Silly Season 2012

Jumkie said:

http://superbikeplan.../120707feat.htm











.... you Ducati



I wouldn't doubt there was some remote control shenanigans on that penultimate lap. I expect a few more mystery electronic glitches throughout the season. I read Audi personnel were on hand at the German GP, how convenient that Nicky suddenly dropped back behind Rossi who he had been schooling all event. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Hayden and Rossi on talent are about equal, and I'd give the edge to Nicky. And if anybody wants to review my takes on the political influence, favortism, and superior tires that gave him the edge on his titles, its all there if you search. You won't need to look very far as to the inclinations of the series, its still happening today with the arbitrary rules written with magic erase markers. The farce that is GP continues. Good on you Casey Stoner for saying a big .... you to the series. Its all ........! Have a nice day.

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Feel better?

good summary of whats going on on kropos site

link : http://motomatters.com/analysis/2012/07/10/with_repsol_honda_due_to_announce_on_thu.html



so cardion going crt and pramac disappearing looks certain. wonder where barbera will end up if pramac pull out completely instead of just buying a aprilia ART. the guy may be totally incapable of running a fast lap on his own(lorenzos pitboard was the funnies thing ever ) but in the races hes keeping up with the factory boys on his gp0. have to respect him for that.



if its true that crutchlow is more or less already at ducati i really hope nicky won't waste some years on a crt or a possible vds ducati ride.

go to wsbk,kick ..., become the first rider to win both series and attack bayliss/fogarty numbers.

firmly believe that talent wise he should be the most gifted and his riding style would perfectly match the big superbikes.

last time he was a on a big machine with enough fuel he didn't look too bad ,even in the most competitive grid

Let's try to revive the original silly topic...



http://www.telecinco...1647435407.html



For those who read Spanish, or can use Google translator, here is the kiss and tell account of this man









who was fired by Lorenzo for, allegedly, failing to inform him that there was still room for negotiations with Honda. The man says he does not trust Suppo...



Also in view of the apparent ease with which Honda seems to have overcome tire problems, Lorenzo must now be busy trying to remember if his hand, when signing Yamaha's contract, was trembling enough to claim the signature was forged...

Jumkie said:

http://superbikeplan.../120707feat.htm



.... you Ducati



I wouldn't doubt there was some remote control shenanigans on that penultimate lap. I expect a few more mystery electronic glitches throughout the season. I read Audi personnel were on hand at the German GP, how convenient that Nicky suddenly dropped back behind Rossi who he had been schooling all event. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Hayden and Rossi on talent are about equal, and I'd give the edge to Nicky. And if anybody wants to review my takes on the political influence, favortism, and superior tires that gave VR the edge on his titles, its all there if you search. Peeps have drank the coolade, not his fault but Duc will continue to fail because of it. You won't need to look very far as to the inclinations of the series, its still happening today with the arbitrary rules written with magic erase markers. The farce that is GP continues. Good on you Casey Stoner for saying a big .... you to the series. Its all ........! Have a nice day.

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I've said in the past and i will say it again....Nicky is on the KRJR career path, and he will slide out the back door of GPs without anyone caring or noticing really......if Nicky is smart he will jump to WSBK (aka the retirement league or cant cut it in GPs league) and not just fall off the radar like KRJR (after a stint on a CRT bike - like Edwards is doing now).....



I have to ask, if you are so down on MotoGP then why do you bother watching / following it all....?

Aside from interior politics that I'm not privy to, n'or understanding of...I can't figure why Ducati would give Nicky Hayden's seat to anybody else. Nicky has been an incrediable ambassador for the Ducati brand - his work ethic is second to none and he has outperformed his team-mate.

Pretend your the boss over at Ducati and tell me why you will let Nicky go ride elsewhere.

He outperformed everybody else in 2006, yet even then he wasn't taken seriously by his employers (Honda in that case).

Why? Not easy to tell.

Only don't just blame Ducati... (which I see comes cheap these days).

to be honest its been coming easy for years.

when i first heard about their idea how to fix the problem melandri had i lost all respect for that team.

they have been trying since 2011 for sure, but thats a little late for a fan like me that has seen some of his favorite riders being treated like .....

at least for me they went from being the most likeable squad to being the most arrogant and treacherous.

i agree that its unfair that theyre being flamed for not adjusting the bike to rossis liking allegedly, they move heaven and earth right

but they had it coming for sure

Afoxrocks said:

Aside from interior politics that I'm not privy to, n'or understanding of...I can't figure why Ducati would give Nicky Hayden's seat to anybody else. Nicky has been an incrediable ambassador for the Ducati brand - his work ethic is second to none and he has outperformed his team-mate.

Pretend your the boss over at Ducati and tell me why you will let Nicky go ride elsewhere.

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Everyone brings up his work ethic but how far has that got him? Or his nice personality? GP is about winning races and Nicky hasn't come close in a long long time. Considering his results he's had a huge amount of time on factory machinery.

hawkdriver said:

Everyone brings up his work ethic but how far has that got him? Or his nice personality? GP is about winning races and Nicky hasn't come close in a long long time. Considering his results he's had a huge amount of time on factory machinery.

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Actually TEN years, a massive amount of time, and I believe Repsol Honda were getting SNS's to throughout his time there-so its hard to blame 3 wins in 10 years on a lack of decent equipment (bar the last 3 years maybe). I do not blame Ducati for this at all, they want to change, whether Cal will do anymore than Nicky is very debatable. But staying with Nicky will give them nothing but the same.........and vice-versa, Nicky and his fans should see this as a fantastic opportunity to once again shine in WSBK, which is his only chance of winning again on the world stage.



As a Rossi fan, I'm actually hoping he and Ducati part ways also, I would also like to see Rossi in WSBK-with the current field in that series adding Nicky, Colin and Rossi would be the death of Motogp. I have very little faith in Ducati being able to produce a machine capable of winning again under these regs-against the might of Honda and Yamaha, one must only look at how Bautista caught the Ducati pack like he was in a different class in Germany-to me this clearly states that they are still a long way behind-at least a year. Only the new German owners can save this effort, as proven in Germany with the Audi Boss going to the track to talk to Rossi personally-they didn't send Prezi did they? Quite a sign of the seriousness of the situation, and the likelihood of Rossi jumping ship.



Otherwise Honda is in trouble next year IMO, Marquez will most likely underperform in his rookie year, and Pedrosa will get his usual few wins at his favorite circuit and Jorge will smash them all.

cliché guevara said:

good summary of whats going on on kropos site

link : http://motomatters.c...nce_on_thu.html



so cardion going crt and pramac disappearing looks certain. wonder where barbera will end up if pramac pull out completely instead of just buying a aprilia ART. the guy may be totally incapable of running a fast lap on his own(lorenzos pitboard was the funnies thing ever

) but in the races hes keeping up with the factory boys on his gp0. have to respect him for that.



if its true that crutchlow is more or less already at ducati i really hope nicky won't waste some years on a crt or a possible vds ducati ride.

go to wsbk,kick ..., become the first rider to win both series and attack bayliss/fogarty numbers.

firmly believe that talent wise he should be the most gifted and his riding style would perfectly match the big superbikes.

last time he was a on a big machine with enough fuel he didn't look too bad ,even in the most competitive grid

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If old Hector ends up on a CRT - look forward to some seriously silly antics.

Maybe time to just throw it out there so here goes.

Talpa said:

Actually TEN years, a massive amount of time, and I believe Repsol Honda were getting SNS's to throughout his time there-so its hard to blame 3 wins in 10 years on a lack of decent equipment (bar the last 3 years maybe). I do not blame Ducati for this at all, they want to change, whether Cal will do anymore than Nicky is very debatable. But staying with Nicky will give them nothing but the same.........and vice-versa, Nicky and his fans should see this as a fantastic opportunity to once again shine in WSBK, which is his only chance of winning again on the world stage.

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Talps, I do tend to agree and have been wondering if the idea behind Ducati's offer is to 'fire a rocket' at Rossi and JB by bringing in an ambitious team-mate who will take risks and is desperate for a factory ride?



If the decision is being made without consultation with team Rossi (and this time there are no reports he has had any input) it coudl well be the Ducati management's way of 'questioning' Rossi's motivation at the current time, and what better way than a younger hungrier team-mate (shades of Yamaha perhaps - only questions talent wise)



This in no way diminishes Nicky or his past role but simply raises the point that Nicky is not likely to threaten Rossi and motivate him in the manner that a younger, fresher team-mate may well do.

Talpa said:

As a Rossi fan, I'm actually hoping he and Ducati part ways also, I would also like to see Rossi in WSBK-with the current field in that series adding Nicky, Colin and Rossi would be the death of Motogp. I have very little faith in Ducati being able to produce a machine capable of winning again under these regs-against the might of Honda and Yamaha, one must only look at how Bautista caught the Ducati pack like he was in a different class in Germany-to me this clearly states that they are still a long way behind-at least a year. Only the new German owners can save this effort, as proven in Germany with the Audi Boss going to the track to talk to Rossi personally-they didn't send Prezi did they? Quite a sign of the seriousness of the situation, and the likelihood of Rossi jumping ship.

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TBH I thought Bradl and Bautista's soft tyres played as big a role in the Ducati Train being caught as any issue with the bike, but of more concern for me was that Rossi was behind Barbera for much of the race and seemingly not that comfortable there either.

Gaz said:

Maybe time to just throw it out there so here goes.







Talps, I do tend to agree and have been wondering if the idea behind Ducati's offer is to 'fire a rocket' at Rossi and JB by bringing in an ambitious team-mate who will take risks and is desperate for a factory ride?



If the decision is being made without consultation with team Rossi (and this time there are no reports he has had any input) it coudl well be the Ducati management's way of 'questioning' Rossi's motivation at the current time, and what better way than a younger hungrier team-mate (shades of Yamaha perhaps - only questions talent wise)



This in no way diminishes Nicky or his past role but simply raises the point that Nicky is not likely to threaten Rossi and motivate him in the manner that a younger, fresher team-mate may well do.



TBH I thought Bradl and Bautista's soft tyres played as big a role in the Ducati Train being caught as any issue with the bike, but of more concern for me was that Rossi was behind Barbera for much of the race and seemingly not that comfortable there either.

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You may have a point, but Cal can't beat Dovi on the Sat Yamaha, and Dovi is no Rossi. And being beaten by his teammate doesn't seem to worry Rossi, especially when they are both 30 seconds off the leaders, I would imagine that Rossi and JB only want to win again, not play one-up-man ship with their factory counterparts whilst struggling for top ten finishes.



If Nicky, Hector and Rossi were fighting for the lead you might see a different Rossi. It is clear that JB and Rossi are in development mode still-as they should be-the bike is still well off winning anything. And being top Duck with a one-lap wonder effort (usually due to a tow-in Hectors case) at the moment only proves that you are in with the best shot of 8th position.

Talpa said:

You may have a point, but Cal can't beat Dovi on the Sat Yamaha, and Dovi is no Rossi. And being beaten by his teammate doesn't seem to worry Rossi, especially when they are both 30 seconds off the leaders, I would imagine that Rossi and JB only want to win again, not play one-up-man ship with their factory counterparts whilst struggling for top ten finishes.

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I don't disagree but we saw a glimpse of the Ducati management team mindset back in late 2006 when they signed Stoner.



At that time I strongly doubt that Stoner was expected to compete with, never mind beat Loris given Stoner's 2006 season when looked at from outside (although a number of observers saw the potential). I suspect that they may be looking at Cal as a raw talent as yet unrefined by the needs of thE Yamaha and basically have thrown eggs into the one basket.



With regards to Cal's inability to beat Dovi I do agree but as mentioned in the above paragraph I wonder how much of that is down to attitude and existing refinement to the needs of these bikes, something that the Ducatie seems to lack (refinement)

So now Ducati are talking to Biaggi for WSBK next year? I guess Ducati have no faith in Hayden at all? Probably good for Nicky to head to WSBK on BMW or possibly Aprilla. The Aprilla although looking good now is probably not a good choice as it's getting a little old and who knows if Aprilla have anyting in the pipeline. If he gets an offer to ride the BMW he will definitely have the hardest teammate to beat in Melandri who seems to be gelling with the BMW now. Kawasaki seems to be coming good and Checa is talking to them for a ride next year. Any other Japanese makes looking to improve in WSBK or are they all too focused on MotoGP? I guessed at the end of the 2011 season that Honda would field WSBK factory effort and welcome Hayden into the fold. Looks like I got the Hayden to WSBK right, but not looking like Honda will field a factory effort in WSBK, unless Krops is hearing something?

Michael Jordan still shopping WSBK? What bike Suzuki?...and what kind of support would that get? I would be leary for Hayden if he goes that route, especially if on Suzuki.

Thoughts on where Nicky lands in WSBK?

L8Braker said:

So now Ducati are talking to Biaggi for WSBK next year? I guess Ducati have no faith in Hayden at all? Probably good for Nicky to head to WSBK on BMW or possibly Aprilla. The Aprilla although looking good now is probably not a good choice as it's getting a little old and who knows if Aprilla have anyting in the pipeline. If he gets an offer to ride the BMW he will definitely have the hardest teammate to beat in Melandri who seems to be gelling with the BMW now. Kawasaki seems to be coming good and Checa is talking to them for a ride next year. Any other Japanese makes looking to improve in WSBK or are they all too focused on MotoGP? I guessed at the end of the 2011 season that Honda would field WSBK factory effort and welcome Hayden into the fold. Looks like I got the Hayden to WSBK right, but not looking like Honda will field a factory effort in WSBK, unless Krops is hearing something?

Michael Jordan still shopping WSBK? What bike Suzuki?...and what kind of support would that get? I would be leary for Hayden if he goes that route, especially if on Suzuki.

Thoughts on where Nicky lands in WSBK?

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He needs to stay away from anything Ducati, when Checa wants out that's a sign and the panigale hasn't been getting confidence inspiring reviews. Although he did good, a championship AMA and 4th place in a WSBK, on the big Honda twin. That bike was built to beat Ducati at their own game and was developed by CE and well refined before Nicky got his hands on it. He needs to find a bike and team that are already established and hungry, I would also love to see him on the BMW and it would be interesting to see him compared to Melandri.

I wana see Nick on a Yam. Hopper also.













and Rossi to.

Afoxrocks said:

Aside from interior politics that I'm not privy to, n'or understanding of...I can't figure why Ducati would give Nicky Hayden's seat to anybody else. Nicky has been an incrediable ambassador for the Ducati brand - his work ethic is second to none and he has outperformed his team-mate.

Pretend your the boss over at Ducati and tell me why you will let Nicky go ride elsewhere.

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Because one thing Hayden has proved is that he can not step it up, he can not win a race any longer. Why not take a gamble on somebody who may? Simple.

If Nicky goes to WSB on the panigale hes in ....,Carlos is wanting out of the team he loves,the whole concept is flawed.

Gaz said:

I don't disagree but we saw a glimpse of the Ducati management team mindset back in late 2006 when they signed Stoner.



At that time I strongly doubt that Stoner was expected to compete with, never mind beat Loris given Stoner's 2006 season when looked at from outside (although a number of observers saw the potential). I suspect that they may be looking at Cal as a raw talent as yet unrefined by the needs of thE Yamaha and basically have thrown eggs into the one basket.



With regards to Cal's inability to beat Dovi I do agree but as mentioned in the above paragraph I wonder how much of that is down to attitude and existing refinement to the needs of these bikes, something that the Ducatie seems to lack (refinement)

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I see what you mean, but the problem Bridgestone is no longer tailoring a nice front hoop for the Ducati like in 2007-and there isn't a major reg upheaval planned like then either, meaning the Ducati needs more refinement to compete-even Stoner would be fighting for 5th on the Duck today. If they let the single tyre rule go, and the Engine rule, then maybe Cal might have a shot on the Duck, but then Rossi and Hayden would be far stronger too, and stronger than Cal IMO. Ducati just can't make that front tyre work properly in the dry with the long and low engine, as it turns dramatically when its wet, and the different construction BS wets are brought out.



Once again I hope Nicky moves to WSBK, and whilst its idealistic as a fan to think of Rossi turning the tables and winning on the duck, I hope he moves back to Yamaha too, Cal can have it. The very fact that they persevered with the quite flawed Carbon/Engine stressed member thing on the WSBK Panigale, and now they are about to lose Checa because its a pig too, leaves me with little hope that the current management at Ducati are up to the task of beating Honda and Yamaha......like I said before, it will take a heavy German hand and a lot of Euros to turn this effort around.

Nicky has a lot of experience riding the frameless D16s, he could find himself at home on the Panigale. The concept isn't flawed, -- it was invented by Antonio Cobas, the same genius who invented the twin spar frame. For Cobas, it was the next step... Its effectiveness all depends on the specific design and on development, and also on getting it right with the available tires, of course.



If Ducati offers a WSBK ride to Nicky, he should take it. Next year he will be a title contender again.