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Rossi Hate.

Ummm, I was agreeing with Mike, not arguing, go rattle his cage.


:fishing1:
Mike made no such argument, he said maybe Rossi 'thought' (which I doubt and highly disagree) that Marc would continue off the track, hence avoiding contact, RCV600RR reasoned perhaps Marc bears some blame (more than 0.0%) because he didn't evade Rossi's attack enough. Big difference. Either way, I disagree with both potential scenarios, and note, neither exonerate Rossi’s ultimate responsibility; however having read Mike's extensive opinions on this topic, I read his take as 'if' we were going to give Rossi the benefit of the doubt that he didn’t intend Marc to crash. Notwithstanding, I think Rossi looking over deliberately several times, and the kick out with his leg luckily actuating the brake lever (a piece of telemetry that was ultimately buried by Honda at Dorna's behest, don't go asking for a link of admission by an official press release) eliminates and benefit if doubt regard what Rossi intended to happen to Marc.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
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We're obviously rehashing the entire year's of discussion here after Sepang 2015, I remember this, and he should have been banned no doubt. However, MotoGP is the pinnacle of the sport to set the absolute standard, to be contrasted to lower levels across the spectrum of competition. There's also another incident that comes to mind, Kanan Sofoglu (I think agains Sheridan Morias or somebody) headbutt during race. Race Direction should have been fired by the FIM, the riders stripped of their license, and fine imposed. The fact they didn’t speaks volumes about the pretension of safety towards the sport.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
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There is still no valid argument as to why Rossi should've not been black flagged. His reasoning to race direction that he wanted to run Marquez off the track so he could make a get away should've resulted in an instance black flag.

I stated it at the time and will state again ............ plenty of reasons not to black flag but few reasons (read none) that after race investigations and penalty/s were not applied (and 3 points is debatable as to penalty being sufficient)

As for your comment regarding the statement of Rossi, well that was not said until after the race thus he cannot have been black flagged, but that should have been a red flag to stewards as to intent.
 
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Canepa was charged with assault out of that although not sure of the outcome.

He was unaware that the track cameras caught the incident (was a trackday or similar)

IMO here, damning evidence deserves a damning penalty
 
If he did that's the jammiest shot of all time.
That thing that riders actuate with one finger? All VR needed was to luckily make contact with Marc's hand, not necessarily the brake lever itself.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
That thing that riders actuate with one finger? All VR needed was to luckily make contact with Marc's hand, not necessarily the brake lever itself.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

He needed to avoid the guard as well Jums (being totally fair) as the brake lever had a small guard that is designed to protect accidental application (think that which flipped Gibernau in 2006).

Still, and I will say now that the guard is small and I have personally seen brakes applied accidentally in close quarter racing - it is an attempt to stop nit a fool proof method
 
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It is certainly not in MM's mindset to back down/back off from a challenge, and hence quite likely not in his mindset that anyone would proceed on the assumption that he would do so.
Assuming he evaluated every possible detail in that miniscule moment everything we've analyzed for years about the split second from being upright to suddenly being on the deck. Because of course, his unwillingness or mindset was such that he capriciously acted resulting in him crashing on his motorcycle. I could walk up to any of you posting here a sucker punch you guys on tape, then we could rewind it and play it in 1/20th the speed and analyze how none of you were smart enough to avoid getting sucker punched.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
I got the impression he kicked at Marquezs foot on the rear brake ( so easy but imbecilic thing to do ) but knocked Marqs hand with his knee slider.

Ban for life from me.
 
I suck at posting pictures but can anyone post a over head picture of that corner? Let me say that if you don't know the corner then you don't belong in this argument. Marc had to lean in when he did. If someone posts a picture and you reference where the outside curb ends in the picture and the slow-mo you will see marc had no choice. Then it appears to me Rossi pushed off with his knee hitting Marcs brake, hand, or turned the bars. Because of Rossis angle his knee came up and under the guard.
 
I suck at posting pictures but can anyone post a over head picture of that corner? Let me say that if you don't know the corner then you don't belong in this argument. Marc had to lean in when he did. If someone posts a picture and you reference where the outside curb ends in the picture and the slow-mo you will see marc had no choice. Then it appears to me Rossi pushed off with his knee hitting Marcs brake, hand, or turned the bars. Because of Rossis angle his knee came up and under the guard.

Dorna pulled the overhead real fast and Hondas own telemetry, as well as negotiated a "shutup" ( Nakamoto was pretty pissed ).

When you look at it as well dorna being paramount concerned with money from boppers ( boppers fill coffers ), Evidence would have given an oportunity to any countries law enforcement agency to charge rossi with assault or better. Look at the Canepa incident.

I bet it was a fairly negotiated thing when valncia came up in 2015. ;)
 
Dorna pulled the overhead real fast and Hondas own telemetry, as well as negotiated a "shutup" ( Nakamoto was pretty pissed ).

When you look at it as well dorna being paramount concerned with money from boppers ( boppers fill coffers ), Evidence would have given an oportunity to any countries law enforcement agency to charge rossi with assault or better. Look at the Canepa incident.

I bet it was a fairly negotiated thing when valncia came up in 2015. ;)

They way they pulled the press conference for valencia was very telling on who dorna aligned with. More than that it showed they were trying to hide something.
 
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I stated it at the time and will state again ............ plenty of reasons not to black flag...
Respectful, that's unreasonable buddy.

Rossi exemplified an immediate, clear and present danger to himself and others on the track confirmed within the moments after we realized he had assaulted a fellow competitor. There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason to allow such a person in that state of mind, capable of anything demonstrated by his actions, to continue circulating. Your argument is, there's a guy who just used a vehicle as a weapon, let's just see how this pans out. No, the only appropriate action was to immediately remove him from the environment where he could cause harm as a safety precaution. There are many examples in life that this has been done, sometimes it's been an overreaction, but the times its been an under-reaction the consequences have been irreparable. It's absurd to think this was a err on the side of-- let's just see what happens moment, a mad man circulating at these speeds that just exhibited a mental breakdown never seen before at this level, and based on an imaginary trigger.

Frankly Gaz, despite it not seeming like it, I'm over the actual incident, because it's just another manifestation that the powerful and influential operate above and outside of established laws and norms! In fact, this is one with trivial and unimportant ramifications. It's after all entertainment masked as a sport. In our real lives there are entities and individuals that get away with similar stuff but with dire consequence, loss of life, possessions, reputations, physical and worse emotional suffering. The particulars of this specific event no long bothers me as much as this, it's the illogical positions of debate that still compel me to argue. I'll read something like this or like what others have said on the topic and I think, wait, that's unreasonable and I pursue the argument for the sake of debate not necessarily because of any affect on the actual event. Fact is all of our logical arguments meant .... all to the eventual outcome as it played out, did it? Rossi won the debate on collective 'wisdom' of popularity. He was applauded the very next race in a described 'lap of honor', that's all we need to know about our side of the debate. So any of us with this unpopular perspective are the losers, as unbelievable as that may be when you consider the facts of the incident. It's futile, this really is the ultimate lesson!

Mdub below summarizes very well what I've thought on the subject minus the endless diatribe. Not necessarily that there's some smoking gun information out there that's been buried, but rather that the powers in place decisively took action in every possible detail in favor of Rossi and their own image at the expense of truth, transparency, safety, and fairness.


They way they pulled the press conference for valencia was very telling on who dorna aligned with. More than that it showed they were trying to hide something.



If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
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Mike made no such argument, he said maybe Rossi 'thought' (which I doubt and highly disagree) that Marc would continue off the track, hence avoiding contact, RCV600RR reasoned perhaps Marc bears some blame (more than 0.0%) because he didn't evade Rossi's attack enough. Big difference. Either way, I disagree with both potential scenarios, and note, neither exonerate Rossi’s ultimate responsibility; however having read Mike's extensive opinions on this topic, I read his take as 'if' we were going to give Rossi the benefit of the doubt that he didn’t intend Marc to crash. Notwithstanding, I think Rossi looking over deliberately several times, and the kick out with his leg luckily actuating the brake lever (a piece of telemetry that was ultimately buried by Honda at Dorna's behest, don't go asking for a link of admission by an official press release) eliminates and benefit if doubt regard what Rossi intended to happen to Marc.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
It is just my opinion, but a considered one, and a result of observing and analysing the Sepang 2015 incident as well as Jerez 2005 and LS 2008, and what Stoner actually said post LS 2008. Stoner said it would have been in his interests to crash into Rossi rather than go off track and put his bike down as he eventually did which effectively cost him the race and perhaps the championship, but this was not something he could comtemplate doing. My point which I believe was also Stoner's is that Rossi has the attitude that the rules are different for him which is rather to his advantage, and he has every reason to be of that belief as you have very frequently argued. Of course MM did nothing except attempt to negotiate the corner in standard fashion, exactly what he should have done, and indeed may just in the moment not have believed what Rossi was actually doing.

Maybe Rossi's brain could have melted to the degree that he did deliberately try to take MM out, but if it was actually a plan by him it was an egregiously stupid plan, because it risked him going down as well. Similarly MM didn't go out/wasn't sent out by his idiotic and arrogant crew to take Willairot out, an incident which led to a career threatening injury/vision problem for MM among other consequences, but they and he were very definitely careless of the danger to others. I do think MM has become less careless of others with maturity btw.
 
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I suck at posting pictures but can anyone post a over head picture of that corner? Let me say that if you don't know the corner then you don't belong in this argument. Marc had to lean in when he did. If someone posts a picture and you reference where the outside curb ends in the picture and the slow-mo you will see marc had no choice. Then it appears to me Rossi pushed off with his knee hitting Marcs brake, hand, or turned the bars. Because of Rossis angle his knee came up and under the guard.

Ask, and ye shall receive - https://www.google.com.au/imgres?im...M7WAhUIqJQKHVBRBcoQMwhXKCYwJg&iact=mrc&uact=8
 
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Dirty play in rugby league deliberately taking out an opposing player is a send off. As it should be. A player with such mindset has to be removed from the game. MotoGP is no different. Instant black flag, keep the other riders safe from the dirty rider who was out of control. This afterall is RD's most important objective for which they completely failed.
 
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Respectful, that's unreasonable buddy.

Rossi exemplified an immediate, clear and present danger to himself and others on the track confirmed within the moments after we realized he had assaulted a fellow competitor. There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason to allow such a person in that state of mind, capable of anything demonstrated by his actions, to continue circulating. Your argument is, there's a guy who just used a vehicle as a weapon, let's just see how this pans out. No, the only appropriate action was to immediately remove him from the environment where he could cause harm as a safety precaution. There are many examples in life that this has been done, sometimes it's been an overreaction, but the times its been an under-reaction the consequences have been irreparable. It's absurd to think this was a err on the side of-- let's just see what happens moment, a mad man circulating at these speeds that just exhibited a mental breakdown never seen before at this level, and based on an imaginary trigger.

Frankly Gaz, despite it not seeming like it, I'm over the actual incident, because it's just another manifestation that the powerful and influential operate above and outside of established laws and norms! In fact, this is one with trivial and unimportant ramifications. It's after all entertainment masked as a sport. In our real lives there are entities and individuals that get away with similar stuff but with dire consequence, loss of life, possessions, reputations, physical and worse emotional suffering. The particulars of this specific event no long bothers me as much as this, it's the illogical positions of debate that still compel me to argue. I'll read something like this or like what others have said on the topic and I think, wait, that's unreasonable and I pursue the argument for the sake of debate not necessarily because of any affect on the actual event. Fact is all of our logical arguments meant .... all to the eventual outcome as it played out, did it? Rossi won the debate on collective 'wisdom' of popularity. He was applauded the very next race in a described 'lap of honor', that's all we need to know about our side of the debate. So any of us with this unpopular perspective are the losers, as unbelievable as that may be when you consider the facts of the incident. It's futile, this really is the ultimate lesson!

Mdub below summarizes very well what I've thought on the subject minus the endless diatribe. Not necessarily that there's some smoking gun information out there that's been buried, but rather that the powers in place decisively took action in every possible detail in favor of Rossi and their own image at the expense of truth, transparency, safety, and fairness.


Jums, to keep simplified I use my officials experience to decide that the black flag was not warranted at the time with a full, frank and open review to occur post race when all details telemetry data as well as camera angles would have been available (said at the time and maintained today that the video only forms part of the story).

To put into perspective, there has not been a rider in my memory black flagged and immediate DQ for an on track incident (as opposed to ignoring penalty boards - Biaggi) so that aspect needs to be used when an issue is of sufficient nature and fully/totally identifiable of fault.

IMO only here but the telemetry was critical and I personally believe would have shown the true nature of the issue but due to those involved it was always only a sideline and distraction.

As for the rest, well I have tried to stay out of it but feel that groundhog day will continue until such time as DORNA fully apologise and provide recompence by declaring a tenth title but will say, that this place remains tame by comparison to others.
 
Dirty play in rugby league deliberately taking out an opposing player is a send off. As it should be. A player with such mindset has to be removed from the game. MotoGP is no different. Instant black flag, keep the other riders safe from the dirty rider who was out of control. This afterall is RD's most important objective for which they completely failed.

Not today it isn't as the refs are to gutless due to the camera work

They rather place on report and pass the responsibility over to another to make the decision .......... which is what happened
 
Respectful, that's unreasonable buddy.

Rossi exemplified an immediate, clear and present danger to himself and others on the track confirmed within the moments after we realized he had assaulted a fellow competitor. There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason to allow such a person in that state of mind, capable of anything demonstrated by his actions, to continue circulating. Your argument is, there's a guy who just used a vehicle as a weapon, let's just see how this pans out. No, the only appropriate action was to immediately remove him from the environment where he could cause harm as a safety precaution. There are many examples in life that this has been done, sometimes it's been an overreaction, but the times its been an under-reaction the consequences have been irreparable. It's absurd to think this was a err on the side of-- let's just see what happens moment, a mad man circulating at these speeds that just exhibited a mental breakdown never seen before at this level, and based on an imaginary trigger.

Frankly Gaz, despite it not seeming like it, I'm over the actual incident, because it's just another manifestation that the powerful and influential operate above and outside of established laws and norms! In fact, this is one with trivial and unimportant ramifications. It's after all entertainment masked as a sport. In our real lives there are entities and individuals that get away with similar stuff but with dire consequence, loss of life, possessions, reputations, physical and worse emotional suffering. The particulars of this specific event no long bothers me as much as this, it's the illogical positions of debate that still compel me to argue. I'll read something like this or like what others have said on the topic and I think, wait, that's unreasonable and I pursue the argument for the sake of debate not necessarily because of any affect on the actual event. Fact is all of our logical arguments meant .... all to the eventual outcome as it played out, did it? Rossi won the debate on collective 'wisdom' of popularity. He was applauded the very next race in a described 'lap of honor', that's all we need to know about our side of the debate. So any of us with this unpopular perspective are the losers, as unbelievable as that may be when you consider the facts of the incident. It's futile, this really is the ultimate lesson!

Mdub below summarizes very well what I've thought on the subject minus the endless diatribe. Not necessarily that there's some smoking gun information out there that's been buried, but rather that the powers in place decisively took action in every possible detail in favor of Rossi and their own image at the expense of truth, transparency, safety, and fairness.






If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

If they didn’t black flag Sofoglu in that WSS race you and I well remember no-one is ever going to be black-flagged for dangerous riding, least of all Rossi
 
What was worse, Marquez PI 2013 or Rossi Sepang 2015?

I can actually see the Marquez/Honda argument of technically they hadn't started the lap on the old bike due to where their pits were located