Round 12 Silverstone: Practice, Qualifying, Race

I really enjoy wet races. You simply have no idea how they'll turn out. This one delivered. The results were generally unexpected I think. Cal was strong and I'm sure the rookie will get a very stern speech from several members of the team. Lorenzo looked to be struggling from the start and the shell he took from Pol helped little I imagine. We'll hear more from JL and MM soon about exactly what went wrong. Krop asked a question or two in the post presser so I'm sure he'll have rider reaction in detail on his site.

One thing I find somewhat disappointing here is the idea that the GP14 is so good in the wet that Danilo needed only to survive and the podium was his. If you watch all the post race press you'd see that both Rossi and Dovi spoke quite highly of his wet abilities(they all train together). Additionally, Dovi said that watching Danilo from behind he was shocked that he was able to finish because he was braking so late and so fiercely that he couldn't see him finishing. The same sentiment was echo'd by the Premac telemetry guy. The wet always illuminates hidden talent. Riders who are otherwise hampered by equipment are now permitted to display what skill they possess on a more level playing field.

The wet creates parity that otherwise doesn't exist. Rossi is always strong in the wet because he's a student of race craft. Nicky is always strong in the wet. There are several riders who are wet specialists because they're particularly skilled when the bike moves.

Danilo was fierce and if you watch that race closely, he rode hard. Let him have this moment, he deserves it. We should always celebrate guys like Danilo. They grind it out at the back of the field and have generally unrewarding careers. Someone somewhere however knows what they bring to the table otherwise they'd not be given the gear to line up.

Lorenzo will be back, he will be strong and this result will not slow him. That was Rossi's post race assessment going forward and I think he's right. Additionally, with MM now fully out of contention is he more or less dangerous? I think more. We're a long way from the end.

Marquez is a constant cause for concern. Exciting to watch he may be, but we have learnt that he is far from predictable. Will he learn to be more so in his career? Perhaps, but I do believe when the chips are down, unless something drastically changes, his occasional rash decision making will prevent him from winning as many championships as he should/could.

levigarrett said:

I really enjoy wet races. You simply have no idea how they'll turn out. This one delivered. The results were generally unexpected I think. Cal was strong and I'm sure the rookie will get a very stern speech from several members of the team. Lorenzo looked to be struggling from the start and the shell he took from Pol helped little I imagine. We'll hear more from JL and MM soon about exactly what went wrong. Krop asked a question or two in the post presser so I'm sure he'll have rider reaction in detail on his site.

One thing I find somewhat disappointing here is the idea that the GP14 is so good in the wet that Danilo needed only to survive and the podium was his. If you watch all the post race press you'd see that both Rossi and Dovi spoke quite highly of his wet abilities(they all train together). Additionally, Dovi said that watching Danilo from behind he was shocked that he was able to finish because he was braking so late and so fiercely that he couldn't see him finishing. The same sentiment was echo'd by the Premac telemetry guy. The wet always illuminates hidden talent. Riders who are otherwise hampered by equipment are now permitted to display what skill they possess on a more level playing field.

The wet creates parity that otherwise doesn't exist. Rossi is always strong in the wet because he's a student of race craft. Nicky is always strong in the wet. There are several riders who are wet specialists because they're particularly skilled when the bike moves.

Danilo was fierce and if you watch that race closely, he rode hard. Let him have this moment, he deserves it. We should always celebrate guys like Danilo. They grind it out at the back of the field and have generally unrewarding careers. Someone somewhere however knows what they bring to the table otherwise they'd not be given the gear to line up.

Lorenzo will be back, he will be strong and this result will not slow him. That was Rossi's post race assessment going forward and I think he's right. Additionally, with MM now fully out of contention is he more or less dangerous? I think more. We're a long way from the end.

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Funny how I always think the parity is a matter of more caution on the part of the riders and or advantages based on longer wheel based bikes - but really, it's a question of more talent and less reliance on the freakin' electronics. This race really seemed to expose that dynamic more than any other rain race I've watched.

I missed the first 3/4 of the race and watched the last 15 min on my phone. Now after watching the beginning in re-play, I thought Miller's move was pure adrenal, rookie stupidity. I was shocked to see him try to take that many places in one turn. I'm guessing he stayed clear of Cal's trailer for the rest of the day.

Generally I find that rain races always seen like Mexican Manatee ..... - but this really was a suspenseful and entertaining race to watch. Sux that Lorenzo was not more up at the pointy end. Expect him to come gunning for Rossi at Misano; Lorenzo will bust a nut trying - right to the bitter end.

ratdeal said:

Marquez is a constant cause for concern. Exciting to watch he may be, but we have learnt that he is far from predictable. Will he learn to be more so in his career? Perhaps, but I do believe when the chips are down, unless something drastically changes, his occasional rash decision making will prevent him from winning as many championships as he should/could.

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Personally - I don't think MM rode irresponsibly today. He didn't appear to do anything outrageous when he went down. It was rather like when Stoner went down for no apparent reason. Wet tracks are always unpredictable and the Honda in general are a bit peakier. Notice that none of the Honda riders had much luck in this race. Dani - who is a decent wet rider - was riding unusually conservative today.

Keshav said:

Personally - I don't think MM rode irresponsibly today. He didn't appear to do anything outrageous when he went down. It was rather like when Stoner went down for no apparent reason. Wet tracks are always unpredictable and the Honda in general are a bit peakier. Notice that none of the Honda riders had much luck in this race. Dani - who is a decent wet rider - was riding unusually conservative today.

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I agree. In fact, it was clear that MM had sufficient pace to keep up. I thought he was being particularly patient until the crash. Lorenzo helmet contract for 2016 is up for grabs. If you watch him entering the box after the race, he's fogged pretty badly. That's amateur hour for HJC. Second time this has happened to him.

Keshav said:

Personally - I don't think MM rode irresponsibly today. He didn't appear to do anything outrageous when he went down. It was rather like when Stoner went down for no apparent reason. Wet tracks are always unpredictable and the Honda in general are a bit peakier. Notice that none of the Honda riders had much luck in this race. Dani - who is a decent wet rider - was riding unusually conservative today.

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I appreciate your point of view, but he was really skittish in a lot of the braking zones and I felt he was marginal during certain passes. What really took the biscuit was him throwing up his arms and looking confused just after the crash. The way I saw his body language was that he didn't understand why he crashed. I often feel that when he does crash, I'm never quite sure in the lead up if he has a bit in hand or if he just inconsistent when entering corners? Anyway this is just my perception. To his credit, he always gives 100% and a race is always, always exciting when he is in contention.

Keshav said:

Personally - I don't think MM rode irresponsibly today. He didn't appear to do anything outrageous when he went down. It was rather like when Stoner went down for no apparent reason. Wet tracks are always unpredictable and the Honda in general are a bit peakier. Notice that none of the Honda riders had much luck in this race. Dani - who is a decent wet rider - was riding unusually conservative today.

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Kesh, he slipped down on the side of the bike in the middle of the corner and upset the entire balance of the bike. Him throwing his hands up was laughable since as far as I could tell, he caused the entire sequence of events. Why he slipped is more of what my question is. They only showed one replay of the whole thing so I couldn't really analyze it.

ratdeal said:

I appreciate your point of view, but he was really skittish in a lot of the braking zones and I felt he was marginal during certain passes. What really took the biscuit was him throwing up his arms and looking confused just after the crash. The way I saw his body language was that he didn't understand why he crashed. I often feel that when he does crash, I'm never quite sure in the lead up if he has a bit in hand or if he just inconsistent when entering corners? Anyway this is just my perception. To his credit, he always gives 100% and a race is always, always exciting when he is in contention.

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I felt that way too. I saw him at times right on the limit (not irresponsible) and got caught out for going over the limit. At least that was my perception as well

ratdeal said:

I appreciate your point of view, but he was really skittish in a lot of the braking zones and I felt he was marginal during certain passes. What really took the biscuit was him throwing up his arms and looking confused just after the crash. The way I saw his body language was that he didn't understand why he crashed. I often feel that when he does crash, I'm never quite sure in the lead up if he has a bit in hand or if he just inconsistent when entering corners? Anyway this is just my perception. To his credit, he always gives 100% and a race is always, always exciting when he is in contention.

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I noticed MM was trying to slide the rear at the end of some of the braking zones which had me wondering what was going through his head. When I see stuff like that in those conditions, it just makes me wonder what goes through his head.

I was glad he crashed out because I was waiting for the battering ram scenario to unfold towards the end, and we were spared of something horrifically dangerous unfolding out there.

I give Rossi a lot of hate here, but I give him tremendous kudos for the way he rode today. He was so smooth through the corners and with his throttle control. He rode as a smart of a race as I've ever seen as he managed the gaps as necessary, did just enough to stay in front, but didn't get involved with unnecessarily stupid risk-taking like Miller did, and like Marquez probably would have had he still been in the race.

Well just as I thought...

“In some parts I was faster but in other points I had the character of the bike, that floating feeling in the rear, that we had at the beginning of the season". - Marquez

Lorenzo's visor was already badly fogged up during the first warmup lap. The commentators made note of it during the bike switch on pit lane just before the red flag.
Looks like an HJC issue. since they had ample warning it was going to happen and couldn't sort it out.

steeeeeve said:

Lorenzo's visor was already badly fogged up during the first warmup lap. The commentators made note of it during the bike switch on pit lane just before the red flag.
Looks like an HJC issue. since they had ample warning it was going to happen and couldn't sort it out.

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Hmm. He shouldn't be steaming inside his helmet so much... :evil2:

ratdeal said:

Well just as I thought...

“In some parts I was faster but in other points I had the character of the bike, that floating feeling in the rear, that we had at the beginning of the season". - Marquez

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Sounds to me like they just didn't have the best possible set-up for rain with this iteration of the Honda for this particular track. Happens. The Yamahas and Ducatis are known for being more forgiving. No biggie. Like I said even Stoner, (famed especially during his time at Ducati for constantly being on the verge of crashing) - who I rate higher as a rider, had moments (in the dry no less) when he lost it for no apparent reason. If we assume that MM is apportioning some degree of responsibility for the crash on the set-up, he's half the equation (the crew being the other) and I doubt he'd imply that he's not at least half responsible for any inadequacy in the set-up.

steeeeeve said:

Lorenzo's visor was already badly fogged up during the first warmup lap. The commentators made note of it during the bike switch on pit lane just before the red flag.
Looks like an HJC issue. since they had ample warning it was going to happen and couldn't sort it out.

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You all know my connection with shark helmets.

Lorenzo was asking 900,000 euros for helmet sponsorship, too expensive for Shark to even consider it, but looks like Lorenzo cheaper helmet with lots of $ponsorship money is costing him the championship this year.
Two races messed up by his helmet

Is the money really worth it?

Mike DiMeglio who used to wear a Shark, now wearing a HJC purely for sponsorhip money, came to the shark trailer after the race to socialize as we are all friends and complained about his helmet, said he couldn't see .... because of fogging.

Bradley Smith's dad, Alan asked if we had any issues with our helmets,
my friend Jean Jacques, the Shark motogp helmet tech said we had ZERO issues with fogging, Alan was kind of baffled.

In moto3, you can see Fabio Quartararo riding with his visor open on his Shoei helmet.

ratdeal said:

Well just as I thought...

“In some parts I was faster but in other points I had the character of the bike, that floating feeling in the rear, that we had at the beginning of the season". - Marquez

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He's a ....... ......

Can't possibly ever be his fault.

It's sort of impressive that he has that sort of ignorance.

Jumkie said:

Birdman, I mentioned this somewhere, but VR couldn't get a whiff of a win last year in the first third of the season, this year he opens the season with a win (Qatar) and backs it up in the third round (ARG) with another, and another at Assen. Meanwhile everybody is saying, holly ...., the RCV is crap! Meanwhile the 4th best factory rider on one of the 4 best bikes went from being the worst of the top 4 to leading the points for over half the season. Uhm...what changed? The RCV dissolved to feces?

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In terms of the intra-Yamaha battle, by 2014 VR had had time to reintegrate himself into the Yamaha time and would also have had input into the development of the bike.

The simplest explanation for VR vs. MM seems to be that in 2014 the Honda was significantly superior to the M1. In 2015 it wasn't. In other words, it's unclear to what extent MM's 2014 dominance was due to superior ability vs. a superior machine.

As to his crash-prone 2015 season, I'd suspect it's a combination of overdriving a less competitive bike, and having the handling characteristics less suited to his personal technique. I suspect that the tougher competition may also have exposed a few psychological cracks.

JPSLotus said:

He's a ....... ......

Can't possibly ever be his fault.

It's sort of impressive that he has that sort of ignorance.

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You're determined to read "cop-out" where everyone else is reading "the bike set-up was not optimal". I find him to be a twit and think some of his behavior in his Moto2 days was reprehensible. I'm not being the devil's advocate - but really how you can read into a simple few sentences from a guy for whom English is not a first language, a complete rejection of any responsibility for the crash is beyond me. MM said in a paddock interview even before the race was done that it was his fault.

shovelhead said:

You all know my connection with shark helmets.

Lorenzo was asking 900,000 euros for helmet sponsorship, too expensive for Shark to even consider it, but looks like Lorenzo cheaper helmet with lots of $ponsorship money is costing him the championship this year.
Two races messed up by his helmet

Is the money really worth it?

Mike DiMeglio who used to wear a Shark, now wearing a HJC purely for sponsorhip money, came to the shark trailer after the race to socialize as we are all friends and complained about his helmet, said he couldn't see .... because of fogging.

Bradley Smith's dad, Alan asked if we had any issues with our helmets,
my friend Jean Jacques, the Shark motogp helmet tech said we had ZERO issues with fogging, Alan was kind of baffled.

In moto3, you can see Fabio Quartararo riding with his visor open on his Shoei helmet.

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Really!? That's awesome! I've always liked the styling of Shark helmets since I saw them in the early 2000's; they weren't purchasable in the States at that time though. Hoping to find the Corser replica with the Gator design.

HEISMAN said:

Really!? That's awesome! I've always liked the styling of Shark helmets since I saw them in the early 2000's; they weren't purchasable in the States at that time though. Hoping to find the Corser replica with the Gator design.

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I actually had that helmet. It kept getting mistaken as a confederate flag.

Keshav said:

You're determined to read "cop-out" where everyone else is reading "the bike set-up was not optimally". I find him to be a twit and think some of his behavior in his Moto2 days was reprehensible. I'm not being the devil's advocate - but really how you can read into a simple few sentences from a guy for whom English is not a first language, a complete rejection of any responsibility for the crash is beyond me. MM said in a paddock interview even before the race was done that it was his fault.

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Because he always resorts to blaming some aspect of the bike when he crashes out. He will say it was his fault sometimes, but then quickly is sure to attribute something to the bike where he can to take himself out of it.

Yeah English is not his first language, but I haven't seen him complain that he is being misunderstood by the press. Maybe he has and I haven't seen that. You think he might misunderstood, I surely don't.

“In rain I had that feeling which was difficult to manage during the race. I tried to manage it but in the end when I was behind Valentino I arrived at the end of the straight, I braked and lost the rear, the rear was locked. Just as I tried to save the crash I was already flying.”

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He was already in the middle of the corner. He makes it sound like it happened on the straight.

This is what I'm saying Kesh, he's so ....... disingenuous with everything he says and most no one says otherwise. He had the journos eating of his hand saying the RCV was the worst bike on the grid for months on end, where you could have been mistaken into think the Aprilia was a better bike if you never looked at the actual race results.