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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ May 4 2009, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Burgess's ... has to run out of rabbits one day.
Quote of the year.
Quote of the year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ May 4 2009, 04:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They are hardly out of it yet. I would never write Ducati off they are just too committed. Burgess's ... has to run out of rabbits one day.
I am not giving up on stoner/ducati, provided that the tyres on which they were fast pre-season are actually available on race weekends. Even then provided the motegi result was a set-up aberration I think he will be competitive; as someone said in the pre-jerez testing thread jerez has been a track unsuited to stoner's riding style over his career, not just with ducati.
However if stoner is struggling to match rossi for raw pace this year let alone racecraft then I don't see much prospect of ducati developing the bike in different directions for other riders.
There is long term statistical proof of the capaciousness of jb's ... as far as rabbits are concerned.
I am not giving up on stoner/ducati, provided that the tyres on which they were fast pre-season are actually available on race weekends. Even then provided the motegi result was a set-up aberration I think he will be competitive; as someone said in the pre-jerez testing thread jerez has been a track unsuited to stoner's riding style over his career, not just with ducati.
However if stoner is struggling to match rossi for raw pace this year let alone racecraft then I don't see much prospect of ducati developing the bike in different directions for other riders.
There is long term statistical proof of the capaciousness of jb's ... as far as rabbits are concerned.
Has anyone ever thought that maybe the technicians on the other side of the garage are absolutely crap? Because it does seem that they are unable to setup the bike for how the rider wants it, yet Stoners side can setup the bike to his liking.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nomad @ May 4 2009, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Has anyone ever thought that maybe the technicians on the other side of the garage are absolutely crap? Because it does seem that they are unable to setup the bike for how the rider wants it, yet Stoners side can setup the bike to his liking.
Me think Duke is a difficult bike to ride. That's why they built L-Twin with bigger CC for their superbikes. Even Bayliss could not tame the GP horses. Only Stoner and Capirossi can ride the Duke. Unfortunately for Checa & Gibber , it was only a year contract.
If Hayden has no chance winning a race riding a Honda last year, Me think he might elsewhere going to WSBK next year than taking a seat in a privateer team. He was already a 2006 Moto GP champion but that was a different story.
Me think Duke is a difficult bike to ride. That's why they built L-Twin with bigger CC for their superbikes. Even Bayliss could not tame the GP horses. Only Stoner and Capirossi can ride the Duke. Unfortunately for Checa & Gibber , it was only a year contract.
If Hayden has no chance winning a race riding a Honda last year, Me think he might elsewhere going to WSBK next year than taking a seat in a privateer team. He was already a 2006 Moto GP champion but that was a different story.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (V5Stroker @ May 4 2009, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Me think Duke is a difficult bike to ride. That's why they built L-Twin with bigger CC for their superbikes. Even Bayliss could not tame the GP horses. Only Stoner and Capirossi can ride the Duke. Unfortunately for Checa & Gibber , it was only a year contract.
If Hayden has no chance winning a race riding a Honda last year, Me think he might elsewhere going to WSBK next year than taking a seat in a privateer team. He was already a 2006 Moto GP champion but that was a different story.
Bayliss got a win so be fair
If Hayden has no chance winning a race riding a Honda last year, Me think he might elsewhere going to WSBK next year than taking a seat in a privateer team. He was already a 2006 Moto GP champion but that was a different story.
Bayliss got a win so be fair
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nomad @ May 4 2009, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Has anyone ever thought that maybe the technicians on the other side of the garage are absolutely crap?
Yeah sure ..... for about two seconds ..... back in 07. But then riders and Ducati team members started saying " its not the bike .... its Stoner" ........ get with the picture
Yeah sure ..... for about two seconds ..... back in 07. But then riders and Ducati team members started saying " its not the bike .... its Stoner" ........ get with the picture
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ May 4 2009, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah sure ..... for about two seconds ..... back in 07. But then riders and Ducati team members started saying " its not the bike .... its Stoner" ........ get with the picture
Brilliant!
Seeing 3 top riders struggle so much on the Ducati just goes to show how impressive Casey's title was and how deserving of it he was of the title in 2007.
Seeing 3 top riders struggle so much on the Ducati just goes to show how impressive Casey's title was and how deserving of it he was of the title in 2007.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nomad @ May 4 2009, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Has anyone ever thought that maybe the technicians on the other side of the garage are absolutely crap? Because it does seem that they are unable to setup the bike for how the rider wants it, yet Stoners side can setup the bike to his liking.
And why should Ducati keep them, if they were crap? Do you think Ducati cannot find enough good race engineers?
And why should Ducati keep them, if they were crap? Do you think Ducati cannot find enough good race engineers?
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ May 4 2009, 04:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They are hardly out of it yet. I would never write Ducati off they are just too committed. Burgess's ... has to run out of rabbits one day.
..Then he can go steal a bunny from Randy to commiserate.
Why does everyone purely equate solving problems on that bike to Jeremy Burgess? Last season, it took the crew 4 races before that M1 was happily married to the 'stones. Valentino personally identified Alex Briggs thanking him in the post race conference after his victory in Shanghai. The magic cast in that garage, (aside from the Vale's spell on the press, or his hoodoo on other riders), is the synergy between rider and crew...and as crew chief it is Burgess's job to act as a conduct for this electricity.
As I said in the Jerez thread, Valentino was driving the debrief...which wasn't the usual twenty minutes in the back of the garage before the token evening PR, meet and greet, etc etc. This was doors shut, an hour and a half conference of war. It's generally accepted that Vale is the mainframe of his crew. JB has always said that he's never worked with a rider like it. He comes back in and gushes data, he has an exceptional ability to generate feedback and to communicate this data to his technicians. They plug him in after every session and he streams information. This weekend, the crew, obviously under the direction of JB, responded as they have done many times.
This isn't about pulling rabbits from hats...I concede there's undoubtably smoke and mirrors involved because Rossi seldom really believes it's impossible to win a race..at that point after all, he was still 4th on the grid. It may seem that they conjored this result form nothing, but like I said in the Jerez thread, this race was won in morning warm up by a team effort - that means rider and crew
It is exactly the same in Casey's garage - there is an extraordinary cohesion and telepathy between rider and crew - again this is channeled through the crew chief Gabarrini, who orchestrates the players, and the harmony within that team must be music to his ears.
I started the speculation on this forum concerning, in contrast, the apparent discord on Nicky's side of the garage. I really believe that communication is the problem - the team are out of tune with each other and rider and crew need to start singing from the same hymnsheet.
..Then he can go steal a bunny from Randy to commiserate.
Why does everyone purely equate solving problems on that bike to Jeremy Burgess? Last season, it took the crew 4 races before that M1 was happily married to the 'stones. Valentino personally identified Alex Briggs thanking him in the post race conference after his victory in Shanghai. The magic cast in that garage, (aside from the Vale's spell on the press, or his hoodoo on other riders), is the synergy between rider and crew...and as crew chief it is Burgess's job to act as a conduct for this electricity.
As I said in the Jerez thread, Valentino was driving the debrief...which wasn't the usual twenty minutes in the back of the garage before the token evening PR, meet and greet, etc etc. This was doors shut, an hour and a half conference of war. It's generally accepted that Vale is the mainframe of his crew. JB has always said that he's never worked with a rider like it. He comes back in and gushes data, he has an exceptional ability to generate feedback and to communicate this data to his technicians. They plug him in after every session and he streams information. This weekend, the crew, obviously under the direction of JB, responded as they have done many times.
This isn't about pulling rabbits from hats...I concede there's undoubtably smoke and mirrors involved because Rossi seldom really believes it's impossible to win a race..at that point after all, he was still 4th on the grid. It may seem that they conjored this result form nothing, but like I said in the Jerez thread, this race was won in morning warm up by a team effort - that means rider and crew
It is exactly the same in Casey's garage - there is an extraordinary cohesion and telepathy between rider and crew - again this is channeled through the crew chief Gabarrini, who orchestrates the players, and the harmony within that team must be music to his ears.
I started the speculation on this forum concerning, in contrast, the apparent discord on Nicky's side of the garage. I really believe that communication is the problem - the team are out of tune with each other and rider and crew need to start singing from the same hymnsheet.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 4 2009, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>..Then he can go steal a bunny from Randy to commiserate.
Why does everyone purely equate solving problems on that bike to Jeremy Burgess? Last season, it took the crew 4 races before that M1 was happily married to the 'stones. Valentino personally identified Alex Briggs thanking him in the post race conference after his victory in Shanghai. The magic cast in that garage, (aside from the Vale's spell on the press, or his hoodoo on other riders), is the synergy between rider and crew...and as crew chief it is Burgess's job to act as a conduct for this electricity.
As I said in the Jerez thread, Valentino was driving the debrief...which wasn't the usual twenty minutes in the back of the garage before the token evening PR, meet and greet, etc etc. This was doors shut, an hour and a half conference of war. It's generally accepted that Vale is the mainframe of his crew. JB has always said that he's never worked with a rider like it. He comes back in and gushes data, he has an exceptional ability to generate feedback and to communicate this data to his technicians. They plug him in after every session and he streams information. This weekend, the crew, obviously under the direction of JB, responded as they have done many times.
This isn't about pulling rabbits from hats...I concede there's undoubtably smoke and mirrors involved because Rossi seldom really believes it's impossible to win a race..at that point after all, he was still 4th on the grid. It may seem that they conjored this result form nothing, but like I said in the Jerez thread, this race was won in morning warm up by a team effort - that means rider and crew
It is exactly the same in Casey's garage - there is an extraordinary cohesion and telepathy between rider and crew - again this is channeled through the crew chief Gabarrini, who orchestrates the players, and the harmony within that team must be music to his ears.
I started the speculation on this forum concerning, in contrast, the apparent discord on Nicky's side of the garage. I really believe that communication is the problem - the team are out of tune with each other and rider and crew need to start singing from the same hymnsheet.
Ok ...hypothetical time:
Who do you think would win,
Rossi with Stoners bike and crew etc.
or
Stoner and Rossi's bike and crew ( remembering JB wanted Stoner a few years back
)
Why does everyone purely equate solving problems on that bike to Jeremy Burgess? Last season, it took the crew 4 races before that M1 was happily married to the 'stones. Valentino personally identified Alex Briggs thanking him in the post race conference after his victory in Shanghai. The magic cast in that garage, (aside from the Vale's spell on the press, or his hoodoo on other riders), is the synergy between rider and crew...and as crew chief it is Burgess's job to act as a conduct for this electricity.
As I said in the Jerez thread, Valentino was driving the debrief...which wasn't the usual twenty minutes in the back of the garage before the token evening PR, meet and greet, etc etc. This was doors shut, an hour and a half conference of war. It's generally accepted that Vale is the mainframe of his crew. JB has always said that he's never worked with a rider like it. He comes back in and gushes data, he has an exceptional ability to generate feedback and to communicate this data to his technicians. They plug him in after every session and he streams information. This weekend, the crew, obviously under the direction of JB, responded as they have done many times.
This isn't about pulling rabbits from hats...I concede there's undoubtably smoke and mirrors involved because Rossi seldom really believes it's impossible to win a race..at that point after all, he was still 4th on the grid. It may seem that they conjored this result form nothing, but like I said in the Jerez thread, this race was won in morning warm up by a team effort - that means rider and crew
It is exactly the same in Casey's garage - there is an extraordinary cohesion and telepathy between rider and crew - again this is channeled through the crew chief Gabarrini, who orchestrates the players, and the harmony within that team must be music to his ears.
I started the speculation on this forum concerning, in contrast, the apparent discord on Nicky's side of the garage. I really believe that communication is the problem - the team are out of tune with each other and rider and crew need to start singing from the same hymnsheet.
Ok ...hypothetical time:
Who do you think would win,
Rossi with Stoners bike and crew etc.
or
Stoner and Rossi's bike and crew ( remembering JB wanted Stoner a few years back
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ May 4 2009, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok ...hypothetical time:
Who do you think would win,
Rossi with Stoners bike and crew etc.
or
Stoner and Rossi's bike and crew ( remembering JB wanted Stoner a few years back
)
Interesting point...I think there would still be very little in it, and I don't think in each scenario it would be to the detriment of either rider or crew concerned. I would love to see Vale go out with a title on the Italian marque though, although he has expressed a wish to remain at Yamaha. He want's to be remembered as a Yam rider, synonymous with the brand like Lawson or King Kenny.
Who do you think would win,
Rossi with Stoners bike and crew etc.
or
Stoner and Rossi's bike and crew ( remembering JB wanted Stoner a few years back
Interesting point...I think there would still be very little in it, and I don't think in each scenario it would be to the detriment of either rider or crew concerned. I would love to see Vale go out with a title on the Italian marque though, although he has expressed a wish to remain at Yamaha. He want's to be remembered as a Yam rider, synonymous with the brand like Lawson or King Kenny.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 4 2009, 10:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interesting point...I think there would still be very little in it, and I don't think in each scenario it would be to the detriment of either rider or crew concerned. I would love to see Vale go out with a title on the Italian marque though, although he has expressed a wish to remain at Yamaha. He want's to be remembered as a Yam rider, synonymous with the brand like Lawson or King Kenny.
Some interesting discussion has taken place on this thread, fairly exclusively tangential to the title of the thread and probably dignifying the author of the thread more than is deserved, a point jumkie has made earlier. Perhaps we should discuss these matters on another thread.
I agree rossi is pivotal to the set-up magic as you said in your earlier post; I believe his ability to adapt his riding to the circumstances and ride around problems is also a considerable factor. Regarding jb, rossi wanted jb to go with him to yamaha, but as I recall jb was going to retire if he didn't continue with valentino.
Some interesting discussion has taken place on this thread, fairly exclusively tangential to the title of the thread and probably dignifying the author of the thread more than is deserved, a point jumkie has made earlier. Perhaps we should discuss these matters on another thread.
I agree rossi is pivotal to the set-up magic as you said in your earlier post; I believe his ability to adapt his riding to the circumstances and ride around problems is also a considerable factor. Regarding jb, rossi wanted jb to go with him to yamaha, but as I recall jb was going to retire if he didn't continue with valentino.
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I think the question should be, should Nicky Hayden sack Ducati?
Ducati must find this so embarrassing, they just can't get the other bike to work. It doesn't make me want to buy one!
Ducati must find this so embarrassing, they just can't get the other bike to work. It doesn't make me want to buy one!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bonnielass @ May 4 2009, 09:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think the question should be, should Nicky Hayden sack Ducati?
Ducati must find this so embarrassing, they just can't get the other bike to work. It doesn't make me want to buy one!
That would be the logical thought wouldn't it.
But I bet every Duc. owner is not thinking they are a Kalio, Gibbers, Barros, Melandri, Capirossi, Hayden type Duc. rider ...... I bet they all feel they are Stoner type Duc. owners
kinda fits with the "mystique" of the marque too
.... doesn't it?
who knows ...... we might see them actually come out with a marketing strategy that sells them as "only for those who can handle it"
Ducati must find this so embarrassing, they just can't get the other bike to work. It doesn't make me want to buy one!
That would be the logical thought wouldn't it.
But I bet every Duc. owner is not thinking they are a Kalio, Gibbers, Barros, Melandri, Capirossi, Hayden type Duc. rider ...... I bet they all feel they are Stoner type Duc. owners
kinda fits with the "mystique" of the marque too
who knows ...... we might see them actually come out with a marketing strategy that sells them as "only for those who can handle it"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ May 4 2009, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok ...hypothetical time:
Who do you think would win,
Rossi with Stoners bike and crew etc.
or
Stoner and Rossi's bike and crew ( remembering JB wanted Stoner a few years back
)
Thats one of the best questions I`ve ever read,can`t answer it though,but good insight nonetheless.
Who do you think would win,
Rossi with Stoners bike and crew etc.
or
Stoner and Rossi's bike and crew ( remembering JB wanted Stoner a few years back
Thats one of the best questions I`ve ever read,can`t answer it though,but good insight nonetheless.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ May 4 2009, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>[Ducati] are going to run out of riders for their other bikes fairly soon if current trends continue...
There is a never ending flow of prime young riders that would love to try their hand at the Duc and I think riders like Kallio are the way they should go. Established pilots haven't fared well and maybe the beast needs a someone in the saddle unfettered with established norms as evidenced by Stoner and Kallio...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ May 4 2009, 06:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>People always jump to conclusions way to fast. This thread is a perfect example. My question would be as follows: If Nicky had ample time to work on the bike FREE from his injuries would he be in a better position? I have to say yes. Due to the fact that no one does more laps and pushes himself as he does. I believe that if he had his chance to really get down to business he would be ok or at least in a better place. Bad luck is on his side right now. I would expect someone to talk about Dani and his injuries but he knows that bike way better than Hayden knows or understands his right now. So I think after you see a few races go by without him getting wrecked into or trying to recover from painful injuries we can see really where they guy stands on the DUC. WHo knows but I think the Kid is a badass and just needs some room to prove his point a bit.
Nicky has been the victim of a series of unfortunate events since first twisting the Duc's throttle, but he's never gonna be the guy on that bike. I believe he deserves to be in MGP but it is Hayden who should sack Ducati and grab a Yamaha, Suzuki or Hayate ride.
There is a never ending flow of prime young riders that would love to try their hand at the Duc and I think riders like Kallio are the way they should go. Established pilots haven't fared well and maybe the beast needs a someone in the saddle unfettered with established norms as evidenced by Stoner and Kallio...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ May 4 2009, 06:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>People always jump to conclusions way to fast. This thread is a perfect example. My question would be as follows: If Nicky had ample time to work on the bike FREE from his injuries would he be in a better position? I have to say yes. Due to the fact that no one does more laps and pushes himself as he does. I believe that if he had his chance to really get down to business he would be ok or at least in a better place. Bad luck is on his side right now. I would expect someone to talk about Dani and his injuries but he knows that bike way better than Hayden knows or understands his right now. So I think after you see a few races go by without him getting wrecked into or trying to recover from painful injuries we can see really where they guy stands on the DUC. WHo knows but I think the Kid is a badass and just needs some room to prove his point a bit.
Nicky has been the victim of a series of unfortunate events since first twisting the Duc's throttle, but he's never gonna be the guy on that bike. I believe he deserves to be in MGP but it is Hayden who should sack Ducati and grab a Yamaha, Suzuki or Hayate ride.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ May 4 2009, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That would be the logical thought wouldn't it.
But I bet every Duc. owner is not thinking they are a Kalio, Gibbers, Barros, Melandri, Capirossi, Hayden type Duc. rider ...... I bet they all feel they are Stoner type Duc. owners
kinda fits with the "mystique" of the marque too
.... doesn't it?
who knows ...... we might see them actually come out with a marketing strategy that sells them as "only for those who can handle it"
You really do have an over inflated ego dont you . I bet you see yourself as the one who could handle it
The problem with ducati is
in 07 they showed there hand. There bike was not just a little faster it was monumentally faster forcing the big boys to invest heavily. Ducati were not rich enough to maintain the advantage they had, well not for all there bikes. Even barros implied this when he said he had near no factory support. He didnt even have a suspension tech. But you know all of this, we have talked about it enough time. You fanboys have a selective memory.
But I bet every Duc. owner is not thinking they are a Kalio, Gibbers, Barros, Melandri, Capirossi, Hayden type Duc. rider ...... I bet they all feel they are Stoner type Duc. owners
kinda fits with the "mystique" of the marque too
who knows ...... we might see them actually come out with a marketing strategy that sells them as "only for those who can handle it"
You really do have an over inflated ego dont you . I bet you see yourself as the one who could handle it
The problem with ducati is
in 07 they showed there hand. There bike was not just a little faster it was monumentally faster forcing the big boys to invest heavily. Ducati were not rich enough to maintain the advantage they had, well not for all there bikes. Even barros implied this when he said he had near no factory support. He didnt even have a suspension tech. But you know all of this, we have talked about it enough time. You fanboys have a selective memory.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 5 2009, 01:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You really do have an over inflated ego dont you . I bet you see yourself as the one who could handle it
The problem with ducati is
in 07 they showed there hand. There bike was not just a little faster it was monumentally faster forcing the big boys to invest heavily. Ducati were not rich enough to maintain the advantage they had, well not for all there bikes. Even barros implied this when he said he had near no factory support. He didnt even have a suspension tech. But you know all of this, we have talked about it enough time. You fanboys have a selective memory.
Heads still in the sand then Rog.
So far in the sand it seems you are lookin clear through the earth and up the chinese womens skirts no doubt
You are a ....... Rog. .... in 07 one Duc. rider did ok , in 08 same, in 09 same ...... how many times does the same thing have to happen for you to get it
The problem with ducati is
in 07 they showed there hand. There bike was not just a little faster it was monumentally faster forcing the big boys to invest heavily. Ducati were not rich enough to maintain the advantage they had, well not for all there bikes. Even barros implied this when he said he had near no factory support. He didnt even have a suspension tech. But you know all of this, we have talked about it enough time. You fanboys have a selective memory.
Heads still in the sand then Rog.
You are a ....... Rog. .... in 07 one Duc. rider did ok , in 08 same, in 09 same ...... how many times does the same thing have to happen for you to get it
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