Rossi vs. Stoner (not a troll thread, promise...)

[michaelm]

The front fairing one is far more important to what they're trying to do.

Clever they undoubtedly are. They are not doing all this for kicks.

 

[povol]

Everybody underestimated Stoner's contribution at that time. Anyway they succeeded in disrupting the redoutable Stoner-Ducati-Bridgestone package.
Look at what Honda did in succession from 2008 to 2010:

1. Taking Bridgestone away from Ducati
2. Hiring key members of the Ducati team (Suppo and two engineers)
3. Hiring Stoner himself with the entire crew.

One could say they gradually focused their aim better and better... but the aim was clear from the beginning.

Would that not be Rossi and Yamaha.

 

[Cool Blue]

Not exact out of the frying pan into the fire, but close. Those energy drinks are like liquid crack. There's a fair amount of research indicating that long time use of that crap will cause irreparable damage to kidneys, adrenals and possible to the nervous system.

There have been red bull induced crime in Aus. One guy held up a convenience store and blamed it on the red bull.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jumkie]

Personally I'm conflicted about the ban on tobacco marketing in racing. My initial gut feeling is that there should not be a ban on it. On one hand people should be held responsible for their own decisions. In the pantheon of social ills, I don't put smoking that high, certainly not to warrant a ban. I don't understand why Marlboro would continue its support except that they just have money to throw around.

I don't believe for one second GP & F1 executives give two ..... about social responsibility. Both organizations are corrupt as ..... Frankly I see alcohol a much worse and egregious effect on society. That doesn't stop GP from allowing alcohol marketing.

Rich from a guy who has posted pics having a fair share of the bubbly at race meet-ups. In my defense, no animals were harmed, except maybe some dignity.

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

 

[Keshav]

There have been red bull induced crime in Aus. One guy held up a convenience store and blamed it on the red bull.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JPSLotus]

Personally I'm conflicted about the ban on tobacco marketing in racing. My initial gut feeling is that there should not be a ban on it. On one hand people should be held responsible for their own decisions. In the pantheon of social ills, I don't put smoking that high, certainly not to warrant a ban. I don't understand why Marlboro would continue its support except that they just have money to throw around.

I don't believe for one second GP & F1 executives give two ..... about social responsibility. Both organizations are corrupt as ..... Frankly I see alcohol a much worse and egregious effect on society. That doesn't stop GP from allowing alcohol marketing.

Rich from a guy who has posted pics having a fair share of the bubbly at race meet-ups. In my defense, no animals were harmed, except maybe some dignity.

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

I've felt the same way regarding the tobacco sponsorship. I don't see the big deal if they advertise in motorsport or not. Using cigarettes/tobacco is a personal choice much like drinking alcohol is. All of the negative effects of tobacco use are out there and known in 2016. If you use it in spite of the health implications, that's on you. But the uproar over cigarettes is more of a sign of the abdication of letting people make personal decisions whether good or bad.

I smoked for about 10 years or so, and I quit because I took the view of that .... eventually does catch up the longer you use it. However, I do not mind cigarettes at all. My only regret is that there is no way to make them safe for consumption. Vaping and e-Cigs are pointless. There is no greater combo than a cup of coffee and a cigarette in the morning. In any event, I knew the dangers when I started and I quit because of them. I would never blame advertising or whatever else for a conscious choice to do something.

I've also felt the hypocrisy regarding cigarettes and alcohol is astounding, given that alcohol has done far more damage to society as a whole on the planet in the long run yet no one has any issue with it sponsoring a whole slew of things. Mind you I have nothing against alcohol either.

Phillip Morris continues to sponsor because they use it as a business-to-business advertising platform beyond their strategic Marlboro advertising. In F1 they also hold a vote on the F1 Commission which approves or rejects regulations brought to it.

Social responsibility is a joke because if the EU ever took off the tobacco advertising ban, half the GP teams would be fleeing to lobby of all of the tobacco manufacturers to try and get them to sponsor them. I say good, the money can help smaller teams immensely.

 

[Keshav]

Respectfully disagree re: harm from cigarettes. Lots of folks can drink "socially", while cigarettes are almost immediately addictive. Kids get exposed to cigarettes at an early age despite warnings - will smoke because they think they're immortal and the damage to lungs and heart don't become apparent til it's too late in most cases. And the damage is essentially irreversible.


On the others hand I've known alcoholics who lived in the gutter for years and managed to recuperate their health at a very late stage in life.

I started smoking age 10 and by 19 I already had emphysema. Tho I quit - and seemed to recover- I've been dogged by decreased lung function ever since. I drank like a fish into my late 30s and now have a perfectly healthy liver.

Have known people to get horribly hungover a few times and give up drink - easily. My experience w cigarettes is once a person's smoked for a month or so - they tend to keep smoking for decades. It's worse these days as cigarette companies have upped the ante w additives to make smokes extra addictive.

Anyone remember Rob McElnea? He was sponsored by Men Only Magazine. We need to bring .... money into MotoGP.

 

[michaelm]

I've felt the same way regarding the tobacco sponsorship. I don't see the big deal if they advertise in motorsport or not. Using cigarettes/tobacco is a personal choice much like drinking alcohol is. All of the negative effects of tobacco use are out there and known in 2016. If you use it in spite of the health implications, that's on you. But the uproar over cigarettes is more of a sign of the abdication of letting people make personal decisions whether good or bad.

I smoked for about 10 years or so, and I quit because I took the view of that .... eventually does catch up the longer you use it. However, I do not mind cigarettes at all. My only regret is that there is no way to make them safe for consumption. Vaping and e-Cigs are pointless. There is no greater combo than a cup of coffee and a cigarette in the morning. In any event, I knew the dangers when I started and I quit because of them. I would never blame advertising or whatever else for a conscious choice to do something.

I've also felt the hypocrisy regarding cigarettes and alcohol is astounding, given that alcohol has done far more damage to society as a whole on the planet in the long run yet no one has any issue with it sponsoring a whole slew of things. Mind you I have nothing against alcohol either.

Phillip Morris continues to sponsor because they use it as a business-to-business advertising platform beyond their strategic Marlboro advertising. In F1 they also hold a vote on the F1 Commission which approves or rejects regulations brought to it.

Social responsibility is a joke because if the EU ever took off the tobacco advertising ban, half the GP teams would be fleeing to lobby of all of the tobacco manufacturers to try and get them to sponsor them. I say good, the money can help smaller teams immensely.

Nicotine is pretty much the most addictive substance known to man. My old pharmacology professor was wont to say that 20% of people who use alcohol are physically addicted, 50% who use heroin, and 90% who smoke.

You sound like you may be in the 10%. My sister who smoked in her early 20s quit, and to this day can have 1 or 2 cigarettes if she feels like it and no more, but most can't do that.

I take a libertarian position on adults wanting to kill themselves, and prohibition demonstrably doesn't work for most if not all drugs, but the tobacco companies are particularly targeting kids in the 3rd world as I said. There probably is some safe level of alcohol consumption, but not of cigarettes as Keshav says. Sure there is hypocrisy over the advertising of alcohol vs cigarettes, but in Australia anyway they are not allowed to advertise alcohol on kids' shows.

Agree the GP bike racing and F1 teams would be lining up if the EU advertising ban was removed.

 

[JPSLotus]

Nicotine is pretty much the most addictive substance known to man. My old pharmacology professor was wont to say that 20% of people who use alcohol are physically addicted, 50% who use heroin, and 90% who smoke.

You sound like you may be in the 10%. My sister who smoked in her early 20s quit, and to this day can have 1 or 2 cigarettes if she feels like it and no more, but most can't do that.

I take a libertarian position on adults wanting to kill themselves, and prohibition demonstrably doesn't work for most if not all drugs, but the tobacco companies are particularly targeting kids in the 3rd world as I said. There probably is some safe level of alcohol consumption, but not of cigarettes as Keshav says. Sure there is hypocrisy over the advertising of alcohol vs cigarettes, but in Australia anyway they are not allowed to advertise alcohol on kids' shows.

Agree the GP bike racing and F1 teams would be lining up if the EU advertising ban was removed.

It's very addictive yes, but it's also about that first week. To me that will make or break any effort to quit...and I do believe that you really, really have to genuinely want to quit. I tried quitting a number of times, but I was never genuinely invested in the quitting aspect. Then one day I was, and that was the time it stuck. I've known many people who quit, and they all made it stick by having the desire. The people I knew who didn't succeed never had the right approach to it and were too quick to give in when they had cravings. It's not easy, but it is quite doable.

Yes there is safe level of alcohol consumption, but I am talking about the damage drinking and driving do...or drinking and riding for that matter. You see it week after week, lives ended/broken because of it....to say nothing of the domestic situations that are escalated because of alcohol. Yes you can recover from alcohol far better, but it also does as much damage. Also, I had a friend who died of a heart attack a couple of weeks ago. He was an alcoholic, and alcohol abuse does cause heart attacks and/or other circulatory system issues.

The tobacco companies do market at kids, but so do many food companies who are responsible for causing obesity in kids which is a greater health epidemic. Actually, many food companies are responsible for putting out food products that cause many long-term health issues, yet they are allowed to continue on. Sugar cereals aimed at kids are advertised on kids TV like nothing. It's insane. They also use many of the tactics the tobacco companies use/used. And that's just in the first world!

China has tremendous smoking rates. But the biggest manufacturer of tobacco products in China, is China Tobacco owned by the Chinese government. They sell over 150 brands and have a near monopoly on the market. It's the one place Marlboro and other western brands cannot penetrate because they are relegated to the side compared to the Chinese brands. Bloomberg Businessweek had a fantastic write-up on China Tobacco a few years back. Read this article if you ever get the chance.

The Chinese Government Is Getting Rich Selling Cigarettes - Bloomberg

 

[JPSLotus]

Respectfully disagree re: harm from cigarettes. Lots of folks can drink "socially", while cigarettes are almost immediately addictive. Kids get exposed to cigarettes at an early age despite warnings - will smoke because they think they're immortal and the damage to lungs and heart don't become apparent til it's too late in most cases. And the damage is essentially irreversible.


On the others hand I've known alcoholics who lived in the gutter for years and managed to recuperate their health at a very late stage in life.

I started smoking age 10 and by 19 I already had emphysema. Tho I quit - and seemed to recover- I've been dogged by decreased lung function ever since. I drank like a fish into my late 30s and now have a perfectly healthy liver.

Have known people to get horribly hungover a few times and give up drink - easily. My experience w cigarettes is once a person's smoked for a month or so - they tend to keep smoking for decades. It's worse these days as cigarette companies have upped the ante w additives to make smokes extra addictive.

Anyone remember Rob McElnea? He was sponsored by Men Only Magazine. We need to bring .... money into MotoGP.

You also started smoking in the early 1960s before even the surgeon general made his warning. That wouldn't come till 1964.

If you look at 1950s cigarette ads, it's easy to see how it appealed to people, or kept them smoking.

Vintage Tobacco/ Cigarette Ads of the 1950s

The ads on that site are incredible and you can see how they changed over the decades.

In spite of the problems it caused, at least you quit when you did.

 

[Jumkie]

It's very addictive yes, but it's also about that first week. To me that will make or break any effort to quit...and I do believe that you really, really have to genuinely want to quit. I tried quitting a number of times, but I was never genuinely invested in the quitting aspect. Then one day I was, and that was the time it stuck. I've known many people who quit, and they all made it stick by having the desire. The people I knew who didn't succeed never had the right approach to it and were too quick to give in when they had cravings. It's not easy, but it is quite doable.

Yes there is safe level of alcohol consumption, but I am talking about the damage drinking and driving do...or drinking and riding for that matter. You see it week after week, lives ended/broken because of it....to say nothing of the domestic situations that are escalated because of alcohol. Yes you can recover from alcohol far better, but it also does as much damage. Also, I had a friend who died of a heart attack a couple of weeks ago. He was an alcoholic, and alcohol abuse does cause heart attacks and/or other circulatory system issues.

The tobacco companies do market at kids, but so do many food companies who are responsible for causing obesity in kids which is a greater health epidemic. Actually, many food companies are responsible for putting out food products that cause many long-term health issues, yet they are allowed to continue on. Sugar cereals aimed at kids are advertised on kids TV like nothing. It's insane. They also use many of the tactics the tobacco companies use/used. And that's just in the first world!

China has tremendous smoking rates. But the biggest manufacturer of tobacco products in China, is China Tobacco owned by the Chinese government. They sell over 150 brands and have a near monopoly on the market. It's the one place Marlboro and other western brands cannot penetrate because they are relegated to the side compared to the Chinese brands. Bloomberg Businessweek had a fantastic write-up on China Tobacco a few years back. Read this article if you ever get the chance.

The Chinese Government Is Getting Rich Selling Cigarettes - Bloomberg

Excellent post.

The .... food conglomerates are allowed to put in kid's food/people's food is criminal. Sugar is the silent killer. I'd honestly say it's the worst .... we eat. Responsible for a plethora of ills. You want to talk about "addictive" ....? Sugar beats them all hands down!

 

[michaelm]

Excellent post.

The .... food conglomerates are allowed to put in kid's food/people's food is criminal. Sugar is the silent killer. I'd honestly say it's the worst .... we eat. Responsible for a plethora of ills. You want to talk about "addictive" ....? Sugar beats them all hands down!

Sure, obesity is a major health problem and traditional Macdonald's is not much different than the tobacco companies as a purveyor of poisons.

As I said though, there is a safe level of consumption of alcohol and even hamburgers, whereas there is none for cigarettes and the usual level of consumption of cigarettes is quite a high one given how pretty well uniquely addictive they are. Anecdotally at least it also doesn't take many to get hooked, and the sub teen kids smoking in the third world is particularly abhorrent as far as I am concerned.

If you have spent 35 years as I have seeing patients who have been smokers slowly choking to death with emphysema, dying of numerous cancers associated with smoking, or having premature vascular disease sometimes leading to such things as leg amputations it perhaps gives you a certain perspective. Even in my own family my grandfather who smoked a packet of tobacco a day had a massive stroke at age 70 and was densely hemiplegic for the remaining 9 years of his life, while many of his brothers and sisters who didn't smoke lived healthy active lives into their mid 90s.

 

[Keshav]

It's very addictive yes, but it's also about that first week. To me that will make or break any effort to quit...and I do believe that you really, really have to genuinely want to quit. I tried quitting a number of times, but I was never genuinely invested in the quitting aspect. Then one day I was, and that was the time it stuck. I've known many people who quit, and they all made it stick by having the desire. The people I knew who didn't succeed never had the right approach to it and were too quick to give in when they had cravings. It's not easy, but it is quite doable.

Yes there is safe level of alcohol consumption, but I am talking about the damage drinking and driving do...or drinking and riding for that matter. You see it week after week, lives ended/broken because of it....to say nothing of the domestic situations that are escalated because of alcohol. Yes you can recover from alcohol far better, but it also does as much damage. Also, I had a friend who died of a heart attack a couple of weeks ago. He was an alcoholic, and alcohol abuse does cause heart attacks and/or other circulatory system issues.

The tobacco companies do market at kids, but so do many food companies who are responsible for causing obesity in kids which is a greater health epidemic. Actually, many food companies are responsible for putting out food products that cause many long-term health issues, yet they are allowed to continue on. Sugar cereals aimed at kids are advertised on kids TV like nothing. It's insane. They also use many of the tactics the tobacco companies use/used. And that's just in the first world!

China has tremendous smoking rates. But the biggest manufacturer of tobacco products in China, is China Tobacco owned by the Chinese government. They sell over 150 brands and have a near monopoly on the market. It's the one place Marlboro and other western brands cannot penetrate because they are relegated to the side compared to the Chinese brands. Bloomberg Businessweek had a fantastic write-up on China Tobacco a few years back. Read this article if you ever get the chance.

The Chinese Government Is Getting Rich Selling Cigarettes - Bloomberg

Agree. Totally insidious. Every time I walk the aisles of the local supermarket and see incredibly overweight people - pre-teens to octogenarians looking horribly unhealthy loading up the conveyor belt at the cashier station with cases of soda, boxes of donuts, family-size boxes of chocolate marshmallow breakfast cereals and cans of Spagettios I really shudder.

 

[Jumkie]

Sure, obesity is a major health problem and traditional Macdonald's is not much different than the tobacco companies as a purveyor of poisons.

As I said though, there is a safe level of consumption of alcohol and even hamburgers, whereas there is none for cigarettes and the usual level of consumption of cigarettes is quite a high one given how pretty well uniquely addictive they are. Anecdotally at least it also doesn't take many to get hooked, and the sub teen kids smoking in the third world is particularly abhorrent as far as I am concerned.

If you have spent 35 years as I have seeing patients who have been smokers slowly choking to death with emphysema, dying of numerous cancers associated with smoking, or having premature vascular disease sometimes leading to such things as leg amputations it perhaps gives you a certain perspective. Even in my own family my grandfather who smoked a packet of tobacco a day had a massive stroke at age 70 and was densely hemiplegic for the remaining 9 years of his life, while many of his brothers and sisters who didn't smoke lived healthy active lives into their mid 90s.

Mike, thanks for your insight. Smoking and alcohol definitely leave a greater impression. But as I said, it's the subtle crap we eat in processed food, made palatable and addictive with sugar that reaches a far greater and less aware mass of people. For the most part we all get sparking a sig or dropping a shot of tekilla isn't good for us. But when a kid gets a chocolate milk for the school lunch fortified with sugar you're making a life long addict to it. Over a lifetime, and given the sheer numbers of people consuming crap, I'm sure it overtakes all the smokers and alcoholics combined. Sure, driving while donuts may not kill innocent people, but then again what fault do 8 year old kids have becoming life long addicts to .... food because these fuckers put on the cereal box a rainbow tiger?

Do you ever watch TED talks? I've see a few, great educational stuff. I've come across a few that swear sugar in the quantities that it's infuse in our daily western diet is linked to all manner of disease. Not to mention the cost in learning disabilities.

 

[michaelm]

Mike, thanks for your insight. Smoking and alcohol definitely leave a greater impression. But as I said, it's the subtle crap we eat in processed food, made palatable and addictive with sugar that reaches a far greater and less aware mass of people. For the most part we all get sparking a sig or dropping a shot of tekilla isn't good for us. But when a kid gets a chocolate milk for the school lunch fortified with sugar you're making a life long addict to it. Over a lifetime, and given the sheer numbers of people consuming crap, I'm sure it overtakes all the smokers and alcoholics combined. Sure, driving while donuts may not kill innocent people, but then again what fault do 8 year old kids have becoming life long addicts to .... food because these fuckers put on the cereal box a rainbow tiger?

Do you ever watch TED talks? I've see a few, great educational stuff. I've come across a few that swear sugar in the quantities that it's infuse in our daily western diet is linked to all manner of disease. Not to mention the cost in learning disabilities.

I don't think doctors were or are well educated in regard to diet, but TV programmes and material in the lay press jibe with my medical knowledge and suggest sucrose in particular is not really meant to be a staple foodstuff for human beings, and was mainly in prehistoric times available seasonally when fruit was available etc. I believe straight glucose is both better digested and not as prone to being craved, while sucrose because of the fructose is metabolised to fat, and particularly in combination with fat does not result in satiety with any rapidity.

 

[Jumkie]

Are you not entertained!? Only Powerslide folks. You'll get the latest on racing, diet, subliminal marketing, soccer, lifestyle clubs, and kitchen cabinets. What more do you guys want FFS?

I love this place.

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

 

[#22]

It's very addictive yes, but it's also about that first week. To me that will make or break any effort to quit...and I do believe that you really, really have to genuinely want to quit.

Oh totally. A friend of mine worked in a rehab centre for a while, and she admitted to me that they do sod all with addicts there because they can't help them UNTIL they overdose, then decide they want to quit. You can't do jack .... with them until they want to.

Excellent post.

The .... food conglomerates are allowed to put in kid's food/people's food is criminal. Sugar is the silent killer. I'd honestly say it's the worst .... we eat. Responsible for a plethora of ills. You want to talk about "addictive" ....? Sugar beats them all hands down!

Agree. Totally insidious. Every time I walk the aisles of the local supermarket and see incredibly overweight people - pre-teens to octogenarians looking horribly unhealthy loading up the conveyor belt at the cashier station with cases of soda, boxes of donuts, family-size boxes of chocolate marshmallow breakfast cereals and cans of Spagettios I really shudder.

Agreed. I admit I have a sweet tooth (I love chocolate) but it's everything in moderation. I try and watch my sugar intake now and it is amazing that .... you think is relatively healthy is LOADED with the stuff. And some things you expect would be horiffic aren't that bad. One thing I'm going to miss here when we move to the US is the food labels. Over here all foods have to have a traffic light system showing the amounts of fat, sugar etc, like this:

Obviously red is bad, green is good and it is a great way of quickly referencing foods and controlling your intakes.

I'm lucky in that I'm healthy and slim. Of course because as a kid I stuffed with junk food (but was hyperactive 98% of the time thus burning it off on the farm, no playstation gaming here) mum still says I could eat anything and not gain weight. That isn't true, I maintain a relatively active lifestyle and work out multiple times a week. It's going to be interesting for me adapting in the US because from what I gather, food isn't as wholesome there...I mean what the .... is high fructose corn syrup that's in everything?!

My wife is a health freak though, so we shall be where possible avoiding the bad crap. Talking of crap, your guys chocolate....

 

[Arrabbiata1]

Are you not entertained!? Only Powerslide folks. You'll get the latest on racing, diet, subliminal marketing, soccer, lifestyle clubs, and kitchen cabinets. What more do you guys want FFS?

You mean we discuss bike racing here too? I thought that solely consisted of convoluted and circuitous conversations about Valentino Rossi. Ah, hang on..

Anyone remember Rob McElnea? He was sponsored by Men Only Magazine. We need to bring .... money into MotoGP.

Of course I remember Rob Mac. I greatly miss his involvement and mentorship in the BSB paddock and in particular the tireless work he put in to the excellent Yamaha R6 Cup which was the springboard for a great many careers. Perhaps this was on his recommendation? - .... star backs R6 Cup | MCN

There was another rider in the eighties that was sponsored by a jiz mag, can't recall who. Most recently though, Hugo Payen in the Dakar has a Russian .... star adorning his fairing...



Don't forget LCR got randy too for a time...



Paris Hilton was simply kitsch but we shouldn't overlook Jums recent recollections about Dolly Buster which I'd completely forgotten about.

 

[RCV600RR]

Did the Melandri's and Gibernau's of the world get SNS's . They were not on the factory team and the reports through the years were for factory riders only.

Yes.

 

[Keshav]

Oh totally. A friend of mine worked in a rehab centre for a while, and she admitted to me that they do sod all with addicts there because they can't help them UNTIL they overdose, then decide they want to quit. You can't do jack .... with them until they want to.


Agreed. I admit I have a sweet tooth (I love chocolate) but it's everything in moderation. I try and watch my sugar intake now and it is amazing that .... you think is relatively healthy is LOADED with the stuff. And some things you expect would be horiffic aren't that bad. One thing I'm going to miss here when we move to the US is the food labels. Over here all foods have to have a traffic light system showing the amounts of fat, sugar etc, like this:

Obviously red is bad, green is good and it is a great way of quickly referencing foods and controlling your intakes.

I'm lucky in that I'm healthy and slim. Of course because as a kid I stuffed with junk food (but was hyperactive 98% of the time thus burning it off on the farm, no playstation gaming here) mum still says I could eat anything and not gain weight. That isn't true, I maintain a relatively active lifestyle and work out multiple times a week. It's going to be interesting for me adapting in the US because from what I gather, food isn't as wholesome there...I mean what the .... is high fructose corn syrup that's in everything?!

My wife is a health freak though, so we shall be where possible avoiding the bad crap. Talking of crap, your guys chocolate....

Those are the lucky ones. I lived on the Lower East Side more than 40 years - a place that's been Heroin Central as long as I can remember and I've played in lots of not-so-memorable bands and known band-mates that really WANTED to get clean, who'd OD'd multiple times but couldn't because they were so consumed by their personal demons. Ironically - some I've known who are now clean 20 or 30 years from heroin, still can't beat the cigarette habit. Given how there's so much public awareness about the link between cigarettes and heart disease, lung cancer etc. I find it depressing to see kids in their teens and twenties walking around smoking, but then most of us at that age, don't think the rules apply to us and that bad .... only happens to "the other guy".

Americans in big cities have been gaining in awareness of healthy eating habits over the last 20 years. Used to be only crazy hippies who worked in health food stores worried about that kind of thing. The health food and nutritional supplement businesses here are a zillion dollar industry. Now freakin' Walmart is trying to corner the organic food market. It's not hard to eat healthy here. In the mid-west and rural places some segments of the population food quality awareness is creeping in slowly. Mostly it's people of means that are eating healthier. Blue collar types and minimum wage earners seem to be either immune to all the available info about healthier eating or not financially able to buy better quality produce. On the East Coast we have giant supermarkets that sell great food, called Whole Foods - and they are referred to frequently as "Whole Paycheck". So don't worry - you'll be able to find good food here, tho you can forget about having any bubble and squeak.