualifies as Honda throwing him under a bus) and Ducati have also obviously been happy to have him back.

Thanks guys yes I meant LCR completely forgot about their existence for a minute. Again I will say its perspective. His answer were harsh and honest. Sometimes honesty isn't the best way in a sport that your team does a lot of work for little glory. I like my rider to take responsibility even when it not his fault sometimes. I have said before that I did like his candor when it came to safety concerns. Like I keep saying its prospective. But the fact that he tests for ducati by just riding when he feel like furthers my point that he is a selfish prick to me. Who wouldn't want to ride around for fun after they retire?
 
Thanks guys yes I meant LCR completely forgot about their existence for a minute. Again I will say its perspective. His answer were harsh and honest. Sometimes honesty isn't the best way in a sport that your team does a lot of work for little glory. I like my rider to take responsibility even when it not his fault sometimes. I have said before that I did like his candor when it came to safety concerns. Like I keep saying its prospective. But the fact that he tests for ducati by just riding when he feel like furthers my point that he is a selfish prick to me. Who wouldn't want to ride around for fun after they retire?

All good Dubs and I tend to agree that sometimes sponsor speak is best within certain situations than is rank honesty and candor.

As for being selfish because of the testing, well as I understand it Ducati do not ask for that much testing and there may (not sure if there are) but may be limitations on how much testing can be done
 
Just some food for thought.

I've noticed Stoner has become very inactive on social media the last few weeks.

I texted Jum about it maybe a week or two ago and pointed it out. My belief is he is prepping his conditioning for a wild card at Phillip Island.
 
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