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Should Casey be punished

33 Coupe said:
All this crap about re-entering the track is pure speculation. Does anyone have proof he had actually gone behind the fence & then jumped back over. As the crash was on the outside of turn 1 & the photo if him clapping is on the inside of the track well after the exit of turn 1, more than likely after trying to restart the bike & not being able to for a period of time, then pushing the bike to safety on the inside of the track, Rossi had already completed his lap so Casey was applauding Rossi on such a quick lap just after his accident. As a lap is about 1.40 I don't think he had time to even leave the track before Rossi came back around making the arguement about re-entering the track mute.
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You can't be serious??
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levigarrett said:
You can't be serious??
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I'm pretty sure Coupes was being sarcastic buddy.
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Though he does make a good point about not having enough time to leave and come back. I don't know the answer, but at least he's making some argument, despite he's full on engulfed in the 'distraction'.



Anyway, all this about him being on track as an appeal to punishment and the question of marshals are a brilliant use of the best fallacy of all: Distraction!



Take your pic:



Appeal to Authority: Referencing an 'expert'.

Appeal to Emotion: If it feels good, it must be true.

Appeal to Ridicule: Mocking the other person's claim.

Attack the Person: Distracting them from their argument.

Complex Question: two questions, one answer allowed.

Conspiracy Theory: Reframe refutation as further proof.

False Compromise: Extreme views are wrong. The middle way is right.

False Effect: A is assumed to cause B. B is proven wrong, so A is wrong.

False Dilemma: Choice is A or B. Rejecting A is selecting B.

Insignificance: Making a minor cause seem major.

Many Questions: overloading them with lots of questions.

Poisoning the Well: Discrediting the person before they speak.

Red Herring: Distracting with an irrelevancy.

Repetition: Repeating something makes it more true.

Strawman: Attack a weak argument used by the other person.

Style over Substance: An attractive presentation makes it more right.
 
Not even falling for the "distraction" as you have pointed out, merely offering another point of view for those who have. Clearly this is to move the heat off Rossi & quite obviously it has been sucessful by the number of posts.
 
Jumkie said:
I'm pretty sure Coupes was being sarcastic buddy.
<
Though he does make a good point about not having enough time to leave and come back. I don't know the answer, but at least he's making some argument, despite he's full on engulfed in the 'distraction'.



Anyway, all this about him being on track as an appeal to punishment and the question of marshals are a brilliant use of the best fallacy of all: Distraction!



Take your pic:



Appeal to Authority: Referencing an 'expert'.

Appeal to Emotion: If it feels good, it must be true.

Appeal to Ridicule: Mocking the other person's claim.

Attack the Person: Distracting them from their argument.

Complex Question: two questions, one answer allowed.

Conspiracy Theory: Reframe refutation as further proof.

False Compromise: Extreme views are wrong. The middle way is right.

False Effect: A is assumed to cause B. B is proven wrong, so A is wrong.

False Dilemma: Choice is A or B. Rejecting A is selecting B.

Insignificance: Making a minor cause seem major.

Many Questions: overloading them with lots of questions.

Poisoning the Well: Discrediting the person before they speak.

Red Herring: Distracting with an irrelevancy.

Repetition: Repeating something makes it more true.

Strawman: Attack a weak argument used by the other person.

Style over Substance: An attractive presentation makes it more right.
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christ jumkie, if only you could use your mind for good, and not evil
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digger said:
christ jumkie, if only you could use your mind for good, and not evil
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Hahaha. I know man. Its a sickness. Been on vacation, hav a million things i could be should be doing, and what do i do? Spend my time on this ..... I dont know why man. All i can say is, dont get an iphone, u'll b hopeless lost. I need help!
 
michaelm said:
My position is also clear, I am a passionate stoner fan who tries to be fair about rossi. On this occasion I had a visceral reaction to the rider I support being torpedoed which is how I saw it live, as did the non-australian commentators if you were watching one hd, possibly to the great detriment of his championship in which he was looking to have quite a chance to vindicate himself and prove the criticisms of those of your ilk wrong. Childishly, I was quite looking forward to some having to eat their words, not that I had any intention of saying too much if he did succeed. I was also being sarcastic in saying as long as valentino doesn't keep taking him out as you well know.



The bottom line here is that you seem to be upset about stoner's dig than anything else; as roger says who cares what they say, it has always been part of the rich tapestry of the sport and something valentino has done as much if not more than anyone, usually with an uncommon degree of wit.



This whole rossi stoner is getting out of hand, and has the potential to cause total melt-down of the motogp blogosphere; I think poor decent david emmett fears for the future of his site. Unlike you I can see that both sides are to blame, including me on here in the last few days, and perhaps I should stop posting.
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I've never said both sides aren't at fault, they are. In fact I have recently pointed out how much this has polerized both sides.



I've never objected to caseys comments in the garage, only that I thought they were funny and ultimately detrimental to his PR. However jumping out on track deliberately is a whole different issue.
 
michaelm said:
My position is also clear, I am a passionate stoner fan who tries to be fair about rossi. On this occasion I had a visceral reaction to the rider I support being torpedoed which is how I saw it live, as did the non-australian commentators if you were watching one hd, possibly to the great detriment of his championship in which he was looking to have quite a chance to vindicate himself and prove the criticisms of those of your ilk wrong. Childishly, I was quite looking forward to some having to eat their words, not that I had any intention of saying too much if he did succeed. I was also being sarcastic in saying as long as valentino doesn't keep taking him out as you well know.



The bottom line here is that you seem to be upset about stoner's dig than anything else; as roger says who cares what they say, it has always been part of the rich tapestry of the sport and something valentino has done as much if not more than anyone, usually with an uncommon degree of wit.



This whole rossi stoner is getting out of hand, and has the potential to cause total melt-down of the motogp blogosphere; I think poor decent david emmett fears for the future of his site. Unlike you I can see that both sides are to blame, including me on here in the last few days, and perhaps I should stop posting.
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db
 
Keshav said:
See... that's what some of us are talking about. You all seem to believe you can actually change results -

when in reality all you guys really skew is your perception of the results.
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I wasn't talking about one side, for both can and do.
 
Talpa said:
I've never said both sides aren't at fault, they are. In fact I have recently pointed out how much this has polerized both sides.



I've never objected to caseys comments in the garage, only that I thought they were funny and ultimately detrimental to his PR. However jumping out on track deliberately is a whole different issue.
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I actually thought if anything was offensive it was the dig about the shoulder, the other comment was not all that witty but showed he was not going to take being punted lying down, which imo is fair enough.



If he broke any rules with the trackside waving then as even most stoner fans say fine him, but to make it into a significant safety issue is over-egging the omelette/souffle; as goatboy, not a noted stoner fan said he has seen much worse.
 
michaelm said:
I have large issues with him taking out casey stoner in desperate moves.
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Well, it was no different than the 8 odd moves VR pulled earlier in the race-which stuck, and Sic's move on Stoner seemed far harsher. Not desperate at all- that's racing, time to move on......
 
Talpa said:
Well, it was no different than the 8 odd moves VR pulled earlier in the race-which stuck, and Sic's move on Stoner seemed far harsher. Not desperate at all- that's racing, time to move on......
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I don't have quite as large an issue with desperate moves that don't take stoner out, this year anyway
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, particularly since such moves are pretty well by definition less desperate.



It may surprise you, but I think valentino might be a little bit better than marco simoncelli. I also do have large issues with simoncelli in general, mainly because of his recklessness rather than his agressiveness.
 
michaelm said:
as goatboy, not a noted stoner fan said he has seen much worse.
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[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JogHiSR5P4[/media]



This one is more funny:



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlpmj9XAn1k&feature=related[/media]



I couldn't find footage of Bobby Rahal giving Paul Tracy the finger from the racing line after being taken out by him.
 
chopperman said:
Just because there has been worse over the years does not make it any more excusable !
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Make what excusable Reg,? Rossi's riding misdemeanor?



You are just being a manipulative teeny ..... Reg,



Rossi did wrong Reg., he has apologised.
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( as much as it hurts you it was the first right thing to do at the very least )



As anyone would , Stoner just needs time to forget about it.



Just imagine if Rossi dropped his bike in front of your couch during the race ...
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Tears tears tears
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