THE CASE FOR MARQUEZ

michaelm said:

Well as it happens, he had not refuted a single argument I had made. I would be tempted to think this was because he was unable to do so, even more so if the only reply he seemed able to make was a small technicality that he was not addressing me.

I take back my previous post btw, in the wider world where there are real consequences the "ganging up " has been very much the other way, both now and historically in regard to other riders, to one of whom Jumkie alluded. Whilst MM probably has rather more support of his own than those previous riders, it is exactly that history which prompts the vehemence of those debunking these non- arguments.

(Edited , still no good on an iPhone particularly in a restaurant and thought I was replying to moto whomever).

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moto vudu said:

Burden of proof is on me because Iannone said he believes Marc was slowing at PI and Mike Webb stated Marc was deliberately trying to affect the pace of Valentino at Sepang?



Interesting.

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Cool Blue said:

Ah, there you go, now it makes sense... When I red your original post I was thinking maybe it was red wine and John Coltrane. Enjoy your meal dude!

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michaelm said:

A glass of chianti was involved. I do have Blue train, Soultrane and Giant Steps but haven't played them for a while.



I went a little over the top, but to further reference 20th century culture poor old moto was looking well placed to head a revival of the absurdist tradition in western literature, given that the foundation stone of the position he was taking seemed to be the contention that MM had not made a genuine effort to win the PI motogp race which he recently won.

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Talpa said:

Sorry about that

I'm surprised you haven't accused Rossi fans of genocide or .......... yet,



and just in case you forgot,

you are a ....

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Talpa said:

The big lie works both ways.

My theory is Marc headbutted Rossi and closed the front because he and his handlebar hit Rossi and/or Rossi's bike,

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Gaz said:

So it is you who keeps downvoting me .............




Serious question for the US people amongst us ......... what is Pridmore's resume (I realise that he is a rider school instructor but the name does not ring a bell)

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Dr No said:

So Ducati had a defect in their radiator protection that caused a rider to DNF and could have sprayed the race line with water.
Where's their 25 manufacturing point penalty?

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michaelm said:

A glass of chianti was involved. I do have Blue train, Soultrane and Giant Steps but haven't played them for a while.

I went a little over the top, but to further reference 20th century culture poor old moto was looking well placed to head a revival of the absurdist tradition in western literature, given that the foundation stone of the position he was taking seemed to be the contention that MM had not made a genuine effort to win the PI motogp race which he recently won.

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xx CURVE xx said:

I, like the rest of you, watched the Malaysian Gran Prix last Sunday. Pedrosa won right??

It was truly a great performance for Dani and yet most people will never remember it. What went on with Rossi and Marquez will be etched into history and could be a game changer for how things are run from here on out. I have read so many comments on everything about what went on but let me give you a few perspectives.

For the past two seasons Marc Marquez has dominated Moto GP. He has been an absolute phenom and has proven to be a step ahead of his competition. Really, up until this year, there has been zero reason to not like Marquez. He always seems jovial, great in front of the camera and good to his fans. This year however, the competition has caught up, things aren’t going the way they have and with the increased pressure we have seen many mistakes.

I saw a different Marquez after Argentina. To this day the fact that he blames Rossi for his obvious screw up is baffling. When I saw his first interview after the race I thought he was joking. Remember, Rossi was catching him at almost 1 second per lap due to tire choices. There was zero chance Marquez was staying with Rossi after Rossi went past. Marquez played hardball and ran into the side of Vale and went down. Then his last gasp effort at Assen was just as strange. No idea what he expected Rossi to do. He again ran into the side of Rossi’s bike and again he lost. He initiated the contact both times and neither worked in his favor.

Rossi, on the other hand, has finished every race and more often than not, on the podium. Racking up points and being the story of the year, he has shown what it takes to win again. How a 36 year old, 9 Time World Champion can keep digging deep? Been fun to watch.

At the press conference in Malaysia, I was blindsided by Rossi’s comments after the Australian Gran Prix. We have all heard about the head games he has played in the past with Biaggi and Gibernau. Was this another way for him to get into Lorenzo’s head? It all didn’t make sense after what I considered to be the best Gran Prix I had witnessed. I didn’t want to believe it if I am being honest. I actually doubted The Doctor!!

Then Sunday came. I was just waking up in my hotel in Spain and put live coverage on the TV (love that). Pedrosa looked unstoppable for the first time in years but nobody was watching that. What was going to happen behind him?

Marquez Vs Rossi

Let me ask you a couple questions:

When have you seen Marquez put up zero fight for 1st or 2nd?When have you seen Marquez lose .4-.8 seconds a lap at the start of any Gran Prix in the past 3 years?Marquez claims he was waiting for tires to come in, 7 laps into the race? They worked ok for Pedrosa?Marquez claimed set up issues and more than that, claimed turn four was a huge problem for him. Why then would you keep stuffing it up the inside of Rossi in that corner having to over slow the bike and allowing the two ahead to keep getting away?Did anyone else notice that when Rossi rode back up the inside of Marquez before the contact he was sitting up?? That’s how much Marquez was slowing up mid corner, go back and check it for your self.



I did have one problem with Rossi

The only problem I had with what Rossi did was that he didn’t do it sooner!!!!!!I was screaming at the TV to park Marquez. Racing Rossi to me was no problem but what Marquez was doing was disrupting a Championship that he no longer had any involvement in. In my opinion he got what he deserved. Rossi wasn’t trying to take Marc out and for those that think Rossi kicked him,STOP IT!!!!!Marquez could have kept going straight like Rossi did, he didn’t, he fell over. Then went whimpering back to his pits crying about something that HE started, again!!! Then before the race ended started claiming his innocence; he was just racing and enjoying the battle, I don’t think so. He was as innocent as a guy who walks into the bank and gets handed someone else’s $100,000 on accident, then leaves with it. He didn’t do anything wrong, he just didn’t come out and tell the truth. Does anyone honestly think for a minute that when the Marquez crew was having dinner at some point this year, little Marc hasn’t told them he wants to get back at Rossi? I’d bet my life on it.

A totally unwritten rule of racing is to never get involved with the guys running for the Championship. I know this opens up a can of worms but it’s a fact, especially in the last two races. I’ve gone up to guys on the grid and said I will not get anywhere near you two. I’ve also had riders come up to me and say the same. Whether I have liked them or not, I was out of the Championship and I wasn’t going to take my grudges out and alter the outcome of the season. Do any of you think that Marquez, during those laps with Rossi on Sunday wasn’t smiling a bit under his helmet? Funny thing is, he crashed enough on his own this year to take himself out of the Championship.

And then there’s Lorenzo

I’m over Lorenzo. What a whining tart he has turned into, constantly moaning. The best video clip of the year is him pulling into the top 3 parc ferme after qualifying in Malaysia only to see that Rossi pipped him for 3rd. He had already shut his bike off and had to push it down to his garage where he pouted away to the back and then complained about brake issues. If Marquez did to Lorenzo what was being done to Rossi can you imagine the press conference after? He would have bitched about Marquez to no end, especially if Rossi was checking out because of it. Lorenzo’s comments after the race in Sepang were despicable. Running off the podium then crying, if Rossi wins the Championship it won’t be a real Championship? Really? He is constantly reminding us that he is a World Champion, stop your crying and act like one.

I personally think Rossi would have finished 4th on Sunday, all things considered. I have said for the past two columns that he doesn’t quite have the pace of the other two. I have been a fan of all three of these guys but as you can probably tell, there is only one that I am rooting for these days. I give Rossi about a 20% chance of winning the Championship now but I would love to see him do it. Coming from the last row will be very, very, difficult but taking the crown on home soil of Lorenzo and Marquez would be priceless.

This was a hard column for me to write and it dominated my brain for days while in Spain. I just feel like the wrong thing was done on Sunday and it started not because of Rossi or what he said in a stupid press conference, those are just words. It started because someone got his ego checked this year and doesn’t want to look at why. As brilliant as Marquez’s riding is, its time to grow up. Rossi will always be endeared and when he goes, Moto GP is in big trouble. Especially if Marquez and Lorenzo are what we all have to deal with.



Cheers and ride safe,


JP

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Jumkie said:

Tire management, have you ever heard of this concept? If so, read about it. Educate yourself.

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moto vudu said:

Race fixing, have you ever heard of this concept? If so, read about it. Educate yourself.

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Keshav said:

You clearly don't understand the concept you keep bleating about. "Race Fixing" is when a rider agrees to be paid to either lose the race or change the point spread. Nobody but nobody has ever implied that MM was taking money to ride as he did. It is you that needs to open a dictionary.

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In organized sports, match fixing occurs as a match is played to a completely or partially pre-determined result, violating the rules of the game and often the law. There is a variety of reasons for this, but the most common is in exchange for a payoff from gamblers. Players might also intentionally perform poorly to get an advantage in the future, such as a better draft pick, or an easier opponent in a playoff. A player might also play poorly to rig a handicap system.

Match fixing, when motivated by gambling, requires contacts (and normally money transfers) between gamblers, players, team officials, and/or referees. These contacts and transfer can sometimes be found, and lead to prosecution, by law or by the sports league(s). In contrast, losing for future advantages is internal to the team and very hard to prove. Often, substitutions made by the coach designed to deliberately increase the team's chances of losing (frequently by having one or more key players sit out, often using minimal or phantom injuries as a public excuse for doing this), rather than ordering the players actually on the field to intentionally underperform, were cited as the main factor in cases where this has been alleged.

Match-fixing generally refers to fixing the final result of the game. Another form of match-fixing, known as spot-fixing, involves fixing small events within a match which can be gambled upon, but which are unlikely to prove decisive in determining the final result of the game.

Other names for match fixing include game fixing, race fixing, sports fixing or hippodroming. Where the sporting competition in question is a race then the incident is referred to as race fixing. Games that are deliberately lost are sometimes called thrown games. When a team intentionally loses a game, or does not score as high as it can, to obtain a perceived future competitive advantage (for instance, earning a high draft pick) rather than gamblers being involved, the team is often said to have tanked the game instead of having thrown it. In pool hustling, tanking is known as dumping. In sports where a handicap system exists and is capable of being abused, tanking is known as sandbagging.

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Keshav said:

You clearly don't understand the concept you keep bleating about. "Race Fixing" is when a rider agrees to be paid to either lose the race or change the point spread. Nobody but nobody has ever implied that MM was taking money to ride as he did. It is you that needs to open a dictionary.

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Harryjones05 said:

Marquez has taken my money after better on Rossi for the title, cheers you little Spanish sore losing c*nt!!

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moto vudu said:

Attempting to fix a race for monetary gain is just one of the possible motivations an individual may have. The attempt to fix the final outcome of a race and/or championship can be defined as race fixing.

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