Sachsenring predictions, practice, quali

Tom · Jul 16, 2011

jazkat said:
im cool with rossi being nearly last, hopefully it fuels motivation...

when will ducati realise the gp11.46.v2 is ready for the skip

i say scrap that idea and go back to the drawing board

the engine is superb but the handling..... the bike is capable of going quicker but me thinks rossi doesnt wanna bin it which he probably know will happen.

I question almost all of this post. Rossi's terrible form recently has definitely left him demotivated, you can see it quite clearly in his riding, his interviews and press releases.

Also it is an increasingly popular opinion that the Ducati's engine is causing much of their problems, perhaps more so than the chassis. The GP12 is an extremely new bike and is competing long before it was originally intended to, it might not be wise of them to ditch it so soon.

truent · Jul 16, 2011

geez.. rossi's best from each session..

the last column is the gap to the front.. not much progress after fp2.. and actually slower in quali than fp3..

FP1

14 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team Ducati 275.2 1'24.512 1.689

FP2

12 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team Ducati 277.1 1'23.533 1.308

FP3

12 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team Ducati 279.2 1'23.279 1.167

QP

16 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team Ducati 279.1 1'23.320 1.639

i saw a tweet from spies saying he was under the weather.. and he was apologizing for being short with people.. hope he can get it together for tomorrow.. he's close enough..

the one thing i expected this year was some more teammate battles.. it seems like the way todays races go, its either honda or yamaha that has it worked out for the weekend, but thats fine with me as long as two teammates are battling.. some doohan/criville battles come to mind.. but spies hasn't really come through consistently enough yet, and pedro's recovering.. i still believe this could be a good year if they all remain healthy and get the kinks out

xx CURVE xx · Jul 16, 2011

jazkat said:
im cool with rossi being nearly last, hopefully it fuels motivation...

when will ducati realise the gp11.46.v2 is ready for the skip

i say scrap that idea and go back to the drawing board

the engine is superb but the handling..... the bike is capable of going quicker but me thinks rossi doesnt wanna bin it which he probably know will happen.

what do you expect when you bolt on a Lighting Truss to that engine and call it a frame

Delta Box type frame is the only way to go imo.

jazkat · Jul 16, 2011

Tom said:
I question almost all of this post. Rossi's terrible form recently has definitely left him demotivated, you can see it quite clearly in his riding, his interviews and press releases.

Also it is an increasingly popular opinion that the Ducati's engine is causing much of their problems, perhaps more so than the chassis. The GP12 is an extremely new bike and is competing long before it was originally intended to, it might not be wise of them to ditch it so soon.

what i meant was i hope it makes them work harder....

engine performance..... yes it does have problems, hopefully they have a V engine in the works (dreaming) as i hear the L does add to the problems.

i didnt mean scrap the gp12 just the 11.1 for this year and go back to the old setup.

allow chasis and a new v motor is what they need, im sure in the long run they will waste more money ....... about than they would to design a new machine.

michaelm · Jul 16, 2011

Goatboy said:
The best at setting up a bike is clearly Bautista.

Perhaps something to do with bautista being really, really good.

The point someone made is valid though, if rossi and jb had turned up at suzuki this year with the same funding as they brought/was available to ducati, rossi might well be doing a lot better than at ducati, and possibly quite well in absolute terms. Suzuki are another team who have apparently suffered with the control tyre, but I can see no reason why rossi couldn't have tweaked what is a conventional chassis to suit those tyres.

ptk50 · Jul 16, 2011

truent said:
geez.. rossi's best from each session..

the last column is the gap to the front.. not much progress after fp2.. and actually slower in quali than fp3..

FP1

14 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team Ducati 275.2 1'24.512 1.689

FP2

12 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team Ducati 277.1 1'23.533 1.308

FP3

12 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team Ducati 279.2 1'23.279 1.167

QP

16 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team Ducati 279.1 1'23.320 1.639

i saw a tweet from spies saying he was under the weather.. and he was apologizing for being short with people.. hope he can get it together for tomorrow.. he's close enough..

the one thing i expected this year was some more teammate battles.. it seems like the way todays races go, its either honda or yamaha that has it worked out for the weekend, but thats fine with me as long as two teammates are battling.. some doohan/criville battles come to mind.. but spies hasn't really come through consistently enough yet, and pedro's recovering.. i still believe this could be a good year if they all remain healthy and get the kinks out

yup

pretty dam miserable - fp1 - i can sort of understand - crash and medical attention.

but after that got to be at the back and stayed there - aka really at the back

he's got to be missing jb and really pissed

all that said i'll tip for his habitual 6th in the race - if he isn't so pissed that he drops it

oh - more cheerful note - CS to win & 1st podium for Simo

Mr Squiggle · Jul 16, 2011

cliché guevara said:
how many races has rossi led so far?do you think,even with all the effort of ducati ,he will be a front runner at least some time during this year?

if he does not win and the gp12 is expected to perform as bad as its 800cc version does now rossi will surely quit at the end of the season

interesting , i did't know forcada worked with stoner.

i wonder where this myth that stoner can just "trash the bike" came from?

Yes he has worked with many riders over the years including Barros, Dovi and Pedrosa too....he was Stoners crew chief at LCR.

http://plus.autosport.com/free/feature/3646/tales-from-a-motogp-star-maker/

I have read another article previously where he stated Casey was able to understand the changes made to a bike very rapidly and has a great understanding of how the setup changes that are made to a bike will fundamentally change its character in either a positive or negative way.

truent · Jul 16, 2011

ptk50 said:
yup

pretty dam miserable - fp1 - i can sort of understand - crash and medical attention.

but after that got to be at the back and stayed there - aka really at the back

he's got to be missing jb and really pissed

all that said i'll tip for his habitual 6th in the race - if he isn't so pissed that he drops it

oh - more cheerful note - CS to win & 1st podium for Simo

Yeah, Simoncelli needs to get some results.. not that anyone on the grid wouldn't be willing to take a chance with him, but history is full of people who qualify well but cant pull it together in the race.. Like others have said.. Stoner and Lorenzo took some time to get the hang of it.. but once they did, wow. I'm looking forward to seeing Simo do it big, as he's one of the only riders (with a chance) that doesn't seem to just dish out sponsor/team/politically correct crap all the time .. I really like spies.. and have followed him forever.. but he seems to work real hard to not show any emotion and just say the normal "we're gonna give 110%, we need a good start.. get to the front blah blah blah" stuff hah

mylexicon · Jul 16, 2011

xx CURVE xx said:
what do you expect when you bolt on a Lighting Truss to that engine and call it a frame

Delta Box type frame is the only way to go imo.

Possibly, Ducati haven't done much since adopting the monocoque frame, but Casey's illness in 2009 certainly didn't help matters.

I think it is more to do with the engine. Destroking the 1000cc engine to 800cc and lengthening the rods has not been a successful strategy. Interesting information for next year when teams will not actually be required to run at 1000cc (unless it is stipulated in the commercial contracts we don't see). A 1000cc engine will probably be necessary for good qualifying positions in 2012. If the bike becomes unrideable with a destroked engine, it may force teams to run at 1000cc no matter what.

Only Ducati have tried this strategy, though. I have a strange feeling Honda could make it work. As much as I loathe the Honda bureaucracy, the engineering department is a remarkable group of people.

Willski · Jul 16, 2011

mylexicon said:
Possibly, Ducati haven't done much since adopting the monocoque frame, but Casey's illness in 2009 certainly didn't help matters.

I think it is more to do with the engine. Destroking the 1000cc engine to 800cc and lengthening the rods has not been a successful strategy. Interesting information for next year when teams will not actually be required to run at 1000cc (unless it is stipulated in the commercial contracts we don't see). A 1000cc engine will probably be necessary for good qualifying positions in 2012. If the bike becomes unrideable with a destroked engine, it may force teams to run at 1000cc no matter what.

Only Ducati have tried this strategy, though. I have a strange feeling Honda could make it work. As much as I loathe the Honda bureaucracy, the engineering department is a remarkable group of people.

Goota agree Lex.

Missed Qualifying live on TV but just watched it. Love him or hate him, you just gotta love the way Stoner rides a bike. Just awesome IMO

cliche guevara · Jul 16, 2011

Mr Squiggle said:
he was Stoners crew chief at LCR.

I have read another article previously where he stated Casey was able to understand the changes made to a bike very rapidly and has a great understanding of how the setup changes that are made to a bike will fundamentally change its character in either a positive or negative way.

whoa....does this mean stoner hates forcada?

that stoner has the ability to evaluate bike changes quickly is obvious, i think hes notorious for his 2 or maximum 3 lap stints in practice since he got to motogp

ScottP · Jul 16, 2011

Poor

Rossi whata can you say??? …another Italiano rider bites the dust with the Ducati..that Duc is an Italiano riders nightmare and killer…I can never see Rossi doing well on the Ducati, things are not getting better but are getting far worst

!!!

chopperman · Jul 16, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
Pretty ironic that the serial road block is having a go at another rider. Barbara has ruined more laps than Rossi's Ducati!

Funny but true

Bunyip · Jul 16, 2011

michaelm said:
Perhaps something to do with bautista being really, really good.

The point someone made is valid though, if rossi and jb had turned up at suzuki this year with the same funding as they brought/was available to ducati, rossi might well be doing a lot better than at ducati, and possibly quite well in absolute terms. Suzuki are another team who have apparently suffered with the control tyre, but I can see no reason why rossi couldn't have tweaked what is a conventional chassis to suit those tyres.

Perhaps Rossi can move to Suzuki next year and with all his sponsorship money enable Suzuki to fund a second bike. As Rossi may well have burnt his bridges with honda and Yamaha , Suzuki seems his only option..............apart from retirement.

And, as you say, a conventional chassied suzuki has scope for imrovement. But does JB have another move in him? I fear not.

Ducati has really cemented its reputation as a career killer.

Although Rossi would still be competitive at Honda or Yamaha, why would they want him , when they both have riders with at least equal speed? Rossi,s options in motogp are close to zero. Will it be rallying or wsbk?

Goatboy · Jul 16, 2011

After two years of paying for their effort themselves Yamaha might not be such a bad option if Fiat or similar are willing to come on-board.

Pinky · Jul 16, 2011

Bunyip said:
Ducati has really cemented its reutation as a career killer.

except for stoner and hayden

rossi has already given hiself a save face get-out cloase by saying 2 races into a 2 year contract that he'll want to do wbsk. and his fans dont care, they just want him to win, if it aint gonna be in motogp then do it in wsbk against a 40 year old biaggi... hahaha

Mackie · Jul 16, 2011

Goatboy said:
After two years of paying for their effort themselves Yamaha might not be such a bad option if Fiat or similar are willing to come on-board.

This has been suggested before, possibly with a 'Nastro Azzura NSR500' type situation as in 2000-01.

I believe that Rossi will be consulting his contractual lawyer at present. The loss of Jeremy Burgess is obviously seriously effecting the way the team functions also.

What is clear is that Ducati's efforts to plug the holes have been a disaster for Rossi and this current experiment.

Even the other top riders are taking pity on him, which is a very sad situation for a rider of the caliber of Rossi.

Otherwise the session was fairly predictable. Marco didn't quite get there. Dani must be very pleased, and Casey found a little extra at the end.

It actually might end up being a good race between the Honda's, and Lorenzo to surprise again?

hawkdriver · Jul 16, 2011

Pinky said:
except for stoner and hayden

rossi has already given hiself a save face get-out cloase by saying 2 races into a 2 year contract that he'll want to do wbsk. and his fans dont care, they just want him to win, if it aint gonna be in motogp then do it in wsbk against a 40 year old biaggi... hahaha

He was actually talking about going to WSBK before this season started, Ducati should just go there anyway they can't hang in GP. I don't watch to much WSBK but I would if Nicky went there and as an older fan I would love to see a line up of Nicky, CE, Rossi, Biaggi, Checca, Corser, Melandri, and the rest going at it. WSBK should be hounding these guys while they're depressed about their current situations.

hawkdriver · Jul 16, 2011

michaelm said:
There's the rub. He may even be right, but only if they still had the radical 2007 bridgestone asymmetric tyres, around which to be fair the bike was designed.

Otherwise they either need to go to at least a narrower angle V4 and probably a conventional chassis, if rossi has or is prepared to put in the time to develop it, or go back to the screamer engine, back to the 2009 front:rear bias, and scour the world for someone who can ride it like stoner, since the way he rode it seems to be the only way to go fast with anything resembling the current design. I am not among those claiming this makes him better than rossi overall, just (apparently) better at riding 800 motogp ducatis.

I could imagine Ducati sending out a scout team to Australia in hopes of finding another dirt track hero

Nino · Jul 16, 2011

Mr Squiggle said:
I am a fan of motorcycle racing - not single riders....and as usual you avoided the simple question I posed earlier....so I will ask you again.....

So who in your opinion is the best rider at setting up a bike currently?

I bet you are so ....... dumb you cant even answer that one easy question

Course you are.

As for your your stupid question, I just don't care about what you have to ask me you ........

Stoner - genius at bike setup

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Sachsenring predictions, practice, quali

Tom

truent

xx CURVE xx

jazkat

michaelm

ptk50

Mr Squiggle

truent

mylexicon

Willski

cliche guevara

ScottP

chopperman

Bunyip

Goatboy

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Mackie

hawkdriver

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Nino

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