Red Bull Grand Prix of the America

Gaz said:

Rumours are that it was not just MM who copped a serve but also Rossi as well with a huge focus was on Petrucci who many consider far more dangerous than Marquez with some angst also directed in Zarco's direction (said to be from 2 sources).

Additionally, it is said that a number of riders asked for consistent penalties and notification of breaches.

Others said to have copped a bit of heat were Race Direction and some feeder class riders were also mentioned.

None confirmed, just seeing reports from around circles

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From Millers press conference speech and backing of it by other riders, It seems the riders may have given the "media" a serve for making war off track. They want to keep the fights on track. This is a put down of both the media and rossi. Would also explain why rossi seems to have stopped whinging .... hopefully forever ...... but we'll see. May also ecplain the very poor turnout at the post race presser.

I liked Estoril, they should have kept that and got rid of one of the Spanish rounds. Also there should be one on every continent, Africa does not have one.

danski said:

I liked Estoril, they should have kept that and got rid of one of the Spanish rounds. Also there should be one on every continent, Africa does not have one.

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I don't think with the current political climate, they would want to go to South Africa. I did like Kylami and Welkom.

Agreed on Estoril.

Great ride by Iannone, good to see some luck go his way and put that Zook on the podium.

It was also good to see the factory Yams back at the pointy end. Solid rides from Mav and Rossi. Surely the bikes can't be in too bad of a state if they're 2nd and 4th?

I'm sure a few (including myself) still wondered if all the noise was going to manifest to show any signs on what has become a good baseline for Marc's status, COTA. As it turns out he was riding so slow through those last few corners I thought he was going to get another penalty for dawdling on the racing line. I honestly don't know a better way he could have to responded to his critics. Pure undeniable dominance.

No real surprise to see Cal literally throw his World Championship lead down the road. I thought having something to lose might see him focus a bit more on bringing home points but that wasn't to be. Consistently inconsistent.

Looking forward to the next round. Good to see the the Euro stage kicking off where I can down a few lagers during the race.

McZee said:

I don't know about you chaps but I felt there was a slightly more 'tentative' feel to the race?
Maybe it was the drawn out nature of the race or the commentary reference to penalties or maybe I just imagined it, but did anyone else get that vibe?

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Some comments attributed to Marquez would indicate that he felt that he could not get involved in any battles as 'all eyes were on him' and so he decided to check out to avoid battles and risk of contact.

Likewise it would seem that most if not all others were also a bit hesitant to put bikes in places where it may be deemed unnecessary, so yep tentative would describe it.

But as Danski says.

danski said:

No, I just got the feeling it was a .... race at a .... circuit.
Not detracting from a brilliant ride by Marquez before anyone gets on my case.
The US gp should go back to Laguna.
A track with character.

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It is a shame about the lack of atmosphere at the circuit but as has been said, an F1 track does not have to make a good motorcycle circuit despite many wanting it to.

As for the USGP, Laguna is one of those tracks that I have never really grown to enjoy but at the same time I simply have not seen any other US circuit that has been homologated that would be suitable, and well I cannot deny that Laguna has that 'old school track' appearance and atmosphere.

No real idea why I have never really gelled with Laguna but suspect that it is more the coverage (never been there) which possibly does not do the circuit justice as parts of the track and track maps should make me love the place, but I just cannot 'gel' with it. Or maybe it is the lack of lower capacity classes as I am very much of the 'all classes make a GP' type.

But yes, IMO Laguna would be better.

For the US guys/gals - what other tracks aside from Indy, LS and COTA exist that would be homolgated?

synn said:

I don't think with the current political climate, they would want to go to South Africa. I did like Kylami and Welkom.

Agreed on Estoril.

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I never much cared for Estoril, sooner see them go to Portimao.

I'd like to see COTA, Le Mans, Catalunya, Misano, Sepang, and Motegi all binned with the reintroduction of Rio, Laguna, Paul Ricard, Istanbul Park and Suzuka and the proposed rounds in India and Taupo speedway to materialise. Unfortunately, we have the terribly dull Buriram instead.

Kyalami - remember Lawson winning there one year, but not much else. WSBk was brilliant - recalling Haga and Bostrum plunging sideways into the mineshaft.

Phakisa freeway throws up some good memories too. Valentino's first win on the Yamaha of course and Gibernau winning on Kato's bike immediately after his death. Also Stoner's crash in 250 in which Toby first coined the "London Marathon Walk".



I also remember, and I've mentioned this before, a group of us watching a 250 race in which someone pointed out a paddock bike or scooter riding at ridiculous pace around the outer ring. It wasn't, it was the ever entertaining Seb Porto who had run off the track and somehow ended up on the outer oval. I'm sure he rejoined and finished on the rostrum. My favourite Porto moment comes from PI though when he ran off track in the wet and motocrossed through the infield complete with jumps and puddles to rejoin. Can't find it.

Gaz said:

Some comments attributed to Marquez would indicate that he felt that he could not get involved in any battles as 'all eyes were on him' and so he decided to check out to avoid battles and risk of contact.

Likewise it would seem that most if not all others were also a bit hesitant to put bikes in places where it may be deemed unnecessary, so yep tentative would describe it.

But as Danski says.



It is a shame about the lack of atmosphere at the circuit but as has been said, an F1 track does not have to make a good motorcycle circuit despite many wanting it to.

As for the USGP, Laguna is one of those tracks that I have never really grown to enjoy but at the same time I simply have not seen any other US circuit that has been homologated that would be suitable, and well I cannot deny that Laguna has that 'old school track' appearance and atmosphere.

No real idea why I have never really gelled with Laguna but suspect that it is more the coverage (never been there) which possibly does not do the circuit justice as parts of the track and track maps should make me love the place, but I just cannot 'gel' with it. Or maybe it is the lack of lower capacity classes as I am very much of the 'all classes make a GP' type.

But yes, IMO Laguna would be better.

For the US guys/gals - what other tracks aside from Indy, LS and COTA exist that would be homolgated?

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Watkins Glen is a decent circuit but I think it's walls are a bit too close to the track for a GP to be held there.

Gaz said:

For the US guys/gals - what other tracks aside from Indy, LS and COTA exist that would be homolgated?

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Would or could?

Barber or Road America would be excellent and although joking yesterday, I actually liked Miller.

Forgot to mention in the previous post, I'd love to see GP go to Brands instead of Silverstone. Wonderful circuit.

Arrabbiata1 said:

Would or could?

Barber or Road America would be excellent and although joking yesterday, I actually liked Miller.

Forgot to mention in the previous post, I'd love to see GP go to Brands instead of Silverstone. Wonderful circuit.

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Completely agree, my favourite circuit in the UK is Oulton Park but that would be less likely to host a GP than Brands. I still hold hope that Brands will host a GP but I suspect the safety guys watching replays of that horrible crash involving Leon Haslam last October would put paid to that.

Portimao is a fine circuit. I would love to see it on the calendar.

Of the ones you listed, I don't mind Le mans, Misano is sentimentally nice as it is now a memorial curcuit for Simoncelli, agreed on the rest. I am not sure if Suzuka meets the current safety standards though. I would bin Valencia as well because of its go-kart nature.

Burinam is godawful.

Anyone know what the new Finland circuit is like?

synn said:

, Misano is sentimentally nice as it is now a memorial curcuit for Simoncelli,

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That's a good shout.

McZee said:

I don't know about you chaps but I felt there was a slightly more 'tentative' feel to the race?
Maybe it was the drawn out nature of the race or the commentary reference to penalties or maybe I just imagined it, but did anyone else get that vibe?

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Yes, of course, one can say, 'Rossi has destroyed the sport.' Racing is a thing of the past. Notice that Race Direction had to retroactively 'review' Pol Espargaro's incident to make Marc's penalty a reality. I posted several quotes by riders saying if the changes are going to be made, then it should apply to "everyone" of course they wouldn't say Rossi's name, but it's obvious what they meant. Also, Carmelo specifically demanded the riders "forget about the past" an obvious reference to Sepang 15, which Zarco publicly brought up and the silence to cover the comment is deafening.


The change is absolutely the aftermath of a overreaction to the racing incident involving Rossi, it's the only reason for the demand and accommodation for dramatic change. It's a perversion of decency because if ever change needed to be made and a rider deserve his reputation be tarnish, deserving of a full court press of media prosecution, it was Rossi after his deliberate attack on Marc.

Rossi again weaponized his skewed and lopsided influence upon the organization. Carmelo effectively acted as his sport agent again in the safety commission. Demanding that all the riders forget about Rossi's egregious act at Sepang. Forget about it. The press conference Rossi had at Argentina effectively mobilized the officials to act against the once accepted norms of racing.

Close acing is effectively shelved and will be rarely employed. Afterall, wasn't this Marc's crime that lead to Rossi's attack? Clean hard racing has been redefined thanks to the Rossi-centric perversion of the craft. Notice the recurring lament of "boring racing". Get used to it folks.

'Rossi (and his 'anablers') has ruined the sport.'






If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

Arrabbiata1 said:

Would or could?

Barber or Road America would be excellent and although joking yesterday, I actually liked Miller.

Forgot to mention in the previous post, I'd love to see GP go to Brands instead of Silverstone. Wonderful circuit.

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Road America is a great circuit but will never get GP standards. Too many close barriers (think Katherine Legge's shunt) and forget the seagulls at PI, there are lots of incidents of deer getting hit there, most specifically Christiano Da Matta's career ending crash when he hit a deer on the straight coming down to turn 4.

Onto the race. Processional by GP standards but a masterclass from Marquez. His only blip was baulking Vinales but he answered his critics perfectly by totally dominating the weekend.

**Special Mention to Pedrosa. Reached Q2 and finished 7th with a broken wrist. A lazarus style comeback of biblical proportions!**

Good to see Vinales back up there, lets hope he can continue the form. Great ride by Iannone, making Suzuki's decision hard. Solid ride by Rossi I thought, though his early pace seemed to drop off quickly. Dovi is in damage limitation but what can you say about Lorenzo? I like the guy and want to see him up front but it seems like he's taken a step backwards this year. At least he led some races last year. I hope he and Ducati can sort it soon. If not I think Suzuki will be his lifesaver if he wants to be competitive again.

Talking of Lorenzo, I'm surprised no mention has been made of the Miller pass on him in the closing stages of the race. Gaz can you get a GIF of it?



Picture doesn't show it well, but Miller lunged (and admits he did). If Lorenzo hadn't have stood the bike up, there would have been a crash. Miller was not penalised or given a warning when he himself admits he made a mistake and only Lorenzo taking avoiding action caused a crash. So are they now saying you can do what you like, as long as you don't cause a rider to crash?

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/894463/1/miller-i-tried-apologise-lorenzo

Miller:

"I could have stopped for the corner but I was either going to have to try and go around the outside of him - but he was already so wide - or try to go up the inside. Those were the options.

"So I just went up the inside. I don’t think there was any contact. I knew it was close. It was last-minute and I didn’t plan it. I was just dealing with the situation as best I could.

"I went to say to say sorry after the race. He didn’t want to acknowledge it, but anyway it is what it is. I saw he was having some tyre problems. I guess after the race is not the ideal time to talk to another rider if they've had a bad one…"

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Lorenzo said of the incident:

"It didn’t change things so much, no?

"If I didn't pick up my bike, I crash. So if the rider doesn't impact you or you don't crash, they [Race Direction] don't do anything. Always the same riders, these actions.

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I noticed that as well. Like I've said before the difference between something like this and many others we have seen is vs the Rossi/Marquez one is that Rossi refuses to pick his bike up to avoid contact.

So the logic is right now shown by this and other incidents in the past if the rider being overtaken picks his bike up to avoid contact and/or crashing and it's deemed fair pass then the onus is on the rider being overtaken to make sure that he doesn't collide with the inside rider. Not punishing a rider who performs the overtake like Miller did because by no action of his own but by actions of others there was no contact must mean that Miller has done nothing wrong. If he has done nothing wrong because Lorenzo has avoided contact by standing his bike up then you can't punish someone who does a similar thing but the slower rider doesn't take action to avoid contact. I don't think RD can have this both ways, they either have to punish the rider who does this move whether it is avoided by the slower riders actions or not or not punish the rider whether there is contact or not IMO.

Rules can't be dictated by what did or didn't happen because a rider chose to or not to take evasive action. If you punish one rider ala Marquez for causing a rider to crash in a move like this then you have to penalise other riders who do the exact or similar move but it only resulted in no contact because the other rider took evasive action. The intent and actions are exactly the same and thus they must be treated the same IMO.

Jerez will be the acid test for Jorge, I think.
He went well there last year, if it's a poor showing this time, then it's safe to say that he is done on the duc'.

McZee said:

Jerez will be the acid test for Jorge, I think.
He went well there last year, if it's a poor showing this time, then it's safe to say that he is done on the duc'.

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Not sure about that. Jerez has been resurfaced, so that'll play with the order (and likely favour the Yamahas).

p4p1 said:

Rules can't be dictated by what did or didn't happen because a rider chose to or not to take evasive action.

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It's certainly been a thought in Rossi's Machiavellian mind, knowing he can hack the system of hyperactive scrutiny on Marc. Which is what happened at Argentina. All Rossi needs to do now is get close enough to Marc (i know) and feign contact, tah dah, enter Race Direction to the rescue. When I watched the race live I told my buddies Jack Miller's unintentional dive bomb standing Lorenzo up would have been penalized had that been Marc. Because of the fabricated plurality of penalties it can now be easily justified. But...forget about the past, right Carmelo? We should not employ our memories because it doesn't help to remember every non-penalized aggressive dirty and deliberate tactic Rossi employed. As much as I now dislike Lorenzo (sorry Libby, but he cockblocked Dovi) he is correct in his analysis of Race Direction's reaction, and he was correct at Misano 2016, that or we must obligate the rider being overtaken to reasonably avoid contact, which clearly Rossi capriciously refuses to do because of his self-important sense of status.

Consider the perversion of racing norms, the incident between Miller and Lorenzo is hardly a blip of a footnote, but consider had Lorenzo capriciously allowed the contact, would there have been a disqualification of Miller? Lorenzo said it's always the usual suspects, so if this is true, shouldn't there have been a prosecution of Miller for past crimes? I like Miller, but that's irrelevant if we are to conduct the sport evenhandedly.



If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

danski said:

No, I just got the feeling it was a .... race at a .... circuit.
Not detracting from a brilliant ride by Marquez before anyone gets on my case.
The US gp should go back to Laguna.
A track with character.

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I know that is a .... comment. Both Marquez and Viñales like the track and their opinions about the venue carry just a little more weight than some anonymous, self-anointed internet authority.

MV is looking strong, but MM looked fantastic here. He's looked fantastic at all three races.

I'd be surprised if MM doesn't dominate this year.

What a fantastic talent.

RCV600RR said:

Not sure about that. Jerez has been resurfaced, so that'll play with the order (and likely favour the Yamahas).

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Ah, I wasn't aware of that. I hope it's not a case of turn up, discover the tyres can't go full distance on the new surface, then have a race where they have to pit after 10 laps.
I doubt it though.
Does anyone know who has done any pre-season testing at Jerez.