Rossi does not attend award presentation

Gaz · Nov 13, 2015

Mr Squiggle said:
Had the RZ250 and always lusted after the Yam RZ500 and the Zook RG500...Evil beasts that they were!

Have been lucky enough to (try) to ride an RG500 and it was a light switch, scared the sh*t out of me it was so insane, and this was done at low speed on the Old Pacific Highway so when I say low, I mean very low.

As for the RZ500, I prefer it but that is all about the looks and the yamaha red/white scheme ......... Gorgeous machine

Last one I saw for sale was 20k for one with 11000kms but I did see a new in the crate one last year for 40k

Mick D · Nov 13, 2015

bh84 said:
This is from last year, riding the old man's 83 RZ around Mosport. Unfortunately in my rush to get to the track I grabbed the wrong Shoei bag:jester:

hey bh, what is the state of mosport tarmac these days.. i'v been away for 10+ years?

bh84 · Nov 14, 2015

Mick D said:
hey bh, what is the state of mosport tarmac these days.. i'v been away for 10+ years?

Its been resurfaced, smooth as butter, Moss corner is still really tricky!

Bern1 · Nov 14, 2015

I remember the first time I remember seeing Rossi, a 16 year old in 125. Forgot which race it was but he was leading....then pretended to have a problem with the clutch. Dropped 4 or 5 places and then came back to win, smirking like he does now, but he looked like he was having more fun than he does now.
I became a Rossi fan and remained one for many years, including being at Mugello in 2004 when he led the restart with slicks on a wet track. Hats off.

However, at some point the "unconventional" lines became intimidating "move over or I'll move you off the track" lines. Game over, he's no longer one of the greats for me.

Lawson never had to do any of that.

Hats off now to Lorenzo, classic style. Not flawless, but beautiful to watch.

Cool Blue · Nov 14, 2015

Bern1 said:
Hats off now to Lorenzo, classic style. Not flawless, but beautiful to watch.

What's your analysis? It would be refreshing to see some discussion about actual motorcycle riding. You sound like you know your stuff...

Do you think it helps him not having to worry about all those pesky throttle adjustments?

Bern1 · Nov 15, 2015

I admire Lorenzo's no frills economical use of the pure physics of movement and traction on a modern motorcycle. (My own experience is limited to racing an antiquated 500 single for a few years.) Minimal sliding, super smooth, no flailing inside leg on the entrance to a corner, super clean lines, supreme economy, brave moves that work without jeopardizing other riders, stuff like that.

Not without flaws....he can use up too much tire on a full tank and is still not at his best when it rains....all in all though, best rider in my opinion since Lawson, my all time favorite...

Bern1 · Nov 15, 2015

if I am going to talk about Lorenzo and Lawson, I must mention Stoner as well though.
Watching him drift the Honda through the bumps in Turn 6 at Laguna a couple of years ago was something else...nobody else was doing that.

Would have loved to watch him go up against Marquez!

Jumkie · Nov 15, 2015

Bern1 said:
I admire Lorenzo's no frills economical use of the pure physics of movement and traction on a modern motorcycle.

When I watched his Valencia pole lap (which i have rewatched a few times now) I swear I didn't think he was going fast had it not been for the red sector indicators. It is quite amazing.

Mr Squiggle · Nov 15, 2015

Jumkie said:
When I watched his Valencia pole lap (which i have rewatched a few times now) I swear I didn't think he was going fast had it not been for the red sector indicators. It is quite amazing.

He doesn't look fast but he sure as .... is....

Dr No · Nov 16, 2015

Mr Squiggle said:
He doesn't look fast but he sure as .... is....

There was a race in 2014. I can't for the life of me remember which one...late in the season? But the camera angles were rider level and from the rear (steady...) on corner entry for several corners. Marquez was trailing JL and looked like he was going to stuff it up the inside (steady....) every corner. The wide corner entry sweeping lines from JL looked like he was opening the door every time. They were something to behold and kept Marquez completely at bay. I remembered that in the light of Valencia and PI (yes I know he passed J, but on last lap).
Sorry to.be so vague, but it was a sterling display of the differing riding styles..

libby · Nov 16, 2015

Mr Squiggle said:
He doesn't look fast but he sure as .... is....

...just awesome...:fish:

Bern1 · Nov 16, 2015

Yes, though I know nothing about the modern electronics used on these bikes, the smoothest guy is still going to be the fastest if everybody is at the limit.

When Kenny Roberts first slid the rear wheel around the corner to square it off and gas it down the next straight, it worked....back then. Looked good too. (Some say Saarinen did it first....)

Today, it still looks good but it's no longer the fastest way around, at least not for the whole race. Actually, it's been that way for quite some time. McCoy used to slither around in a most entertaining way but I can't remember him getting many good results. Nick might have been the last guy to use that technique and win.

Marquez still does it and wins, but we've seen him fall down a lot too. I will bet that he gets smoother out of necessity.

I remember watching F1 in the 80's and early 90's: Prost or Senna would sign a pole or a fastest lap and look slow doing it.

Arrabbiata1 · Nov 16, 2015

Bern1 said:
Yes, though I know nothing about the modern electronics used on these bikes, the smoothest guy is still going to be the fastest if everybody is at the limit.

When Kenny Roberts first slid the rear wheel around the corner to square it off and gas it down the next straight, it worked....back then. Looked good too. (Some say Saarinen did it first....)

Today, it still looks good but it's no longer the fastest way around, at least not for the whole race. Actually, it's been that way for quite some time. McCoy used to slither around in a most entertaining way but I can't remember him getting many good results. Nick might have been the last guy to use that technique and win.

Marquez still does it and wins, but we've seen him fall down a lot too. I will bet that he gets smoother out of necessity.

I remember watching F1 in the 80's and early 90's: Prost or Senna would sign a pole or a fastest lap and look slow doing it.

Marquez does indeed square the corner off and the Honda appears to like being ridden that way prompting even Pedrosa to adapt his style. The 990s were perfect for this and suited Nicky's style, but it is not comparable to McCoy who was an extraordinary talent.

You don't remember the lab rat 'getting good results' because the tyre that he requested was a one off from Michelin which few others had the talent to ride. Unlike the preferential treatment that the 'Doctored' later received this rubber was available to all, I would argue that McCoy was exploiting a Michelin on the 16.5 rim which was extremely difficult to use. Everyone followed suit because they assumed that simply reverting to the narrower rear was the key to his recent success. McCoy's special compound got sidelined in the process and he was forced to opt for the more amenable forgiving choices of tyre demanded by the rest of the paddock which negated much of the advantage that he had worked hard to perfect. Arguably Valentino was perhaps the only rider gifted enough to capitalise on the McCpy tyre. Garry did this on Clifford's WCM customer YZR - which had the same entire annual budget as an HRC rider would consume in tear offs alone.

McCoy's style was totally different to the 'tail gunning' revolution of the American dirt trackers. It wasn't just ad-hoc smoking the rear as you make it sound, Like Stoner, he would light up the rear and powerslide and almost perfect arc around a constant radius turn. If done smoothly it could actually enhance a lap time.

In spite of the advent of slipper clutches and electronic aids, we still see riders back it in - particularly in Superbike and Moto2, but as I have been at pains to point out in the past, that is something altogether different.

Mr Squiggle · Nov 16, 2015

Dr No said:
There was a race in 2014. I can't for the life of me remember which one...late in the season? But the camera angles were rider level and from the rear (steady...) on corner entry for several corners. Marquez was trailing JL and looked like he was going to stuff it up the inside (steady....) every corner. The wide corner entry sweeping lines from JL looked like he was opening the door every time. They were something to behold and kept Marquez completely at bay. I remembered that in the light of Valencia and PI (yes I know he passed J, but on last lap).
Sorry to.be so vague, but it was a sterling display of the differing riding styles..

He has a unique style that's difficult to describe (especially the way he tucks in his legs and elbows) and his mid corner speed is incredible...I cant think of another rider to compare his riding technique with tbh.

Mr Squiggle · Nov 16, 2015

Arrabbiata1 said:
Marquez does indeed square the corner off and the Honda appears to like being ridden that way prompting even Pedrosa to adapt his style. The 990s were perfect for this and suited Nicky's style, but it is not comparable to McCoy who was an extraordinary talent.

You don't remember the lab rat 'getting good results' because the tyre that he requested was a one off from Michelin which few others had the talent to ride. Unlike the preferential treatment that the 'Doctored' later received this rubber was available to all, I would argue that McCoy was exploiting a Michelin on the 16.5 rim which was extremely difficult to use. Everyone followed suit because they assumed that simply reverting to the narrower rear was the key to his recent success. McCoy's special compound got sidelined in the process and he was forced to opt for the more amenable forgiving choices of tyre demanded by the rest of the paddock which negated much of the advantage that he had worked hard to perfect. Arguably Valentino was perhaps the only rider gifted enough to capitalise on the McCpy tyre. Garry did this on Clifford's WCM customer YZR - which had the same entire annual budget as an HRC rider would consume in tear offs alone.

McCoy's style was totally different to the 'tail gunning' revolution of the American dirt trackers. It wasn't just ad-hoc smoking the rear as you make it sound, Like Stoner, he would light up the rear and powerslide and almost perfect arc around a constant radius turn. If done smoothly it could actually enhance a lap time.

In spite of the advent of slipper clutches and electronic aids, we still see riders back it in - particularly in Superbike and Moto2, but as I have been at pains to point out in the past, that is something altogether different.

His first win at Welkom was a joy to behold and his riding in the 2000 season was one of the highlights of watching the 500 strokers during their rein...

His use of that extra hard tire and his unique sliding style should have shredded the rear but apparently the decreased traction from spinning the rear so much actually extended the tires life....go figure.

He was the sultan of slide and I often wonder how far he could have gone with the unlimited support enjoyed by some of his peers.

Good article about how Gazza set up a riding school for future Aussie MGP prospects...

Garry McCoy still squiggling - Motorbike Writer

He also made an appearance on Blokesworld recently when they did one of their motorbike rides through Vietnam/Laos...classic show!

Cool Blue · Nov 16, 2015

Apparently if you spun it up fast enough, as Gary did, it kind of skimmed. As a result it heated the skin of the tire but the tire body was heated less.

michaelm · Nov 16, 2015

Mr Squiggle said:
His first win at Welkom was a joy to behold and his riding in the 2000 season was one of the highlights of watching the 500 strokers during their rein...

His use of that extra hard tire and his unique sliding style should have shredded the rear but apparently the decreased traction from spinning the rear so much actually extended the tires life....go figure.

He was the sultan of slide and I often wonder how far he could have gone with the unlimited support enjoyed by some of his peers.

Good article about how Gazza set up a riding school for future Aussie MGP prospects...

Garry McCoy still squiggling - Motorbike Writer

He also made an appearance on Blokesworld recently when they did one of their motorbike rides through Vietnam/Laos...classic show!

For those who came in late, he is the reason for your "Mr Squiggle"' forum name.

For him to win 3 premier class races on a customer bike which, as Arabb has put it previously, figuratively arrived at the circuit in the boot of a car so under-resourced was his team, was entirely remarkable. In his race wins he usually came through the field late when the tyres of other riders were fading, so his style paradoxically did somehow allow him to get better late race performance from his tyres, apart from being spectacular to watch, even if I recall drawing VR's admiration in what was his first season riding in the premier class on the 500 Honda.

How sustainable his method was is a different question, he did crash and injure himself rather frequently, but it would indeed have been interesting to see how he went with a better funded team or even if he had been able to continue with his preferred tyre.

Jumkie · Nov 16, 2015

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Bern1 · Nov 16, 2015

I know sliding the bike today is different, I'm sure it's a little different every year, and I certainly don't mean to imply McCoy was cavalier about it, he was awesome to watch.

Just got lazy wordsmithing I guess.

Hard to compare riders and styles when the bikes and the rules change so much.

What if they had to push start the bikes today!

Arrabbiata1 · Nov 16, 2015

Bern1 said:
What if they had to push start the bikes today!

1000cc four strokes...interesting.

Most of them need a step ladder or a best a foot stool to mount the damn thing these days.

They should insist on a Le Mans style start at every race. Marquez would be tripping other riders up and Rossi would be kicking them.

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