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Sachsenring predictions, practice, quali

You don't honestly believe that do you? Nearly 9 months after Rossi and JB joined Ducati, Ducati roll out the GP12 and you try to claim that Rossi and JB had nothing to do with it. You do know it is the GP12 don't you? You do know that Rossi has a 2 year contract don't you which includes 2011 and 2012?



So based on your opinion Rossi and JB are not developing anything for their contracted time at Ducati. They must be developing for 2013 which to me sounds a little bit bizarre. It also suggest that Ducati can't in 9 months start and finish a chassis from scratch. It also suggests that Ducati hire Rossi for 15 million euro's and JB and team for x million euro's just to ride and set up the bike on race weekends. If this is the case they are getting extremely ripped off and should be looking to break the contract due to failure to deliver and entering a contract under false pretences after all they claimed they could fix it within 80 sec and yet 8 months later a kid who bought his way in to MotoGP is riding the oldest version of GP10 still in existence and betting him in sessions.



Come on Jaz I have far more respect for your opinion then this dribble you are rolling out.



In my view there is no shame in Rossi's failure if it were acknowledged. Rossi and JB have no experience in CF Chassis. The Ducati is a flawed motorcycle. They should both apologies to Stoner and his crew for the comments that they made last and previous years and acknowledge his achievements and I, and no doubt many others would offer them a level of respect again.



Until then I am happy to watch them wallow in their arrogance at the back of the field because at the front there are a whole new group of hero's duking it out week in week out.





no im not arguing mate im going on what KROP said..... JB and rossi have nothing to do with the gp11.1/gp12 it was in development before they got there.
 
This seems more than a little bias, are you trying to convince people that Rossi doesn't deserve his status?

A little small minded and obsessed Stoner fan like it seems. As is what appears to be case across the board on this forum, either Stoner or Rossi seriously pro or seriously anti.

Why is it so? They are both incredible riders. I for one can't wait for another great race between the pair of them.

This makes your view fairly predictable and as in this case certainly juxtaposed to what I would expect from a Mental Anarchist.

From what I've read about the GP11.1, is that it still shares the somewhat ridiculous 'carbon fibre' half-frame of the previous version, which is the source of the problem of the understeer.

The most altered part of the GP11.1, the new rear end, seems to have fixed the rear pumping issues, which if as you say is a result of feedback from Rossi, Jeremy Burgess & Co then this is a big tick for them.



Again if my memory serves me correctly, the hero's at the front of the field are hardly newcomers, with Stoner and Pedrosa now in their 6th year of competition in Motogp.

Jorge Lorenzo and Andrea Dovitsoso now in their 4th year of competition in Motogp. The only relatively new hero's at the front are Ben Spies and Marco Simocelli both in their second season.

Verifying that a statement such as your last one, tells me that you have absolutely no clue of what it takes to compete in Motogp,

I doubt that anyone has time to wallow in arrogance such is the amount of work going in at every level from every team in this sport, being happy for a teams misfortunes is quite a sad way to be if you love this sport.

I think the general consensus at present is that Rossi has made a huge mistake signing with Ducati, but as the story is far from over, its hard to draw such absolute conclusions.



The German round is turning out to be quite interesting, with no real runaway pace setter, and both Yamaha and Honda strong. I believe Marco might actually get his first podium on Sunday.

Hayden seems to also have a good pace, potentially meaning that the other Ducati's may fair better in Qualifying and on race day.

With any luck we might see a real battle between Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Marco and Stoner, as their contrasting styles have great potential to provide a very entertaining race.

The crashes have been quite scary, Stoner's was monumental and he's done well to get back out there and post a competitive series of laps in both sessions.

As has Dani, who would no doubt be very scarred with injury, both physically and mentally.

The current ducati is a dud, with inherent design flaws. The even bigger problem is that it is not clear exactly where the design flaws lie; I am still not convinced that it is carbon fibre per se, as the mostly carbon fibre 2009 bike was no bad thing, if only suited to stoner's idiosyncratic riding style. Both The gp 11 and its successors were mainly designed before rossi's and jb's advent and I think part of the problem is that they designed according to what they thought would suit rossi rather than even how they would normally design a bike, and hence it is hardly rossi's fault that they apparently guessed wrong. I think there was some hubris in the statements of both jb and rossi prior to going to ducati as mental anarchist has pointed out, but their failure so far to fix things imo now says more about ducati and their bike than rossi/jb.



To get my stoner fanboy thing in, on hayden's form so far this week-end we are again seeing a statement of stoner's which was misinterpreted/criticised proven accurate; left to his own devices on the old(er) bike nicky seems to be doing quite well.
 
I left myself wide open for that.
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No laguna for me bro. But I plan to see you all in LA on like the 20th.

Dont say this and not show, third times the charm, right?
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Says the guy who's legs are sprouting out of the arm holes of his T-Shirt!
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BTW - Homey... we gonna see you at Laguna?







Could we please have a photographic re-enactment of you (Kesh) having Mudcrabs balls for breakfast.





I have fond memories of that (sorry Mdub)
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Could we please have a photographic re-enactment of you (Kesh) having Mudcrabs balls for breakfast.





I have fond memories of that (sorry Mdub)
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<
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This post is so disturbing I dont know where to begin. But I think we can. Kesh I'll bring the peanut butter.
 
The current ducati is a dud, with inherent design flaws. The even bigger problem is that it is not clear exactly clear where the design flaws lie; I am still not convinced that it is carbon fibre per se, as the mostly carbon fibre 2009 bike was no bad thing, if only suited to stoner's idiosyncratic riding style. Both The gp 11 and its successors were mainly designed before rossi's and jb's advent and I think part of the problem is that they designed according to what they thought would suit rossi rather than even how they would normally design a bike, and hence it is hardly rossi's fault that they apparently guessed wrong. I think there was some hubris in the statements of both jb and rossi prior to going to ducati as mental anrchist has pointed out, but their failure so far to fix things imo now says more about ducati and their bike than rossi/jb.



To get my stoner fanboy thing in, on hayden's form so far this week-end we are gain seeing a statement of stoner's which was misinterpreted/criticised proven accurate; left to his own devices on the old(er) bike nicky seems to be doing quite well.



Yes I agree, Hayden is going well so far this weekend. But since the introduction of the GP11.1 Rossi is still the best placed Ducati in the race, leaving Stoner's comment a little high and dry.

I'm not saying that the GP11.1 is the answer to Ducati's woes at all, in fact its probably only a very marginal step forward when they need a leap, watching Rossi in FP you can't help but feel he isn't even close to being on it,

like what we've seen in the past on the Yamaha, the problems are obviously much larger than anyone predicted especially this far into the season.

Hayden looks good but its not like he's anywhere near the top step in FP, and has been well off the pace in the races, meaning that pursuing the GP11 seems pointless too.

Even the only man to succeed with the 800 Desmo Casey, couldn't make it consistently competitive last season, without the increased effort from Honda as we've seen this season.



The current crop of Riders seem to be constantly pissing on each other in the media, for which I don't care too much for.

Casey needs to focus on beating Jorge and Dani, maybe even Marco and Ben yet, a task of great difficulty this weekend.



Taking the journos bait on Ducati's woes when Rossi and Hayden clearly aren't a threat at present should be well beyond Stoner by now, and it may well bite him later.

Stoner has proven his talent on the Honda, and even moreso now raised a lot of eyebrows about his time on the Ducati.

I expect this rot from the Italians and Spanish, but I believe that Stoner would perform much better (if possible! and a scary prospect for the competition) by not getting into these situations

some of which he has unfortunately exacerbated recently.
 
Even the only man to succeed with the 800 Desmo Casey, couldn't make it consistently competitive last season, without the increased effort from Honda as we've seen this season.





Talk to a few journo's and some people within the circus, this years honda is the same as last years one, with only a few new parts that where in development before stoner got there.



The Honda has been a good bike for a while its just needed a consistent rider that doesn't have tooth picks for bones. (look at Dani's form end of last year, he was healthy and showed the strength of the honda.
 
This seems more than a little bias, are you trying to convince people that Rossi doesn't deserve his status?

A little small minded and obsessed Stoner fan like it seems. As is what appears to be case across the board on this forum, either Stoner or Rossi seriously pro or seriously anti.

Why is it so? They are both incredible riders. I for one can't wait for another great race between the pair of them.

This makes your view fairly predictable and as in this case certainly juxtaposed to what I would expect from a Mental Anarchist.

From what I've read about the GP11.1, is that it still shares the somewhat ridiculous 'carbon fibre' half-frame of the previous version, which is the source of the problem of the understeer.

The most altered part of the GP11.1, the new rear end, seems to have fixed the rear pumping issues, which if as you say is a result of feedback from Rossi, Jeremy Burgess & Co then this is a big tick for them.



Again if my memory serves me correctly, the hero's at the front of the field are hardly newcomers, with Stoner and Pedrosa now in their 6th year of competition in Motogp.

Jorge Lorenzo and Andrea Dovitsoso now in their 4th year of competition in Motogp. The only relatively new hero's at the front are Ben Spies and Marco Simocelli both in their second season.

Verifying that a statement such as your last one, tells me that you have absolutely no clue of what it takes to compete in Motogp,

I doubt that anyone has time to wallow in arrogance such is the amount of work going in at every level from every team in this sport, being happy for a teams misfortunes is quite a sad way to be if you love this sport.

I think the general consensus at present is that Rossi has made a huge mistake signing with Ducati, but as the story is far from over, its hard to draw such absolute conclusions.



The German round is turning out to be quite interesting, with no real runaway pace setter, and both Yamaha and Honda strong. I believe Marco might actually get his first podium on Sunday.

Hayden seems to also have a good pace, potentially meaning that the other Ducati's may fair better in Qualifying and on race day.

With any luck we might see a real battle between Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Marco and Stoner, as their contrasting styles have great potential to provide a very entertaining race.

The crashes have been quite scary, Stoner's was monumental and he's done well to get back out there and post a competitive series of laps in both sessions.

As has Dani, who would no doubt be very scarred with injury, both physically and mentally.



Point out where I questioned Rossi's status in the post you quoted. The rest was similarly in context to my post so no comment.



no im not arguing mate im going on what KROP said..... JB and rossi have nothing to do with the gp11.1/gp12 it was in development before they got there.



I have not actually read that from Krop but given you suggest he said it and I am not saying he didn't I do not believe it for a second. Of course Ducati have a bike and a design philosophy that Rossi and JB have to work with. This was designed back in 2008/9. But I do not and will not believe that the bike Rossi is riding now was just sitting in the shed waiting for race 7 of the 2011 season to be dragged out. Rossi has ridden the bike in 5 test days. He has ridden the GP11 in 6 races and 4 test weekends. He has provided feedback and suggested ways to fix the bike. All of that info was applied to the Ducati bike and philosophy and the de-stroked GP12 is the result. The result so far is putting him slower than an untouched GP10.



Yes I agree, Hayden is going well so far this weekend. But since the introduction of the GP11.1 Rossi is still the best placed Ducati in the race, leaving Stoner's comment a little high and dry.

I'm not saying that the GP11.1 is the answer to Ducati's woes at all, in fact its probably only a very marginal step forward when they need a leap, watching Rossi in FP you can't help but feel he isn't even close to being on it,

like what we've seen in the past on the Yamaha, the problems are obviously much larger than anyone predicted especially this far into the season.

Hayden looks good but its not like he's anywhere near the top step in FP, and has been well off the pace in the races, meaning that pursuing the GP11 seems pointless too.

Even the only man to succeed with the 800 Desmo Casey, couldn't make it consistently competitive last season, without the increased effort from Honda as we've seen this season.



The current crop of Riders seem to be constantly pissing on each other in the media, for which I don't care too much for.

Casey needs to focus on beating Jorge and Dani, maybe even Marco and Ben yet, a task of great difficulty this weekend.



Taking the journos bait on Ducati's woes when Rossi and Hayden clearly aren't a threat at present should be well beyond Stoner by now, and it may well bite him later.

Stoner has proven his talent on the Honda, and even moreso now raised a lot of eyebrows about his time on the Ducati.

I expect this rot from the Italians and Spanish, but I believe that Stoner would perform much better (if possible! and a scary prospect for the competition) by not getting into these situations

some of which he has unfortunately exacerbated recently.



Hayden has had to follow and test for Rossi's development direction until Rossi started riding the de-stroked GP12. Michael has suggested that now that Hayden does not have to test for Rossi or ride a bike developed in Rossi's direction and he is free to set the bike up in his own direction his results are starting to reflect those of last year which were far better than they have been so far this year.
 
abraham a stupid moving chicane. ruined the final fast laps of the session for pedrosa... anyway all 3 hondas where trading fasteset sector times till traffic got in the way
 
It seems that it really boils down to the ability of bringing the (current Bridgestone) tires up to optimal temperature, especially the front one. All bike-rider combinations that can bring enough heat into those Bridgestone tires are fast; all others are way behind. It's not just a problem of the bike, it is the bike-rider combination: Elias is a good rider and he is on a Honda -- but his style doesn't stress the (current Bridgestone) tires enough and even the Honda is slow if its tires cannot get to the right temperature. So Toni looks like a dog, but he is not.



Stoner on the Ducati was able to heat the tires up in just one lap -- this is unparalleled. Rossi can't do the same because he doesn't feel the bike right so he doesn't push -- but this Ducati never feels right on cold tires, so it is a catch-22. The changes they are making to the Ducati are not aimed at correcting a "flawed" bike (Preziosi is not convinced at all that the basic design is flawed) but at allowing Vale to feel confident enough to push -- Preziosi believes that if and when enough heat builds into the tires, the Ducati "magically" transforms into a competitive and good-handling bike. The difference the 1000cc engine makes in the rideability of the Ducati may just be that more torque and power allow for the tires heating a little better and faster.
 
It seems that it really boils down to the ability of bringing the (current Bridgestone) tires up to optimal temperature, especially the front one. All bike-rider combinations that can bring enough heat into those Bridgestone tires are fast; all others are way behind. It's not just a problem of the bike, it is the bike-rider combination: Elias is a good rider and he is on a Honda -- but his style doesn't stress the (current Bridgestone) tires enough and even the Honda is slow if its tires cannot get to the right temperature.





Stoner on the Ducati was able to heat the tires up in just one lap -- this is unparalleled. Rossi can't do the same because he doesn't feel the bike right so he doesn't push -- but this Ducati never feels right on cold tires, so it is a catch-22. The changes they are making to the Ducati are not aimed at correcting a "flawed" bike (Preziosi is not convinced at all that the basic design is flawed) but at allowing Vale to feel confident enough to push -- Preziosi believes that if and when enough heat builds into the tires, the Ducati "magically" transforms into a competitive and good-handling bike. The difference the 1000cc engine makes in the rideability of the Ducati may just be that more torque and power allow for the tires heating a little better and faster.



Therein lies the rub....and as for the 1000cc version it was still much slower than the 800cc times of the Honda and Yamaha at the recent Mugello tests - I think Preziosi is in denial.
 
Lorenzo retaliates in FP3

motogp report FP3 sachsenring

Saturday, 16 July 2011

Defending World Champion Jorge Lorenzo lead the MotoGP field in the last practice session before qualifying at the eni Motorrad Grand Prix Deutschland, in front of Dani Pedrosa and Marco Simoncelli.



In a warm and sunny final practice session before qualifying, Lorenzo took his Yamaha Factory Racing YZR-M1 to the top of the timings with a lap of 1'22.112, which was 0.041s faster than the time set by Dani Pedrosa on his Repsol Honda.



Marco Simoncelli appeared ready to top the timings once more, after leading the previous two free practice sessions and setting the pace in the first part of the heat, until he crashed in turn 11 with 15 minutes to go. He rejoined the session to put down a lap time of 1'22.159, putting him in third in session.



Casey Stoner (Repsol Honda), who finished third in the German GP last year, set his best lap of 1'22.386 to land fourth place, 0.055s ahead of team mate Andrea Dovizioso in fifth. Nicky Hayden, who has more podiums at Sachsenring than any other circuit, followed with a 1'22.500. The Kentuckian was 0.094s quicker than Álvaro Bautista (Rizla Suzuki) who was seventh.



Ben Spies’ best lap of 1'22.772 placed him eighth, while Randy de Puniet (Pramac Racing) continued his improving form with a 1'22.841 to put him ninth. Colin Edwards (Monster Yamaha Tech 3) followed the Frenchman by 0.277s, completing the top ten riders.



Valentino Rossi (Ducati Team) was 12th in the field, while Héctor Barberá (Mapfre Aspar), recovering from a crash in FP2 on Friday, was 15th.
 
What's up with Stoner, i thought they made improvements in Mugello tests and i'm not seeing much of it.



I hope he can pull his act together and start doing well (better) again, JLo is pushing hard and will catch up quick if this keeps going on.



Everytime he doesn't dominate and risks losing point advantage i can't help but to remember frrikkin' Jerez race. Shakes head to shake off bad vibes



Edit: Silly me, Good for Pedro, i'm happy he's doing well so far, Simo is flying on the Honda and JLo is allso taking off now. Will be a tough top 4, i hope Pedro can keep it up all race.
 

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