Silverstone Race Discussion (Spoiler Alert! You All)

povol said:

Dovi was visibly later on the brakes, which in essence made him faster. Sic was on the razors edge and Dovi only rode the edge when he needed to. Im sure Sic had that flogging bag in the back of his mind and didnt want to add Dovi's picture to it.In the end, he still went down unassisted. His bike bill must be getting awfully high about now.

Click to expand...

Once Lorenzo was out (unassisted) Simo's work was done - he will get a 2 week reprieve from the sack for not taking out another Honda rider

esco said:

Dovi was slower, Sic caught up to him 2 times einstein. Sic was looking for a way to pass but like i said dovi had him beat on the breaks. It looked diff to probably judge the braking with all the water being spat on the visor. Anyways Dovi did what he had to do, No blame on him.

Click to expand...

Generally it's a sure sign that someone is not a good debater when they use insults in a rejoinder to a reasonable post.

You certainly prove the rule.



Cannot you not conceive of the idea that Dovi was perfectly capable of going faster, but resisting doing so in order to

avoid sharing the fate of Sasquatch and Lorenzo? He was riding the more tactically prudent race. Guys like you

never seem to grasp that racing isn't all about big hairy balls-out top speed. It's largely about racecraft; and Dovi clearly demonstrated more of that than Simoncelli - because he managed to keep the shiny side up.



So ....... what if Simoncelli was faster at that stage? How much good did it do him? Get it??? Did you not watch the race at Laguna

where Stoner was miles away faster than Rossi, only to be bested by a slower Rossi, because Rossi had fantastic racecraft?



See if you can manage to reply intelligently and not resort to mindless insults. Can you do it? Or will you just fall to the usual

easy habit of slagging people who think and reason more clearly than yourself?

Keshav said:

Generally it's a sure sign that someone is not a good debater when they use insults in a rejoinder to a reasonable post.

You certainly prove the rule.



Cannot you not conceive of the idea that Dovi was perfectly capable of going faster, but resisting doing so in order to

avoid sharing the fate of Sasquatch and Lorenzo? He was riding the more tactically prudent race. Guys like you

never seem to grasp that racing isn't all about big hairy balls-out top speed. It's largely about racecraft; and Dovi clearly demonstrated more of that than Simoncelli - because he managed to keep the shiny side up.



So ....... what if Simoncelli was faster at that stage? How much good did it do him? Get it??? Did you not watch the race at Laguna

where Stoner was miles away faster than Rossi, only to be bested by a slower Rossi, because Rossi had fantastic racecraft?



See if you can manage to reply intelligently and not resort to mindless insults. Can you do it? Or will you just fall to the usual

easy habit of slagging people who think and reason more clearly than yourself?

Click to expand...

At the moment dovi is 3rd in the championship and simoncelli is 11th, and hence conclusions that simoncelli is showing up dovi and is more deserving of a factory ride next year seem premature to say the least. Raw pace is a priceless and rare commodity, but simoncelli is no longer a rookie and still has not had a podium despite his one -lap pace, and it is beginning to look as though he is not a good learner in general.

Keshav said:

Generally it's a sure sign that someone is not a good debater when they use insults in a rejoinder to a reasonable post.

You certainly prove the rule.



Cannot you not conceive of the idea that Dovi was perfectly capable of going faster, but resisting doing so in order to

avoid sharing the fate of Sasquatch and Lorenzo? He was riding the more tactically prudent race. Guys like you

never seem to grasp that racing isn't all about big hairy balls-out top speed. It's largely about racecraft; and Dovi clearly demonstrated more of that than Simoncelli - because he managed to keep the shiny side up.



So ....... what if Simoncelli was faster at that stage? How much good did it do him? Get it??? Did you not watch the race at Laguna

where Stoner was miles away faster than Rossi, only to be bested by a slower Rossi, because Rossi had fantastic racecraft?



See if you can manage to reply intelligently and not resort to mindless insults. Can you do it? Or will you just fall to the usual

easy habit of slagging people who think and reason more clearly than yourself?

Click to expand...

............I agree............but Sasquatch is a bit harsh.



Maybe he's just riding like a bit of a nong at the moment because................



1)......... that's how he rides.



2) Hee-Haw and the like bashing on him, he's trying to prove things a bit too much and set the world on fire too soon.



3) maybe he is a nong of a rider and will never learn.





I hope it's 2.

Keshav said:

Generally it's a sure sign that someone is not a good debater when they use insults in a rejoinder to a reasonable post.

You certainly prove the rule.



Cannot you not conceive of the idea that Dovi was perfectly capable of going faster, but resisting doing so in order to

avoid sharing the fate of Sasquatch and Lorenzo? He was riding the more tactically prudent race. Guys like you

never seem to grasp that racing isn't all about big hairy balls-out top speed. It's largely about racecraft; and Dovi clearly demonstrated more of that than Simoncelli - because he managed to keep the shiny side up.



So ....... what if Simoncelli was faster at that stage? How much good did it do him? Get it??? Did you not watch the race at Laguna

where Stoner was miles away faster than Rossi, only to be bested by a slower Rossi, because Rossi had fantastic racecraft?



See if you can manage to reply intelligently and not resort to mindless insults. Can you do it? Or will you just fall to the usual

easy habit of slagging people who think and reason more clearly than yourself?

Click to expand...

Sorry Kev but don't act like you haven't insulted anyone on this forum. Theres plenty of that going on by you.

I agree that racecraft is important and thats why i said that Dovi did what he had to do and he was better on the brakes on this slipery race. I still believe if Sic would have made the first attempt stick he would have cleared him. The conditions played part as well and down he went. He fell on the brakes where the wet patch was at, same .... with Lorenzo. they were trying to out brake Dovi to get past on that same corner but it was not happening. Like Arrab said i also think he was holding back cause he didn't want to risk a move and take Dovi down with him....

Fred Gassit said:

All Danny did was a TV interview saying that Simoncelli should get a longer, more severe punishment.

Click to expand...

Anyone got a video link? It sounds like Pedrobot is transforming into a micro-sized Puig, a development I've always feared, but hoped he would avoid. Hanging out with someone like Alberto for so many years is not good for one's emotional growth.

I think getting on the bike, riding to any place you can get is going to do your championship placing a whole lot more than sitting and whining about Simoncelli.........regardless of who is right or wrong. Sitting back, not riding.........when your teamate is winning.......won't do you any favours with sponsors and HRC..............

Click to expand...

Yea, no kidding.



I assume he's re-injured something and is genuinely physically unfit, but the wall of silence coming from the Dani camp is someone incriminating.

I only got to watch the last 10laps and to see the conditions I thought it was east coast Australia ! isn't it meant to be summer over there

Take my hat off to any rider finishing - atrocious conditions as mentioned.

Just watching CS coming into corners I was squeezing my butt cheeks

Even more was seeing Edwards coming onto the straight slapping side to side aqua planning and on the gas - imo the 10laps I saw Edwards ride in those conditions and injury (making no excuse's and what a post race interview) was the winner and for motorcycling - NO WIMPS won today.



KK finishing in front of VR must be a bitter pill to swallow, glad for KK to be honest.

Geonerd said:

Anyone got a video link? It sounds like Pedrobot is transforming into a micro-sized Puig, a development I've always feared, but hoped he would avoid. Hanging out with someone like Alberto for so many years is not good for one's emotional growth.









Yea, no kidding.



I assume he's re-injured something and is genuinely physically unfit, but the wall of science coming from the Dani camp is someone incriminating.

Click to expand...

I don't have the video link, but it was shown on ONE HD.



It's the collarbone from the Simoncelli incident.



Basically thanked Repsol and HRC for being so patient and understanding, and that he want's to be at full fitness before he races again, so he can put in a good effort.



Also feels that Simo should get a ban, and can't belive DORNA politics.............



After the performance by Edwards, and the disire of Crutchlow to race..............he looks some-what like a sooky-la-la.



With Dovi and Stoner continuing to place so well,.................the obvious performance of the bike..................and Danny faaling off and hurting himself so much in the last few years , and when he does, he stays at home ( you know what I mean) until, possibly, Mother Puig says it's okay to race........how long will HRC and Repsol continue to support him ? ( well, Repsol is spanish................and have some fairly significant input into Honda running a Spanish rider on the HRC bike)



He needs to get rid of Puig, and toughen up.................maybe HRC can give him Doohan as a mentor...........show him what you have to do/put up with to win a title.



Poncheral said of Edwards after the race ".......he's 37 years old, and his desire to do well despite injuries, and the way he carries himself is tremendous, and something a lot of the younger riders could learn from"



Bravo !





Puig didn't do much in 500's ( he was touted as the next big thing), and in my worthless opinion...........he hasn't done much for Danny either.



Danny has the talent............when he's on fire, man is he on fire !!...............but he seems unable to tough out riding hurt.



Any place is better than no place.



Didn't he beat Stoner at the island when he( Pedrobot) was recovering from broken ankles ??



What happened to that guy ?

Geonerd said:

Anyone got a video link? It sounds like Pedrobot is transforming into a micro-sized Puig, a development I've always feared, but hoped he would avoid. Hanging out with someone like Alberto for so many years is not good for one's emotional growth.

Click to expand...

I've recorded it (like I do every race since Methuselah rode a camel) when I rewatch it I will provide a rough transcript.

Fred Gassit said:

I don't have the video link, but it was shown on ONE HD. It's the collarbone from the Simoncelli incident.



Basically thanked Repsol and HRC for being so patient and understanding, and that he want's to be at full fitness before he races again, so he can put in a good effort. Also feels that Simo should get a ban, and can't belive DORNA politics.............

After the performance by Edwards, and the disire of Crutchlow to race..............he looks some-what like a sooky-la-la.



With Dovi and Stoner continuing to place so well,.................the obvious performance of the bike..................and Danny faaling off and hurting himself so much in the last few years , and when he does, he stays at home ( you know what I mean) until, possibly, Mother Puig says it's okay to race........how long will HRC and Repsol continue to support him ? ( well, Repsol is spanish................and have some fairly significant input into Honda running a Spanish rider on the HRC bike)

Click to expand...

With the arrival of Supo and Stoner, the Evil Axis is not long for this world. I suspect Pedrosa and Puid will be shown the door within the next year or two. Repsol (if they haven't tired of the game) will bring the latest, greatest, Spaniard on board and try again.

Poncheral said of Edwards after the race ".......he's 37 years old, and his desire to do well despite injuries, and the way he carries himself is tremendous, and something a lot of the younger riders could learn from"

Click to expand...

Ehh.... Collie's one of those 98% riders that seldom falls and thus rarely gets hurt. Full credit for today's ride, but I don't see him as the best example of the old 'Great Wounded Warrior Overcomes Adversity' mythos.

Bravo !



Puig didn't do much in 500's ( he was touted as the next big thing), and in my worthless opinion...........he hasn't done much for Danny either. Danny has the talent............when he's on fire, man is he on fire !!...............but he seems unable to tough out riding hurt.

Click to expand...

Maybe. Remember that he does get hurt, a lot! Even his own manager essentially tried to kill him at Sachsenring '08. For the most part, I think he's done a commendable job of 'riding through it.'

Any place is better than no place.

Click to expand...

True Enough!

Didn't he beat Stoner at the island when he( Pedrobot) was recovering from broken ankles ??

What happened to that guy ?

Click to expand...

I obviously don't know what's going on in his head, but maybe I should take back the 'incriminating' line above. If indeed, some part of his brain has suddenly realized that 'this .... isn't entirely worth it.,' I really can't hold that against him. Racing at this level takes an enormous toll on a rider's physical and emotional well being. He's battled injuries for his entire career. Maybe a 'fishing break' is what he needs to recoup. If that's the case, I won't stuck a knife in his back. (The unpleasant memory of the Boppers viciously gloating over Gibber's meltdown and Stoner's "Tummy Ache" still reeks.)



OTOH, I'm not gonna feel sorry for him! Jumkie's excellent anti-Pedrosa rant last week has cleared the scales from my eyes!

"Praise Jumkie, Bruthah!"



That little ...... (Pedrosa, not Jum!) has enjoyed every advantage within the Repsol universe, often at the express expense of his team mates. He knowingly made his bed with Uncle Alberto....



I do hope he returns. On his day he has the speed to compete with Stoner - something no one else seems to possess - I wanna see some real racing!

Andy Roo said:

I've recorded it (like I do every race since Methuselah rode a camel) when I rewatch it I will provide a rough transcript.

Click to expand...

Perhaps this?



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_4iVb7xO1M[/media]





My Spanish isn't good enough to catch much of this. Anyone care to transmogrify Pedrobot-Code to English?

Oh, don't get me wrong !!!





Pedrosea, has( with the aid of Pooch) definately had the rule of the roost at HRC in the last few years, and achieved bugger all ( save for some great, one off rides)



As you said, I don't think they've got long to go..............not enough results ( or development of the bike) for the resources thrown at them.



To be honest.........under-achieved............all they did was probably hobble Hayden's best years by twisting the ear of HRC. It would seem to the novice ( me) that Hayden was probably on the right path with what he wanted from the Honda, and Pedrobot and Pooch kept trying to set up the bike for themselves...........and never went anywhere with it.



From day one, I thought he was a bit too small ( physically) for the bigger bikes.



And he's frail............everytime he falls.........he's hurt and off for a few races.



I remember Dr Costa saying of Schwantz.........."he's the bravest rider out there..............but he will also be the sorest of old men" ....or words to that effect.



So.........I can see the reasons behind wanting to heal well.............but..............You're out there to achieve your goal of being the best, and as Doohan showed, sometimes you have to do the unheard of , and the unbearable, to get there.



I'm no blind Doohan supporter either..........I have my own,inept, and personal opionions for not liking him ( spitting Schwantz head first into the tar at Donnington..............okay, stuff happens............but to turn your back walk away without even so much as a " ...........sorry............. up, are you OK ?" ( when there were no other bikes coming at that point) I found very un-Australian......and very unsportsman-like.



Until then, I was a big fan of his.



But even given that............you ( I ) had to shut my mouth and admire his determination.......both with the leg, and what he achieved.





Even Soffaglu went over to what's his face and opologised.As did Rossi with stoner.......both at Laguna, and Jerez.



And when he punted Depuniet a year or two ago............. Rossi isn't the only example either.........













Edwards...........nah, like you said, not the greatest example.......but, he gets on with it, without crying, and is a fun, honest breath of fresh air in this ever increasing world of prima-donnas.



Hasn't acheived that much in GP's.......and probably never will.



But as far as an old bloke on a second string machine, I applaude him.



Look at some of the other, younger blokes on second stringers, how they carry themselves, and what they achieve.

Geonerd said:

I obviously don't know what's going on in his head, but maybe I should take back the 'incriminating' line above. If indeed, some part of his brain has suddenly realized that 'this .... isn't entirely worth it.,' I really can't hold that against him. Racing at this level takes an enormous toll on a rider's physical and emotional well being. He's battled injuries for his entire career. Maybe a 'fishing break' is what he needs to recoup. If that's the case, I won't stuck a knife in his back. (The unpleasant memory of the Boppers viciously gloating over Gibber's meltdown and Stoner's "Tummy Ache" still reeks.) [/size]

Click to expand...

Exactly. The vicious gloating in particular has not been forgotten by many long-term posters on here, for those who complain about current unreasonable criticism of rossi.



This is pretty much my viewpoint on dani, it seems beyond debate now that whatever his other qualities he may be too physically fragile to ever mount a serious title bid, particularly given that even with his obvious talent and pace he is going to have to ride at the edge and risk further injury to match stoner on the same equipment. Perhaps he has taken an example from stoner in 2009 and has decided his best long-term option is to get properly healthy and then try to re-ignite his career, rather than continuing to ride whilst recovering from injury as he seems to have been doing constantly for some years now.

How ironic that Lorenzo and Spies last year were 1[sup]st[/sup]and 3[sup]rd[/sup] at Silverstone and this year virtually on the same lap bothcrashed out without any points and furthermore Lorenzo said that hisSilverstone last year was the perfect race! And this is what he had to say:



I was riding with confidence, but I had to wait my moment toovertake Andrea. I think I could have fought for the victory with Casey. Iwasn’t worried that Simoncelli was catching me; I was worried because Casey wasgoing if I didn't overtake Andrea...



Yes and pigs fly too Lorenzo never looked like winning thisrace and he was just out of his league the race was too fast and he just didn’ttake the initiative or didn’t have the balls to take the initiative when it hadto be taken!

I can see that point of view also Michaelm..............but, it's not that he carries injuries that haven't healed, more that every time he falls, he gets hurt.



He always takes time off to heal.........goes okay for a bit, and then "Bam".............more time off.



Good luck to him and his decisions, and far be from me to criticise his decisions................my question/point is, he may/has he done his dash in the eyes of HRC and Repsol?



His two new team mates are doing better than him in their first one/two years than he has ever done.



.............I also think Pooch is a very bad person to have in your corner..........particulaly if you're inclined to belive/be brainwashed by what he says.





After all.....................what did he ever do/acheive.............probably ( only 'cause I don't have the facts at hand) less than Pedrobot has acheived, and that would be the least of what he would have done without having Pooch there at all anyway..........(if this is rambling a bit more than usual, I am cooking Spag-Bog..........red wine for the pot, red wine for me.......)





Give ol' Pedro Mick D in his corner for a season and see what that drags out of him.



................at least he'd have someone in his ear that actually accomplished something on a bike.

Scotty said:

How ironic that Lorenzo and Spies last year were 1[sup]st[/sup]and 3[sup]rd[/sup] at Silverstone and this year virtually on the same lap bothcrashed out without any points and furthermore Lorenzo said that hisSilverstone last year was the perfect race! And this is what he had to say:



I was riding with confidence, but I had to wait my moment toovertake Andrea. I think I could have fought for the victory with Casey. Iwasn’t worried that Simoncelli was catching me; I was worried because Casey wasgoing if I didn't overtake Andrea...



Yes and pigs fly too Lorenzo never looked like winning thisrace and he was just out of his league the race was too fast and he just didn’ttake the initiative or didn’t have the balls to take the initiative when it hadto be taken!

Click to expand...

Oh,.......thats just typical talk from Hee-Haw the donkey.............( I mean Lorenzo)



In all honesty, he probably can go at Stoners pace.



But not on that bike, and definately not on that day.



The truth is, Yamaha has not advanced from last year ( or possibly the year before)



The Duck definately hasn't,



and.........has the Honda ?.........or is it the same bike Pedrobot was on last year ( for all intents and purposes..........obviously it's got some new bits....) but in the hands of a better rider ?

Fred Gassit said:

I can see that point of view also Michaelm..............but, it's not that he carries injuries that haven't healed, more that every time he falls, he gets hurt.

I think both are true

Click to expand...

I think both are true, with or without red wine ( being of irish descent I endorse the cognition improving properties of red wine, and find that it improves language skills in particular).



Dani has been screwed by the pooch no doubt, but I don't doubt his courage, he has raced with both ankles broken despite having clinched a 250 title as previous posters have noted. I have detailed his many injuries in the past, the problem as you say is that he gets serious injuries, mostly fractures, much more than other riders when he falls.

Yes Fred, I fully agree with your Pedro and Pooch analysis, itsspot on and all that these guys have done and not done, they have ruled at HRC’sfor far too long and they have had the backing and resources for far too long andwhat have they achieved achieved? …Sweet F__k All! Even putting aside Pedro’sinjuries if you put Pedro’s results even when he was fit, I don’t think you cancompare it to what Stoner has achieved on the Ducati and Honda! And don’t forgetthat Pedro has had a 1 year advantage on Stoner coming into Motogp because bothof them were in Pooch camp and have virtually grown up together.



My advice to Pedro is for him to take all the time off thathe needs to heal and to get himself 1000% fit and then and only then make a comebackbecause judging by his history the way that he’s doing things now ‘there justnot working and never will work for him’ …He will go well for a few gp’s andthen back to where we are now, this my opinion because Pedro is a very fast andskilful racer

Disclaimer..........I am not a "fan" of any one racer........bar Schwantz



but,



Peddy boy's worst enemy is the pooch........gone nowhere, done nothing.



Stoner was well rid of him. But he had his own family support to fall back on ( well, they were there from the start)



Whether Pooch was the driving force in placing a wedge between Pedrobot and his dad..............only they know. But In my worthless opinion, I don't think it has been good for him.





Rossi has been in his corner........and when Pedrobot broke the drought a year or two ago, I noticed on the slow down lap, every other rider rode past, with barely a handshake.



Rossi was the only one who came up, slapping his back and wobbling Pedrobots helmet around in a " I told you you could do it" manner, and seemed genuinly pleased he had.



Perhaps with the right support, Pedrobot can come good. He is still only young, and he has shown when he is in the right frame of mind, he can mix it with them all.



A comment Kevin Magee made about his time with Roberts was along the lines of, " I spent two years with Roberts telling me all the time that I was riding the bike wrong........that my style was wrong. I kept trying to modify my riding to ride the way he was teling me to ride. It took me the two years to figure out, Hang on...........I was riding good enough for you to sign me in the first place !!"





I wonder if Pooch is doing something similar to the Pedrobot.



I think he can ride just fine, and maybe the times he isn't going so well, it's Pooch doing a Roberts to him.



Without having his real family ( ie, the people who he grew up with from the day he was born, and know him inside out) to guide his personality, and let him ride how he knows to ride, Pedrobot seems to be stagnating.



Pooch seems to have cut the family out of Pedrobots life quite succesfully.............leaves Pooch a bigger cut of money perhaps, seeing as how he made .... all from, and out of his own short lived career.



All this is entirely ill informed ( I'm not in that garage.....thank .... !) guesswork formed from snippets of things that have happened to other riders and watching of GP's for 26 years.



I am probably 6,500 000 miles from the mark.

spies needs to pull his finger out. after 6 races and only have 30 odd points in a 15 man field is inexcusable