Round 12 Silverstone: Practice, Qualifying, Race

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Jumkie said:
Pushing to the limit, or beyond the limit? Had he been pushing to the limit he would be in a circle jerk with Rossi and Lorenzo for the title right this very moment! But he rode like an ....... thinking, like many, that this was reasonable. Had he been riding the full version 2015 like he did at Indy and Brno, he would be in championship contention. Would u or anyone like to dispute this point? So the 2015 bike was never the problem to contend this year's title!!! Repeat this until u get its implications. Think this point through a bit. Am I right?

Well thats the point im making J4ns, he is NOT riding the 2014/15 bike like an ......., though if im to believe Arrabi, thats what Marc wanted given his reversion. He is riding it decidedly NOT like he rode 2014, but rather a bit more measured as some here have thoughtfully pointed out, and this I believe accounts for his renewed success. Following Jlo around knowing he can pass him at the penultimate lap, is the new civil Marc. Wanting to slam into the back of him is the ....... Marc that cost him 3 crashed, this is NOT to be confused with some hardware change.

This dude traded 20 points for 0 more than once. 20=runner up, thats second place over everybody else, but im supposed to believe the runner-up quality bike had some crisis deficiency that needed immediate revamping? I got some beachfront properties in Kansas for sale.
Click to expand...

The first time I have ever seen marquez ride an intelligent and calculated race was in Indy. Previous to that, I cant recall him ever showing patience. You have to forgive our mate Arabb for his erronious conclusions. We all are "generally aware" that he is an intelligent and learned man. Perhaps his perspective was ascertained from studying under the tutelage of Professor Ted Wells school of illogical conclusions
 
Jumkie said:
Pushing to the limit, or beyond the limit? He was pushing to the limit and went beyond it, that's what caused his problems, NOTHING else. Had he been pushing to the limit he would be in a circle jerk with Rossi and Lorenzo for the title right this very moment! But he rode like an ....... thinking, like many, that this was reasonable. Had he been riding the full version 2015 like he did at Indy and Brno, he would be in championship contention. Would u or anyone like to dispute this point? So the 2015 bike was never the problem to contend this year's title!!! Repeat this until u get its implications. Think this point through a bit. Am I right?

Well thats the point im making J4ns, he is NOT riding the 2014/15 bike like an ......., though if im to believe Arrabi, thats what Marc wanted given his reversion. He is riding it decidedly NOT like he rode 2014, but rather a bit more measured as some here have thoughtfully pointed out, and this I believe accounts for his renewed success. Following Jlo around knowing he can pass him at the penultimate lap, is the new civil Marc. Wanting to slam into the back of him is the ....... Marc that cost him 3 crashes, this is NOT to be confused with some hardware change.

This dude traded 20 points for 0 more than once. 20=runner up, thats second place over everybody else, but im supposed to believe the runner-up quality bike had some crisis deficiency that needed immediate revamping? I got some beachfront properties in Kansas for sale.
Click to expand...

I think it cuts both ways Jumkie.

Simple arithmetic certainly suggests he could be close to the lead or even leading the championship if he had finished second and harvested 20 points rather than dnfed chasing unlikely wins in more than one race this year.

It does seem revisions to, or reversion of, the chassis have resulted in a bike in which he feels more confidence and can ride more confidently/consistently; he certainly says so anyway, and is presumably in a position of some authority to say so. He is however in his 3rd year in the HRC team and is very definitely the lead rider, with the crew he has insisted he have (the guys who sent him out to skittle the unfortunate Willairot), so if he allowed a bike which didn't suit him that is his problem, prodigy though he may be. Mick Doohan is on the record as saying one of his major roles during his championship winning run with HRC was to stop most of the constant attempts by the engineers to "improve" his bike.
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
No one mentioned a 'decline and collapse' of Honda.
Click to expand...

Seriously compa, I was actually LOL. This reminds me of the Senate inquiry post 911 when the question was on the table regarding the attack, and our security advisor, a hack for the then administration, was trying to make the case they had absolutely no idea something like this might happen. So the senator asks her to read the title of a memo they had received from the intelligence department, which she did, and it went something like this: "bin laden determined to attack the US..." in which it outlined using airplanes as missiles. Well my friend, Kropo had an article with almost exactly the title you say no one mentioned, hahahaha. Here is the title: "The Slow Decline Of The Honda RC213V..." I couldn't make this .... up.


Arrabbiata1 said:
Marquez: I prefer my old bike
HRC: Why?
Marquez: The new one won't let me ride it the way I want
HRC: Why?
Marquez: The motor is peaky and the chassis is unforgiving. Can I have my old one back?
HRC: No
Marquez: Please
HRC: Ok then
Click to expand...

Marc: I prefer my old bike.
Honda: Why, this one is just as good.
Marc: because I'm crashing
Honda: And that is our fault?
Marc: Yes, the brakes don't work properly.
Honda: Well, the telemetry shows you didn't squeeze the lever.
Marc: Ah, in that case get me the old chassis.
Honda:will that get you to squeeze the lever next time?
Marc: I'm not making any promises, but I may try that strategy
Honda: Ok, here is the 2014.19 chassis, try squeezing the lever at the following rounds, see if that helps.
 
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michaelm said:
I think it cuts both ways Jumkie.

Simple arithmetic certainly suggests he could be close to the lead or even leading the championship if he had finished second and harvested 20 points rather than dnfed chasing unlikely wins in more than one race this year.

It does seem revisions to, or reversion of, the chassis have resulted in a bike in which he feels more confidence and can ride more confidently/consistently; he certainly says so anyway, and is presumably in a position of some authority to say so. He is however in his 3rd year in the HRC team and is very definitely the lead rider, with the crew he has insisted he have (the guys who sent him out to skittle the unfortunate Willairot), so if he allowed a bike which didn't suit him that is his problem, prodigy though he may be. Mick Doohan is on the record as saying one of his major roles during his championship winning run with HRC was to stop most of the constant attempts by the engineers to "improve" his bike.
Click to expand...
Hi Michael

Jumkie mentioned tires, and thinking back to 2012 the tires have played a part in each championship. In 2012 Honda did not sabotage Stoners championship with a turd of a bike as has been suggested this year. The new tire simply produced chatter to what was otherwise a very well developed machine. And in the end it was quoted to be solved by something like a $20 part. But let's not kid ourselves here, I'm a fan of Stoner but he had a championship capable machine in 2012 and it was his own errors and likely pressure from Lorenzo which prevented him winning it.

2013 again tires this time falling to pieces. 2014 heat resistant tires lacking edge grip, can't be good for corner speed king Lorenzo. And by coincidence this is where Marquez went on an unbeatable charge. Yet once Lorenzo had removed the Mosquitos from his visor and regained his confidence, already cracks were developing to quote Krop, the beginning of the decline of the Honda had already began. I would of of just said it was the return of Lorenzo, but I guess that's much less dramatic.
 
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michaelm said:
I think it cuts both ways Jumkie.

Simple arithmetic certainly suggests he could be close to the lead or even leading the championship if he had finished second and harvested 20 points rather than dnfed chasing unlikely wins in more than one race this year.

It does seem revisions to, or reversion of, the chassis have resulted in a bike in which he feels more confidence and can ride more confidently/consistently; he certainly says so anyway, and is presumably in a position of some authority to say so. He is however in his 3rd year in the HRC team and is very definitely the lead rider, with the crew he has insisted he have (the guys who sent him out to skittle the unfortunate Willairot), so if he allowed a bike which didn't suit him that is his problem, prodigy though he may be. Mick Doohan is on the record as saying one of his major roles during his championship winning run with HRC was to stop most of the constant attempts by the engineers to "improve" his bike.
Click to expand...

Marc not only blamed the: engine, power, electronics, chassis, swing arm, brakes, etc (not exaggerating, basically the whole bike) but he also blamed Stoner for developing a pig. Marc is not a novice, and perhaps has one of the best teams on the grid, certainly the most resourced, yet we are to believe he did not have any input in this process and they presented him with a pig-that is if we are to entertain this notion that the bike was ...., which based on its performance as a matter of record is a rather impossible mission to argue, though to my amazement, its being argued.

Simple arithmetic as you say points to a championship contending bike for this year, that is, the full version 2015 machine was title worthy, the numbers don't lie. But even the 2014 chassis is nothing more than the normal process of development. They could have simply made the 2014 chassis, painted it orange, and said, ok Marc, here is a "newer" 2015.2 chassis, you like it? then we wouldn't have pages of thinking this was not normal development claiming its reversion.
 
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Birdman, I mentioned this somewhere, but VR couldn't get a whiff of a win last year in the first third of the season, this year he opens the season with a win (Qatar) and backs it up in the third round (ARG) with another, and another at Assen. Meanwhile everybody is saying, holly ...., the RCV is crap! Meanwhile the 4th best factory rider on one of the 4 best bikes went from being the worst of the top 4 to leading the points for over half the season. Uhm...what changed? The RCV dissolved to feces?
 
Good point Jum hadn't thought of that, but it's obvious if anything would give Carmelo a hard on it would be a revitalised Rossi vs Marquez battle for the championship. And it would be working perfectly if only Marquez wasn't experiencing such problems with his declining Honda brake lever. Haha I'm still laughing about Marquez brakes not working properly that was a beer through nose moment haha ....... hilarious
 
birdman said:
Hi Michael

Jumkie mentioned tires, and thinking back to 2012 the tires have played a part in each championship. In 2012 Honda did not sabotage Stoners championship with a turd of a bike as has been suggested this year. The new tire simply produced chatter to what was otherwise a very well developed machine. And in the end it was quoted to be solved by something like a $20 part. But let's not kid ourselves here, I'm a fan of Stoner but he had a championship capable machine in 2012 and it was his own errors and likely pressure from Lorenzo which prevented him winning it.

2013 again tires this time falling to pieces. 2014 heat resistant tires lacking edge grip, can't be good for corner speed king Lorenzo. And by coincidence this is where Marquez went on an unbeatable charge. Yet once Lorenzo had removed the Mosquitos from his visor and regained his confidence, already cracks were developing to quote Krop, the beginning of the decline of the Honda had already began. I would of of just said it was the return of Lorenzo, but I guess that's much less dramatic.
Click to expand...
Sure, Stoner had a championship capable bike in 2012 regardless, and would in fact have been leading the championship after Sachsenring if he hadn't crashed through his own error on the second last corner. Regardless of his admitted deficiencies/incomplete focus prior to Indy he might still have crashed there and broken his ankle however, and I tend to think that crash was significantly down to local factors as several others crashed on the same corner at a track he had previously complained was substandard.

The 2012 bike as originally developed (presumably with significant input from Stoner) before the weight limit and tyres were altered by external influences was totally dominant rather than merely competitive in testing though, and the imposition of the changes seemed to add to his pre-existing negative mindset; Nakomoto has subsequently revealed that Stoner had really wanted to retire straight after the 2011 championship win.

If you wish to argue that Lorenzo is a better rider than Stoner as a total package, and in particular a more resilient one, you will get no dispute from me.
 
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Jumkie said:
Pushing to the limit, or beyond the limit? He was pushing to the limit and went beyond it, that's what caused his problems, NOTHING else. Had he been pushing to the limit he would be in a circle jerk with Rossi and Lorenzo for the title right this very moment! But he rode like an ....... thinking, like many, that this was sustainable, erroneously perceived notion that this would not lead to predictable crashes. Had he been riding the full version 2015 like he did at Indy and Brno, he would be in championship contention! Would u or anyone like to dispute this point? So the 2015 bike was never the problem to contend this year's title!!! Repeat this until u get its implications. Think this point through a bit. Am I right?

Well thats the point im making J4ns, he is NOT riding the 2014/15 bike like an ......., though if im to believe Arrabi, thats what Marc wanted given his reversion. He is riding it decidedly NOT like he rode 2014, but rather a bit more measured as some here have thoughtfully pointed out, and this I believe accounts for his renewed success. Following Jlo around knowing he can pass him at the penultimate lap, is the new civil Marc. Wanting to slam into the back of him is the ....... Marc that cost him 3 crashes, this is NOT to be confused with some hardware change.

This dude traded 20 points for 0 more than once. 20=runner up, thats second place over everybody else, but im supposed to believe the runner-up quality bike had some crisis deficiency that needed immediate revamping? I got some beachfront properties in Kansas for sale.
Click to expand...

Riding "like an ......." as you like to put it, gave him 2 titles in a row, the first one as the youngest rookie ever. And a record 10 wins in a row. I'm sure Honda are much more forgiving toward him than you. :)

And, with all the initial confusion this year, MM is still very much in contention anyway, considering his current results.
 
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Jum,
I'm intrigued.
Which side of your mouth does your tongue stick out of when you smash out these diatribes?
 

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