Rossi vs. Stoner (not a troll thread, promise...)

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I recall that, though had to BJC the details. It is interesting that both Pedrosa AND Honda were scathing of Michelin after that race:

MotoGP News - Pedrosa, Honda blast Michelin.

And this statement I found interesting:



It was mid 2008 that Pedrosa strongarmed his way to Bridgestones iirc correctly Jums. Rossi's infamous "I want Bridgestones or I quit" rant in 2007 is strong in my memory still.

While looking for that, I found this:

MotoGP: Bridgestone blame Valentino Rossi for one-make tyre proposal | MCN
Ah yes, I wrote 09, but it was 08 that Pedrosa switched, i knew it was shortly after the Brno debacle, as I said Carmelo was aware that Puig was pissed off. You don't want a guy like Alberto Puig pissed off. If he was willing to try and organize an open protest against Carmelo's Dorna, god only knows what .... he would have revealed in a moment of anger.
 
Mr. Arrivabene probably gave additional reasons to Stoner (and others) to leave Ducati, but had no power on who Honda hired. His Ferrari appointment was decided by Marchionne, who arrived at the top of Ferrari only recently through Fiat. Looks more like internal Marlboro career and sponsor politics to me...

Maybe Stoner would have left anyway once he got the Honda offer, but that is not what he says. He has said specifically on several occasions, including in his book, that he regarded Ducati as "family" and would have stayed loyal to them if they had stayed loyal to him by supporting him during his illness in 2009. Arrivabene seemed to be the one who lead the narrative back then that Stoner was malingering and/or flaky.

Stoner is obviously back with Ducati now, with those involved with Ducati in 2009 gone, and in choosing to be with them now seems to have also made the choice to be a Ducati guy rather than a Honda guy in his retirement.

I pointed out the irony of Arrivabene, a Marlboro advertising executive, denying the existence of a health problem at the time in 2009. JPS (another tobacco link) is in agreement with you that Arrivabene's current position can only be down to how much money Philip Morris put into Ferrari, and I have trouble supporting Ferrari now, despite having having done so for the last several decades, both because of him personally and what his current position implies in terms of big tobacco money and Ferrari; it was easier to ignore this when it was less overt.
 
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Off topic and one for JPSLotus:
I recall hearing that de Cesaris' dad was some Malboro big shot. Or was that just pre-internet pub talk?
 
Off topic and one for JPSLotus:
I recall hearing that de Cesaris' dad was some Malboro big shot. Or was that just pre-internet pub talk?

He was a big time importer of Marlboro in Italy, so while not a Marlboro exec per se, he was big enough to get the company backing Andrea de Cesaris. Some have said his dad was an executive, but the story always was he was an importer. That was how he got the Alfa Romeo ride in the early 80s, and even maintained seats in F1 when most would have been long gone from the sport. Eddie Jordan specifically took him on for one of the seats in the Jordan 191 in 1991 because of the Marlboro sponsorship.
 
Maybe Stoner would have left anyway once he got the Honda offer, but that is not what he says. He has said specifically on several occasions, including in his book, that he regarded Ducati as "family" and would have stayed loyal to them if they had stayed loyal to him by supporting him during his illness in 2009. Arrivabene seemed to be the one who lead the narrative back then that Stoner was malingering and/or flaky.

Stoner is obviously back with Ducati now, with those involved with Ducati in 2009 gone, and in choosing to be with them now seems to have also made the choice to be a Ducati guy rather than a Honda guy in his retirement.

I pointed out the irony of Arrivabene, a Marlboro advertising executive, denying the existence of a health problem at the time in 2009. JPS (another tobacco link) is in agreement with you that Arrivabene's current position can only be down to how much money Philip Morris put into Ferrari, and I have trouble supporting Ferrari now, despite having having done so for the last several decades, both because of him personally and what his current position implies in terms of big tobacco money and Ferrari; it was easier to ignore this when it was less overt.

This was from last May...

Tobacco company Philip Morris renewed its backing of the Ferrari F1 team over a year ago, but opted not to publicise the news.

The current deal was due to expire at the end of 2015, but Bloomberg reports that Philip Morris agreed to extend its sponsorship until the end of 2018 at a board meeting last year. Tobacco advertising is banned in Formula One and Philip Morris has not had clear Marlboro branding on the car since 2008. However, it continues to back the team and uses its association with Ferrari to promote Marlboro cigarettes in certain territories.

The links between the tobacco company and Ferrari deepened last year when former Philip Morris marketing executive Maurizio Arrivabene took over the role of team principal. Philip Morris is the only tobacco company remaining in Formula One and Sports Pro Magazine reports that it is spending somewhere in the region of $160 million a year on its deal.

Marlboro has a long history in F1 dating back to 1972 when it first sponsored BRM and Iso Marlboro. From 1974 to 1996 it had a series of sponsorship deals with McLaren before switching to a title deal with Ferrari. In 2010 the Ferrari deal came under scrutiny when Marlboro was accused of running subliminal advertising on the cars with its barcode design on the engine cover. Soon after a new Scuderia Ferrari logo appeared in its place and is still carried on the cars today.

Consider that, $160 million is being spent per year on what amounts to subliminal sponsorship. It's unreal. Arrivabene is only there because of the Marlboro money. Pretty much guarantees Marlboro a say in the team in a way that has never been seen.
 
Regardless of the obvious health implications of cigarettes, I've long had a fascination with the entire aspect of their sponsorship of motorsports to subvert the TV advertising bans for decades to be fascinating. Everything the tobacco companies did to advertise is unlike any marketing I've ever seen. The other aspect that interests me is that they shaped modern motorsports unlike any other sponsor. They brought the big money to the sports. The day Colin Chapman showed up with the Gold Leaf Tobacco sponsorship on the Lotus 49 at the 1968 Tasman Series, that was the game-changer. Colin was revolutionary in car design, but he also created the modern age of sponsorship.
 
I must admit I miss the days of Tabacco sponsorship, they had some great liveries.

Personally, I never looked at a Ferrari/Williams/Jordan and thought "Christ I need a Marlboro/Rothmans/Benson & Hedges right now!" So I don't get the whole banning of them.

It seems that energy drinks are trying to be the big sponsors at the moment, but it's funny how little 'Title Sponsors' appear these days in F1.
 
I must admit I miss the days of Tabacco sponsorship, they had some great liveries.

Personally, I never looked at a Ferrari/Williams/Jordan and thought "Christ I need a Marlboro/Rothmans/Benson & Hedges right now!" So I don't get the whole banning of them.

It seems that energy drinks are trying to be the big sponsors at the moment, but it's funny how little 'Title Sponsors' appear these days in F1.

As a petrolhead I liked the money tobacco sponsorship brought to my favourite sports as well, and the bikes and cars with the tobacco sponsor liveries were some of the best looking vehicles ever.

However, I don't really see Philip Morris as a benignly philanthropic entity tipping $160 million a year into Ferrari or however much into Ducati because they share my enthusiasm for Motorsport. They wouldn't get that past their board.

You, I gather an adult non-smoker in the UK, are not their target. They are far more interested in hooking kids in the third world on their drug.
 
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The gauloise livery in countries that had tobacco ad bans Goooooooo!!!!
 
..... car, but I lived the livery:

Prost.jpg
 
I always admired Vale's moral integrity and public stance on this declaring that he would never ride for Tobacco money...oh, hang on.
 
Regardless of the obvious health implications of cigarettes, I've long had a fascination with the entire aspect of their sponsorship of motorsports to subvert the TV advertising bans for decades to be fascinating. Everything the tobacco companies did to advertise is unlike any marketing I've ever seen. The other aspect that interests me is that they shaped modern motorsports unlike any other sponsor. They brought the big money to the sports. The day Colin Chapman showed up with the Gold Leaf Tobacco sponsorship on the Lotus 49 at the 1968 Tasman Series, that was the game-changer. Colin was revolutionary in car design, but he also created the modern age of sponsorship.

It makes sense -- all engines smoke a lot after all.
It will change when electric motors take over.
 
As a petrolhead I liked the money tobacco sponsorship brought to my favourite sports as well, and the bikes and cars with the tobacco sponsor liveries were some of the best looking vehicles ever.

However, I don't really see Philip Morris as a benignly philanthropic entity tipping $160 million a year into Ferrari or however much into Ducati because they share my enthusiasm for Motorsport. They wouldn't get that past their board.

You, I gather an adult non-smoker in the UK, are not their target. They are far more interested in hooking kids in the third world on their drug.

I'm going to mention something that you might find interesting with the 2016 Ducati livery. Unlike the prior year, they made a significant change to the livery that really underlines how incredible Marlboro has been at subliminal advertising, and how they still manage to create their logo.

While the barcode branding is gone, which to me was a hysterical bypass of the advertising ban. I wish they had kept it because of how ingenious it was. One of the hallmarks of using the barcode was that when the image became a motion blur, the arrangement of colors and the barcodes would blur in such a way you make the association with the Marlboro chevron as seen here...

marlboro_test.jpg


It's a fairly straightforward way of getting the advertising out there with people being aware of it. Ferrari since changed their team logo to include part of the Marlboro chevron in it, so while the barcode was blatant, the team logo is a less so, but still retains part of the Marlboro logo...plus you have to factor in the car's color which is generally selected for Marlboro's purposes. Ferrari's traditional red was Rosso Corsa, but it hasn't been seen on their F1 cars in many years now. They switched the color scheme when the Marlboro sponsorship changed to title sponsor in the mid-90s.

The Ducati livery has something straightforward, but then it also has something not so straightforward.

1E5TukJ.jpg


Right above the side vents over the Ducati text, is the Marlboro chevron. Albeit narrower in height than would normally be, but it's there, slightly chopped on the left. The positioning is particularly important because of what Marlboro figured out with the use of motion in creating images the eye picks up, but the mind doesn't necessarily identify overtly. The next picture is a quick screen cap to try and illustrate it. The picture isn't the best, but pull up any of the races or FP/Q sessions and you can see it fully at work. Actually the trick is you have to see it in motion.

juYdKll.jpg


When the GP16 is going around any corner and the camera is tracking it, as it gets to that position, the mix of the two side vents above the Ducati text on the fairing, and the Marlboro chevron create an illusion of the Marlboro logo itself without any subliminal trick. The vents look like the "L" and the "B" in Marlboro as seen here...

6ID9tXR.png


Even the Ducati text seems to become indecipherable, and could easily be imagined as the rest of the letters. It's an absolutely unreal effect that is created, and I give tremendous kudos to the people who thought this up because it's even more incredible than the barcode campaign. That they figured this out for the Ducati livery and not the Ferrari F1 livery is more stunning. But seriously, every race going forward when you are watching live, you will see this visual effect. If you were to take a photograph from that side-back angle, you won't see anything. I looked for photographs, the few I found close to the angle I wanted make everything look ordinary. It's all based on motion.
 
As a petrolhead I liked the money tobacco sponsorship brought to my favourite sports as well, and the bikes and cars with the tobacco sponsor liveries were some of the best looking vehicles ever.

However, I don't really see Philip Morris as a benignly philanthropic entity tipping $160 million a year into Ferrari or however much into Ducati because they share my enthusiasm for Motorsport. They wouldn't get that past their board.

You, I gather an adult non-smoker in the UK, are not their target. They are far more interested in hooking kids in the third world on their drug.

I'm going to mention something that you might find interesting with the 2016 Ducati livery. Unlike the prior year, they made a significant change to the livery that really underlines how incredible Marlboro has been at subliminal advertising, and how they still manage to create their logo.

While the barcode branding is gone, which to me was a hysterical bypass of the advertising ban. I wish they had kept it because of how ingenious it was. One of the hallmarks of using the barcode was that when the image became a motion blur, the arrangement of colors and the barcodes would blur in such a way you make the association with the Marlboro chevron as seen here...

pEu5MLH.jpg


See next posts because this ....... moderator approval .... is coming up with this post, not sure why.


It's a fairly straightforward way of getting the advertising out there with people being aware of it. Ferrari since changed their team logo to include part of the Marlboro chevron in it, so while the barcode was blatant, the team logo is a less so, but still retains part of the Marlboro logo...plus you have to factor in the car's color which is generally selected for Marlboro's purposes. Ferrari's traditional red was Rosso Corsa, but it hasn't been seen on their F1 cars in many years now. They switched the color scheme when the Marlboro sponsorship changed to title sponsor in the mid-90s.

The Ducati livery has something straightforward, but then it also has something not so straightforward.

1E5TukJ.jpg


Right above the side vents over the Ducati text, is the Marlboro chevron. Albeit narrower in height than would normally be, but it's there, slightly chopped on the left. The positioning is particularly important because of what Marlboro figured out with the use of motion in creating images the eye picks up, but the mind doesn't necessarily identify overtly. The next picture is a quick screen cap to try and illustrate it. The picture isn't the best, but pull up any of the races or FP/Q sessions and you can see it fully at work. Actually the trick is you have to see it in motion.

juYdKll.jpg


When the GP16 is going around any corner and the camera is tracking it, as it gets to that position, the mix of the two side vents above the Ducati text on the fairing, and the Marlboro chevron create an illusion of the Marlboro logo itself without any subliminal trick. The vents look like the "L" and the "B" in Marlboro as seen here...

6ID9tXR.png


Even the Ducati text seems to become indecipherable, and could easily be imagined as the rest of the letters. It's an absolutely unreal effect that is created, and I give tremendous kudos to the people who thought this up because it's even more incredible than the barcode campaign. That they figured this out for the Ducati livery and not the Ferrari F1 livery is more stunning. But seriously, every race going forward when you are watching live, you will see this visual effect. If you were to take a photograph from that side-back angle, you won't see anything. I looked for photographs, the few I found close to the angle I wanted make everything look ordinary. It's all based on motion.
 
I must admit I miss the days of Tabacco sponsorship, they had some great liveries.

Personally, I never looked at a Ferrari/Williams/Jordan and thought "Christ I need a Marlboro/Rothmans/Benson & Hedges right now!" So I don't get the whole banning of them.

It seems that energy drinks are trying to be the big sponsors at the moment, but it's funny how little 'Title Sponsors' appear these days in F1.

Not exact out of the frying pan into the fire, but close. Those energy drinks are like liquid crack. There's a fair amount of research indicating that long time use of that crap will cause irreparable damage to kidneys, adrenals and possible to the nervous system.
 
I had heard that Keshav. I myself am partial to a Monster occasionally (like once a month or so) as I like the taste but I know some who drink 2 or 3 a day.
 
I'm going to mention something that you might find interesting with the 2016 Ducati livery. Unlike the prior year, they made a significant change to the livery that really underlines how incredible Marlboro has been at subliminal advertising, and how they still manage to create their logo.

While the barcode branding is gone, which to me was a hysterical bypass of the advertising ban. I wish they had kept it because of how ingenious it was. One of the hallmarks of using the barcode was that when the image became a motion blur, the arrangement of colors and the barcodes would blur in such a way you make the association with the Marlboro chevron as seen here...

pEu5MLH.jpg


See next posts because this ....... moderator approval .... is coming up with this post, not sure why.


It's a fairly straightforward way of getting the advertising out there with people being aware of it. Ferrari since changed their team logo to include part of the Marlboro chevron in it, so while the barcode was blatant, the team logo is a less so, but still retains part of the Marlboro logo...plus you have to factor in the car's color which is generally selected for Marlboro's purposes. Ferrari's traditional red was Rosso Corsa, but it hasn't been seen on their F1 cars in many years now. They switched the color scheme when the Marlboro sponsorship changed to title sponsor in the mid-90s.

The Ducati livery has something straightforward, but then it also has something not so straightforward.

1E5TukJ.jpg


Right above the side vents over the Ducati text, is the Marlboro chevron. Albeit narrower in height than would normally be, but it's there, slightly chopped on the left. The positioning is particularly important because of what Marlboro figured out with the use of motion in creating images the eye picks up, but the mind doesn't necessarily identify overtly. The next picture is a quick screen cap to try and illustrate it. The picture isn't the best, but pull up any of the races or FP/Q sessions and you can see it fully at work. Actually the trick is you have to see it in motion.

juYdKll.jpg


When the GP16 is going around any corner and the camera is tracking it, as it gets to that position, the mix of the two side vents above the Ducati text on the fairing, and the Marlboro chevron create an illusion of the Marlboro logo itself without any subliminal trick. The vents look like the "L" and the "B" in Marlboro as seen here...

6ID9tXR.png


Even the Ducati text seems to become indecipherable, and could easily be imagined as the rest of the letters. It's an absolutely unreal effect that is created, and I give tremendous kudos to the people who thought this up because it's even more incredible than the barcode campaign. That they figured this out for the Ducati livery and not the Ferrari F1 livery is more stunning. But seriously, every race going forward when you are watching live, you will see this visual effect. If you were to take a photograph from that side-back angle, you won't see anything. I looked for photographs, the few I found close to the angle I wanted make everything look ordinary. It's all based on motion.

Youre looking at the wrong space. Seat and tail section is an exact upside down chevron.
 

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