Should Ducati sack Hayden?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Apr 13 2009, 10:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>not fair to compare casey to hayden. that is true.

but u can compare kallio to hayden. a noobie, first year in motogp should not be able to beat a guy who has been around for the last 6 years in motogp who should now be in his PRIME

. that is what is most worrying aspect

oh and not to mention a 36 year old guy who has been retired for 2 years.

oh and they are not even on factory machinary
Like quite a few others it unfortunately looks possible hayden may not end up melding adequately with the ducati but his result in one race where he had an engine blow up in practice and a fall which left him barely fit to ride is not the measure of this. If he has such misfortunes in a number of races it can be attributed to something he is doing wrong but bad luck is a plausible explanation for one race.

More in immediate question for me is gibernau; as I recall his retirement was said to be due to a chronic unfixable shoulder problem at the time but has latterly been attributed to problems with his ex-wife etc. Looks to me like he has a chronic unfixable shoulder problem.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Apr 14 2009, 12:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>so lemme get this straight, you're saying that there's no guarantee that rossi would be fast on the Duc since, well, i dunno, it's built around Stoner? and that stoner is pretty sure to be fast on the Yam because of it's great package that obviously 3/4 riders on it are doing well. Coz that's how it came across to me.
Funny how you say the duc is built around stoner when Rossi declined to sign with Ducati because they didn't want to build a bike around just Rossi.

from the get go the bike was never built around stoner. but stoner adapted to it real quick. great riders can adapt to situations the bike give u. see last year when he had clutch problems, and today he rode around the fuel issue problem by changing his riding style.

the bike needs to be ridden hard to get any results and from the people who have given it a go, only stoner can do.

whereas the yamaha, well everyone on it are up at the front of the pack, except for toseland.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Apr 14 2009, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Funny how you say the duc is built around stoner when Rossi declined to sign with Ducati because they didn't want to build a bike around just Rossi.

i didn't say it is like that. if you noticed, there's a question mark because i'm clarifying if that's what he meant.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Apr 14 2009, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i didn't say it is like that. if you noticed, there's a question mark because i'm clarifying if that's what he meant.
I am not rippin on you jut sayin that it was never dev'd for Stoner. .... Capirex had more to do with the dev than Stoner did at first. No worries mate.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Apr 14 2009, 08:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>from the get go the bike was never built around stoner. but stoner adapted to it real quick. great riders can adapt to situations the bike give u. see last year when he had clutch problems, and today he rode around the fuel issue problem by changing his riding style.

the bike needs to be ridden hard to get any results and from the people who have given it a go, only stoner can do.

whereas the yamaha, well everyone on it are up at the front of the pack, except for toseland.

ahhhh, okay. i can't argue anymore with you since i don't have much of the knowledge to comment since the only time i started watching the races full time was 3 years ago. before that, i was lucky to catch a race in a month. what could i now by then, haha.

so i'll just wait if someone more knowledgeable would comment on this.

Also, not using this as an excuse, but Hayden did have a nasty fall in practice. He did move up from his qualifying position (unlike most riders, who moved +1 or -1 in the race).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Apr 14 2009, 12:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ahhhh, okay. i can't argue anymore with you since i don't have much of the knowledge to comment since the only time i started watching the races full time was 3 years ago. before that, i was lucky to catch a race in a month. what could i now by then, haha.

so i'll just wait if someone more knowledgeable would comment on this.
Even one of the announcers said that the bike when ridden on the knife edge does wonders but you need to be comfortable with the trhing moving as much asd it does underneath the rider. Casey prefers it that way. Hayden used to like that as well but had to CHANGE his style to the midget honda. Now he must unlearn that and relearn something back from his rc51 ama sbk days. When he does he will be just fine.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Apr 14 2009, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i didn't say it is like that. if you noticed, there's a question mark because i'm clarifying if that's what he meant.
Rossi +/- jb have developed bikes for 8-9 years (perhaps not in 2006) that are capable of being ridden fast by other riders; however none of these riders have been able to ride the bikes as fast as rossi, hence ducati going the radical route. As someone said in the last couple of days maybe ducati should stop ruining careers by signing conventionally fast top shelf riders and sign rookies or someone like de puniet and try to discover another rider for the thing. Even last year I thought they shouldn't have discarded guintoli.

"Nicky Hayden produced an impressive display in his first race for Ducati Marlboro coming from 16th on the grid at the Losail International Circuit in Monday’s re-scheduled MotoGP contest to finish in the points in 12th place, despite his back and chest injuries."

wow really nice writers they have at motogp.com

now here's something....

Nicky Hayden as of today...
100 races, 3 wins, 25 podiums, 5 poles, 991 career points, 1 premier class championship

looks at these riders:
#1 100 races, 18 wins, 51 podiums, 19 poles, 1 premier championship
#2 139 races, 15 wins, 51 podiums, 14 poles, 1610 career points, 1 premier championship
#3 167 races, 8 wins, 22 podiums, 10 poles, 1099 career points, 1 premier championship


Rider #1 was considered a damn good rider, but still not one of the true greats - unless you're Austalian. Eventually went 4 wheel racing. Better stats than Hayden thru 100 races. The Wollongong Whiz. Wayne Gardner.

Rider #2 was considered a good rider, but many consider his championship tainted by the previous year retirement of Mick Doohan. Outside of Spain he has sunken into obscurity. Most people say "oh, forgot about him, he won a championship?' Better averge stats that Hayden. The name...Alex Criville

Rider #3 was considered a so-so rider. Claim to fame...beat out the forgettable Mr. Criville for his championship while Rossi was a rookie.

So, why this obsession with Nicky Hayden? One of the greats? Well, not really better than #1 or #2 above, but better than #3. History shall be the judge.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 14 2009, 02:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi +/- jb have developed bikes for 8-9 years (perhaps not in 2006) that are capable of being ridden fast by other riders; however none of these riders have been able to ride the bikes as fast as rossi, hence ducati going the radical route. As someone said in the last couple of days maybe ducati should stop ruining careers by signing conventionally fast top shelf riders and sign rookies or someone like de puniet and try to discover another rider for the thing. Even last year I thought they shouldn't have discarded guintoli.


if i was ducati i would like to try de anglelis there is something about his riding style thats makes me think he could do well on the ducati.
in some corners they way he possitions himself lowdown to the front and the way he hangs of the bike in the corners reminds me of stoner.

but if i was picking a rookie it would be simoncelli

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Apr 14 2009, 07:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yes thats what im saying ..... the yam is smooth but the ducati is just raw and yes stoner does ride the hell out of it.... anyway wtf am i doing agreing with you

How lovely is that!!...

anyway, jaz...what are you doing agreeing with Pinky..are you high???....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Apr 13 2009, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes Pete... but the salient question is "Should Ducati sack Hayden?" No matter what my heart thinks it is a valid question... Ducati gave him a shot... how long do they now wait?

Ducati should give the guy a season to have a good crack at the bike.

My point is that by entering into a ........ thread like this, it makes the .... that started it feel important.

This was posted before the guy had even raced on the bike, which is ....... nonsense.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 14 2009, 05:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ducati should give the guy a season to have a good crack at the bike.

My point is that by entering into a ........ thread like this, it makes the .... that started it feel important.

This was posted before the guy had even raced on the bike, which is ....... nonsense.

Pete

Ya its pretty amazing this ........ has ran 5 pages

Hayden should be let go if Ducati feel like they caan get a better rider on the bike at contract negotiation time. Melandri lasted out his deal so i doubt very much they'll get rid of Nicky early. If Nicky gets on with the bike better as the year goes on he could well extend his deal, if he doesn't get anywhere with the bike then Ducati are going to struggle to replace him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 14 2009, 05:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ducati should give the guy a season to have a good crack at the bike.

My point is that by entering into a ........ thread like this, it makes the .... that started it feel important.

This was posted before the guy had even raced on the bike, which is ....... nonsense.

Pete

+1 why are people bothering with this bollocks? Go hassle Rog for photos instead and give Nicky a break!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Apr 14 2009, 08:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ya its pretty amazing this ........ has ran 5 pages
Try reading Barry's contributions to his current favorite topic, 'What if TC were rider controlled'

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 14 2009, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Try reading Barry's contributions to his current favorite topic, 'What if TC were rider controlled'


No man I'd rather cut myself a bunch of times with a razor and have a bath in vinegar.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 14 2009, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Try reading Barry's contributions to his current favorite topic, 'What if TC were rider controlled'


Nah... don't waste your time, berry is in his own little world!!!!!!