THE ROSSI RULE

#22 said:

I agree about Marquez, he has been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion.

If you look at his behaviour in the press conferences and the media, he has been nothing but professional and even for the sake of the sport, has offered to shake Rossi's hand and put it behind them.

Click to expand...

He sure has at that, and whilst I feel that he played or has no guilt in relation to the accusation put upon him, I also do not believe that he is not playing a very careful game of media manipulation of his own.

MM I suspect has been trying to redeem himself with his posturings knowing full well what would be the response (afterall and as we often hear, MM is more like Rossi than any before) and as such knew that he would get rebuffed but also knew that by offering he looks the bigger of the two. IMO only but were it up to MM I suspect that he would rather spit in his own hand than shake that of Rossi given what had occurred

#22 said:

What has Rossi done? Still, even as recently as the Yamaha launch, is ..... about Marquez, Lorenzo and how he in his oen mind got screwed over last year...and Dorna do nothing about it.

Click to expand...

And this to me is the bigger story ............... the supposed bastion of frivolity and good sportsmanship is yet to even start to 'pull back' the 'woe is me' attitude.

Yes he may feel wronged but at the same time that was some month ago and all he is doing is reinforcing the opinions of those that have long labelled him a spoilt brat prone to dummy spits, just that this one is oh so public (and maddeningly, seemingly accepted by oh so many)

Genuine question for Krop, if DORNA is taking to possibly gagging riders is it a worry for Jounros that those who do not report what DORNA wants could have difficulty getting interviews or information etc?

p4p1 said:

Genuine question for Krop, if DORNA is taking to possibly gagging riders is it a worry for Jounros that those who do not report what DORNA wants could have difficulty getting interviews or information etc?

Click to expand...

Firstly, riders are not quite being gagged. There are already restrictions in place on what riders can say through the commercial contracts Dorna signs with the teams. That is where such restrictions belong, as I tried to make clear.

The danger is that riders don't speak out for fear of punishment via the sporting regulations. That is a very bad thing. Fortunately, riders don't respond well to authority figures, as the police reports like to put it, and are unlikely to restrict themselves too much.

Another consideration: factory riders are already under restrictions on what they can say. Say anything the factory doesn't like, and you are looking at five and six figure fines.

Are journalists afraid we will lose interviews and information? The chickenshit ones are, yes. Fortunately, there are a number who are not afraid of speaking out, or of having their passes pulled (which used to happen a long time ago), and so will continue to write what they want.

Lastly, my problem is not so much with Marquez, but, as I tried to make clear, with his entourage (you all know who I mean). The problem is Alzamora, and Honda's failure to tell him to piss off.

Kropotkin said:

Firstly, riders are not quite being gagged. There are already restrictions in place on what riders can say through the commercial contracts Dorna signs with the teams. That is where such restrictions belong, as I tried to make clear.

The danger is that riders don't speak out for fear of punishment via the sporting regulations. That is a very bad thing. Fortunately, riders don't respond well to authority figures, as the police reports like to put it, and are unlikely to restrict themselves too much.

Another consideration: factory riders are already under restrictions on what they can say. Say anything the factory doesn't like, and you are looking at five and six figure fines.

Are journalists afraid we will lose interviews and information? The chickenshit ones are, yes. Fortunately, there are a number who are not afraid of speaking out, or of having their passes pulled (which used to happen a long time ago), and so will continue to write what they want.

Lastly, my problem is not so much with Marquez, but, as I tried to make clear, with his entourage (you all know who I mean). The problem is Alzamora, and Honda's failure to tell him to piss off.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Krop

The Marquez entourage makes sense especially from what I've read on this forum. I didn't now they had fines that high imposed on them I guess it's a huge motivator to not say anything that you shouldn't.

Kropotkin said:

Firstly, riders are not quite being gagged. There are already restrictions in place on what riders can say through the commercial contracts Dorna signs with the teams. That is where such restrictions belong, as I tried to make clear.

The danger is that riders don't speak out for fear of punishment via the sporting regulations. That is a very bad thing. Fortunately, riders don't respond well to authority figures, as the police reports like to put it, and are unlikely to restrict themselves too much.

Another consideration: factory riders are already under restrictions on what they can say. Say anything the factory doesn't like, and you are looking at five and six figure fines.

Are journalists afraid we will lose interviews and information? The chickenshit ones are, yes. Fortunately, there are a number who are not afraid of speaking out, or of having their passes pulled (which used to happen a long time ago), and so will continue to write what they want.

Lastly, my problem is not so much with Marquez, but, as I tried to make clear, with his entourage (you all know who I mean). The problem is Alzamora, and Honda's failure to tell him to piss off.

Click to expand...

As you implied in your article, in most situations involving humans stuff-ups are far more common/likely than conspiracies, and when I am not wearing metallic headware I am quite happy to attribute many of Dorna's more unworkable rule changes over the years to incompetence rather than malice; most have actually been well intentioned, like the PI 2013 experiment.

I do see irony in all this, in that the original penalty point system was probably substantially designed to rein in MM's practice excesses without offending him too much, although stopping the moto 3 tows etc was also quite desirable as you said, but ended up biting Valentino. I am not sure what the aim of the most recent regulation is, and even less how Dorna see it working in practice, but Lorenzo and MM have already demonstrated they could be instructed to shut up about late season 2015 under pre-existing strictures.

2013 experiment?

Dr No said:

2013 experiment?

Click to expand...

The response to the tyre debacle, the tyre change, the track exit and entry points for the tyre change etc etc was not a deliberate attempt to stuff up the race imo; I do think Carmelo had a pre-existing thought that having a tyre change during GP bike races a la F1 might be cool though.

michaelm said:

but Lorenzo and MM have already demonstrated they could be instructed to shut up about late season 2015 under pre-existing strictures.

Click to expand...

They have both shut up because they have understood you can't win the media war against Rossi. Better to shut up and beat him on track than get distracted by getting drawn into a futile public media brawl. This hasn't been as a result of instruction, but of bitter experience.

Kropotkin said:

Lastly, my problem is not so much with Marquez, but, as I tried to make clear, with his entourage (you all know who I mean). The problem is Alzamora, and Honda's failure to tell him to piss off.

Click to expand...

So Alberto Puig all over again?

Kropotkin said:

They have both shut up because they have understood you can't win the media war against Rossi. Better to shut up and beat him on track than get distracted by getting drawn into a futile public media brawl. This hasn't been as a result of instruction, but of bitter experience.

Click to expand...

Sure, that might well have been news for MM, but not I think for Jorge.

#22 said:

So Alberto Puig all over again?

Click to expand...

Only much worse. And his reign will not last as long. He has overplayed his hand a couple of times, and is starting to pay the price.

Alzamora is incredible at talent spotting and development, as was Puig. Organizations like HRC will happily put up with ........ when the star rider is winning everything, but they lose patience when they don't.

michaelm said:

The response to the tyre debacle, the tyre change, the track exit and entry points for the tyre change etc etc was not a deliberate attempt to stuff up the race imo; I do think Carmelo had a pre-existing thought that having a tyre change during GP bike races a la F1 might be cool though.

Click to expand...

I get the .... track entry points. We watched from the inside of the straight. It was a .... situation. Dangerous tyres with no alternatives but to shut the whole thing down. It doesn't reflect well on Bridgestone nor Dorna. But what was the alternative? But they were all briefed and MM's crew thought they knew better.
As for tyre change a la F1. No.

Dr No said:

I get the .... track entry points. We watched from the inside of the straight. It was a .... situation. Dangerous tyres with no alternatives but to shut the whole thing down. It doesn't reflect well on Bridgestone nor Dorna. But what was the alternative? But they were all briefed and MM's crew thought they knew better.
As for tyre change a la F1. No.

Click to expand...

I actually gave it as an example of Dorna trying to do the right thing.

I only watched on TV, and actually defended MM of whom I was not a fan against criticism of his brisk re-entry to the track given the chosen re-entry point seemed to be blind to approaching bikes coming over a rise. I do blame and have blamed on a current thread his core crew (I don't know whether Alzamora was involved) for him stopping too late, particularly since there seemed to be people in the Honda pits who understood what should happen, but it was all fairly hastily devised and some of his crew obviously hadn't understood the briefing, and it would imo have been a hell of a way for him to lose a championship even though I was going for Jorge. I also believe by that time Carmelo was giving instructions to Bridgestone concerning their tyres, when they already had perfectly durable one, and was canvassing following the current F1 trends such as tyres that wore out more like the F1 Pirellis, and tyre stops, the latter which I agree would have been ridiculous since GP bike races are basically sprint events.

Bridgestone obviously still should have done some pre-race testing on the newly surfaced track particularly if they thought Dorna had subverted their tyres.

michaelm said:

As you implied in your article, in most situations involving humans stuff-ups are far more common/likely than conspiracies, and when I am not wearing metallic headware I am quite happy to attribute many of Dorna's more unworkable rule changes over the years to incompetence rather than malice; most have actually been well intentioned, like the PI 2013 experiment.

I do see irony in all this, in that the original penalty point system was probably substantially designed to rein in MM's practice excesses without offending him too much, although stopping the moto 3 tows etc was also quite desirable as you said, but ended up biting Valentino. I am not sure what the aim of the most recent regulation is, and even less how Dorna see it working in practice, but Lorenzo and MM have already demonstrated they could be instructed to shut up about late season 2015 under pre-existing strictures.

Click to expand...

The irony indeed. ....... hilarious.
Oh the arch, melodramatic, self-contradictory, disingenuous bumbling...

Re the aim of the most recent changes...
Are you having a ....... laugh?
The aim is perfectly clear no?
Ask Jessie J...

Okay, Coconut man, Moon Head and Pea
You ready?

povol said:

Nice article by Krop on rules changes. Unlike Oxley, he relieves Lorenzo from the fray, but is still quite harsh on Marquez who still to this day has done nothing wrong but race Rossi hard but fair. In fact, Marquez has been the bigger man than anyone involved in the incident. What has he done to be called a petulant child. His criticism of Dorna is to the point and warranted, they have created a clusterfuck of epic proportions.
https://m.motomatters.com/opinion/2016/03/04/editor_s_opinion_more_knee_jerk_rule_cha.html

Click to expand...

The voice of reason: stunningly refreshing article.

It's a pretty well established principle that disciplinary action needs to be swift to be effective. Abolishing the rule based on a directive from VR's motor home is the beginning of the end.

My reading of the angle on Marquez is a mixture of the
DE: Yeh but, do you think his eye might pop out again?
EA: .... you arsehole; your a BAD journalist. BAD journalist...

And the riding like a .... comment.

michaelm said:

I do see irony in all this, in that the original penalty point system was probably substantially designed to rein in MM's practice excesses without offending him too much, although stopping the moto 3 tows etc was also quite desirable as you said, but ended up biting Valentino. I am not sure what the aim of the most recent regulation is, and even less how Dorna see it working in practice, but Lorenzo and MM have already demonstrated they could be instructed to shut up about late season 2015 under pre-existing strictures.

Click to expand...

This!