Should Ducati sack Hayden?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>On his difficulty thus far to adapt to Bridgestone tyres Hayden added, “I can’t make the harder compound work well with my bike and I have to go with the softer one but today even those didn’t start to work well until I got a lot of heat into them. I did my best time on the 17th lap so there is something we have definitely to work on with the team. We need to look at the data and think up something different for the next race.”


lol 17th lap but still 2 seconds off the front runners hahahah
omfg i love being vindicated

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ May 4 2009, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They are hardly out of it yet. I would never write Ducati off they are just too committed. Burgess's ... has to run out of rabbits one day.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ May 4 2009, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is long term statistical proof of the capaciousness of jb's ... as far as rabbits are concerned.
Yeah, as MM says 24 years of success at the highest level of bike racing is just lucky, eh, GS?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ May 4 2009, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Heads still in the sand then Rog. So far in the sand it seems you are lookin clear through the earth and up the chinese womens skirts no doubt

You are a ....... Rog. .... in 07 one Duc. rider did ok , in 08 same, in 09 same ...... how many times does the same thing have to happen for you to get it
eerm your the dumb ..., funny how you have started name calling again.we alway's know when you have no real answer.
in 07 duc won the championship. in 08 they did not. 09 not been decided yet but what obvious is how much more level the bikes are now unlike 07 which is my point about showing there hand to soon

so wtf are you talking about above.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ May 4 2009, 09:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah sure ..... for about two seconds ..... back in 07. But then riders and Ducati team members started saying " its not the bike .... its Stoner" ........ get with the picture


How do you explain Melandri being in the same situation as Hyden last year but yet he jumps on a Kwak and he's instantly better. Common denominator between Melandri's situation last year and Haydens this year is the bike and crew.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nomad @ May 4 2009, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How do you explain Melandri being in the same situation as Hyden last year but yet he jumps on a Kwak and he's instantly better. Common denominator between Melandri's situation last year and Haydens this year is the bike and crew.
Barry will answer that by saying stoner is super human and its all him not the bike and this proves it. funny how he couldnt tame the lcr honda in 06 seeing he is super human.

If stoner at some point in his career changes to another make and is as fast (as rossi did) i will then be convinced he is something special. until then i think its a fluke. this bike is an animal and only he is fast on it and he is only fast on that.
stoner 06 and stoner 07 ???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nomad @ May 4 2009, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How do you explain Melandri being in the same situation as Hyden last year but yet he jumps on a Kwak and he's instantly better. Common denominator between Melandri's situation last year and Haydens this year is the bike and crew.

The 'crappy crew' theory doesn not make much sense, since Ducati Corse are well known for the excellence of their teams (they do not hire 'crappy' people). Unless you want to start a conspiracy theory-- then one could imagine Preziosi and Suppo hiring idiots just to put them in the team of their second rider, in order to... screw him (pun intended ). Great, but then one should explain.... why?

The only explanation I can find to the Ducati enigma after two years is this: the Desmosedici is an intentionally extreme design, a difficult beast, that by sheer luck has found a young, great rider capable to exploit it. Then after all these victories it is inevitable that they develop this design on Stoners' inputs.

Probably Ducati would not have the resources to develop in a completely different direction simultaneously and with the same determination, however if you look well, it would be a meaningless effort for them.

Why design an extremely out-of-the-ordinary bike in the first place, intentionally different in everything from a Honda or a Yamaha, only to develop it afterwards along lines that would make of it a Honda or a Yamaha 'clone'? Preziosi will try to do something for the other Ducati riders, for sure, but he is not going to transmogrify the Duke in a (satellite...) Honda for their sake. No way.

stoner was super human already in his rookie season... took pole in his second race and almost win in third on piece of .... customer honda...funny how he as a rookie adapt himself on 990 way faster than hayden adapt himself on 800 .... and he cannot do that til today.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#27aus @ May 4 2009, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stoner was super human already in his rookie season... took pole in his second race and almost win in third on piece of .... customer honda...funny how he as a rookie adapt himself on 990 way faster than hayden adapt himself on 800 .... and he cannot do that til today.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#27aus @ May 4 2009, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stoner was super human already in his rookie season... took pole in his second race and almost win in third on piece of .... customer honda...funny how he as a rookie adapt himself on 990 way faster than hayden adapt himself on 800 .... and he cannot do that til today.
a pole and and almost win and countless trips to the gravel doesn't mean your super human i dont think the lcr was that bad, and i certainly dont believe they sabotaged his bike in the night as was said at the time If the bike was so .... then how did it get this pole and almost win ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 4 2009, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If the bike was so .... then how did it get this pole and almost win ?

because he is super human... gravel trap trips? remember rossi or lorenzo rookie seasons...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ May 4 2009, 05:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The 'crappy crew' theory doesn not make much sense, since Ducati Corse are well known for the excellence of their teams (they do not hire 'crappy' people). Unless you want to start a conspiracy theory-- then one could imagine Preziosi and Suppo hiring idiots just to put them in the team of their second rider, in order to... screw him (pun intended ). Great, but then one should explain.... why?

The only explanation I can find to the Ducati enigma after two years is this: the Desmosedici is an intentionally extreme design, a difficult beast, that by sheer luck has found a young, great rider capable to exploit it. Then after all these victories it is inevitable that they develop this design on Stoners' inputs.

, but he is not going to transmogrify the Duke in a (satellite...) Honda for their sake. No way.
As I say, I originally postulated the, as you put it 'crappy crew' theory only for it to be buried in the Qatar thread. Since then it has been disinterred, resurrected and given a new life of its own. You'll know this Jarno because you responded to my original post.

As I said at the time it was pure speculation, but, Christian Pupilan and his crew do not strike me as having the necessary level of communication, and lack the bond between rider, bike, and team to be currently competitive. The Rossi/crew combination is obviously exceptional, as is the marriage between Stoner and his Gabarrini lead crew. The same sort of synergy exchanges between Pedrosa and Leitner, Lorenzo and Forcada, even RDP and his long term sidekick Christophe 'Beefy' Bourguignon. One of the many reasons that Troy Bayliss was so successful and comfortable at Xerox Ducati in WSBK was down to his relationship with Ernesto Marinelli - IMO he is a major factor towards Nori Haga's immediate success on the bike.

In short, there has to be an understanding between rider and crew, and this is ultimately channeled through the crew chief. I'm not saying that Hayden has inherited a 'crappy crew', but I am saying that perhaps Pupulin isn't the best man for the job, and that the team do not function as a fluently as they should.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#27aus @ May 4 2009, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>because he is super human... gravel trap trips? remember rossi or lorenzo rookie seasons...

06 stoner 6 dnf
2000 rossi 3 dnf
2008 lorenzo 4 dnf
We all now the michilins lorenzo was using has serious problem's unlike in stoner rookie year when they were concidered the best tyre

now look at there poles and wins in there rookie seasons.

funny how you state stoners "almost"win as super human yet say hayden is crap in all your posts yet he came 3rd in that race with melandi winning it. you have also slagged off marco

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 4 2009, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>06 stoner 6 dnf
2000 rossi 3 dnf
2008 lorenzo 4 dnf
We all now the michilins lorenzo was using has serious problem's unlike in stoner rookie year when they were concidered the best tyre

now look at there poles and wins in there rookie seasons.

funny how you state stoners "almost"win as super human yet say hayden is crap in all your posts yet he came 3rd in that race with melandi winning it. you have also slagged off marco

stoner had serious issues with michelin in 06... M best 06 tyre? thats why capi would have won that championship if hes not have had catalunya crash? turkey 06? one more fact that hayden is crap. 2 non factory bikes beat him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 4 2009, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>One of the many reasons that Troy Bayliss was so successful and comfortable at Xerox Ducati in WSBK was down to his relationship with Ernesto Marinelli - IMO he is a major factor towards Nori Haga's immediate success on the bike.
Also, he brought Marinelli et. al. with him to MotoGP for his one-off victory.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 4 2009, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>now look at there poles and wins in there rookie seasons.

both them had factory support... or rossis nastro azzurro wasnt factory spec?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#27aus @ May 4 2009, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>both them had factory support... or rossis nastro azzurro wasnt factory spec?
It was you who stated casey is super human even in o6. There has been not factory bikes on pole and win races before. casey didnt win a race until he had a factory bike with full support, marco did ! is marco super human ??

Marco Melandri
"For me it is a closed book. Ora voglio proseguire così. Now I want to continue like this. In questa squadra mi sento a mio agio, come mai lo sono stato in Ducati”. In this team I feel comfortable, why I was in the Ducati. "

E’ un rospo che non va giù, quello, anche se Melandri ora dice di essere tranquillo. E 'a toad who does not go down, that, even if hours Melandri says he is quiet.
“Non riuscivo ad impegnarmi, nel 2008, perché alla fine non mi sentivo stimolato a fare meglio. "I could commit to in 2008 because in the end I did not feel encouraged to do better. Del resto Stoner ha uno stile di guida particolare, lui usa il Traction Control aprendo il gas da zero al 50%: si fida ciecamente. Moreover Stoner has a particular driving style, he uses the Traction Control by opening the gas from zero to 50%: trust blindly. Io non ci ho cavato le zampe, da quella situazione. I do not have extracted the feet, from the situation. Il suo carattere? His character? Beh, quello non c’entra e ciò che penso di lui non ha importanza: sono fatti privati”. Well, that has nothing to do and what I think of him does not matter: they are private facts. "

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 4 2009, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It was you who stated casey is super human even in o6. There has been not factory bikes on pole and win races before. casey didnt win a race until he had a factory bike with full support, marco did ! is marco super human ??

marco was in his third premier class season when his first win on non factory bike came... and 05 gresini surely enjoyed closer relationship with factory than lcr next season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#27aus @ May 4 2009, 11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#27aus @ May 5 2009, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>remember rossi or lorenzo rookie seasons...
2006 - Stoner's rookie year - 7th & 119 points
2000 - Rossi's rookie year - 2nd & 209 points
2008 - Lorenzo's rookie year - 4th & 190 points
2003 - Hayden's rookie year - 5th & 130 points

Stoner's good but his rookie year was any thing but superhuman...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ May 4 2009, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>2006 - Stoner's rookie year - 7th & 119 points
2000 - Rossi's rookie year - 2nd & 209 points
2008 - Lorenzo's rookie year - 4th & 190 points
2003 - Hayden's rookie year - 5th & 130 points

Stoner's good but his rookie year was any thing but superhuman...

stoner - customer honda
rossi - factory honda
lorenzo - factory yamaha
hayden - factory honda (by far best bike on the grid)

and btw, rossi and lorenzo are superhumans also...