Qatar test.

I'm also curious about Marquezs testing pace. He's not slow by any means but certainly not lightning fast either. Obviously he's in a much better position than last year and Pedrosas testing times are certainly a positive for Marc and Honda. I wonder if he approaches testing different now after the last few years haven't gone so well? Either way it seems to me that testing times are almost useless when it comes to trying to figure out what's going to happen during the season. I'm still very curious to see how Mav goes when/if MM, VR and JL rough him up and disrupt his rhythm.

I do believe if Marquez was treating testing as a .... showing contest that I think he would be capable of topping the time sheets almost anywhere in the world. That he's sitting 6th to me says that he's treating as testing and nothing more.

p4p1 said:

That he's sitting 6th to me says that he's treating as testing and nothing more.

Click to expand...

He is eleventh, not sixth, in combined testing. For session three, he was tenth. Huge difference. At sixth, I might not have paid any attention to the positioning.

EDIT: Looky here: Qatar combined test numbers.

Iamapony said:

He is eleventh, not sixth, in combined testing. For session three, he was tenth. Huge difference. At sixth, I might not have paid any attention to the positioning.

EDIT: Looky here: Qatar combined test numbers.

Click to expand...

Oh I must've read the wrong time sheets then.

Interesting, I wonder what the hell is going on? I guess we won't have to wait long to find out.

I don't think the Ducati fairing is finished. I think they are going to place wings in there that they can open and close F1 style to create more down force in and out of corners and flatten them out in the straights.... Yeah, probably not, it wood be cool if they tried it.
On a side note, do you notice the riders numbers a lot now in daily life. In my street for example I always wave and give the thumbs up to the guy who lives in number 43, I think he thinks i'm just the friendly neighborhood loony.
Across the road from him live the Rossis, try to control everything that goes on in the street. I live in 25 so i've developed a soft spot for Vinales, i often tell people my name is M. Vinales for non important mail. I didn't like the Pedrosas across the road much but they are ok now (wish they would hurry up and move out though). And my neighbors the Stoners, nice people, I get drunk, play loud music, come home late. They've never complained once.
#really need the season to start.
v post number 43:good:

p4p1 said:

Oh I must've read the wrong time sheets then.

Interesting, I wonder what the hell is going on? I guess we won't have to wait long to find out.

Click to expand...

Crashed 3 times on the 3rd day when most other riders got their fastest times.

I wonder if he will go back to the old chassis again.

Ducati has been strong at Losail the past couple of years. I wouldn't take any of their times as being indicative of how the entire season will unfold for them. Lorenzo may do well at the season opener, but may find himself in a similar quandary as he did last year when the tires started becoming inconsistent...only it's going to be more down to the bike than anything else.

Of course the fanboys are so certain Vinales is the second coming of who knows what based on his topping the time sheets at every test since the 2016 season ended. Great for Maverick...I just hope he knows what kind of pressure he has set for himself by doing this. Anything less than a victory in 2 weeks is going to ratchet up the pressure and focus on him in a way he can't really conceive at this point, and he's probably not ready for this. I still believe he is hype personified, and it's as if everyone has forgotten he performs differently when he was 20 other motorcycles around him and no one is giving him an inch. That being said, I'm expecting multiple wins out of him this season because he is on the Yamaha M1. But for all those who think it's his skills, that's only part of the equation. He's on the only bike any rider really wants to be on. The Suzuki stint should have indicated what his overall talent level is...but it's like everything in racing, people forget the impact of the machine and can't come to grips with the reality that a great machine will boost the rider up to that seemingly next level. Vinales hasn't gotten any better since Valencia 2016, his bike did. Wait till he has to have a real battle for many laps against Marquez, Rossi, or even Lorenzo should he figure out a way to be at the front. I see people elsewhere claiming Vinales is looking like Stoner in 2007. Considering no one expected Casey to do ...., and he was riding a far worse bike than the rest of the factory entries, I'm going to say no...and that doesn't even account for no one expecting him to do much, let alone win a title.

Marquez is still the man to beat, and I don't put much stock in him only being 11th after the final day of testing. Doesn't mean anything. The RCV is better than appears this year. Triple world champion ignored in favor of HYPE. Good for Marquez as it's obvious the media is running to gather round the person with 1 race victory to date in GP and no titles. Let's him keep his head down rather than be the center of focus.

Marquez has stated in the past that he uses practice to test how far he can do things before he crashes, we've seen him do it many times and then during the race he's fine.
Do you think he could be doing the same here JPS, especially as Dani has done so well this weekend?
I'm absolutely on the fence regarding MV, I'd like to see him win as I support Yamaha. I think a lot will depend on how he handles the pressure from the other side of the garage, as it's sure to come if he's beating his team mate regularly.

Never seen Vinales back down from a challenge. Don't know that I expect him to take Marquez's lunch - but I fully expect him to podium frequently. Last year he finished 4th overall on the Suzuki, and only suffered one DNF. That's consistency and it speaks volumes. As long as there's no finagling with his bike by Yamaha for purposes of propping up Rossi - he will doubtless benefit from A. Maturing as a rider B. Better bike C. Better support.

Re: Ducati - yes absolutely, they always look hot .... at Qatar, and after that... who knows?

Iamapony said:

I will go with distance testing and nothing major for MM, only because Pedrosa did well. While their styles are different, and Dani is slightly smaller than Marc, they aren't that different. Marc "should" always be faster than Dani, in my opinion. MM results are surprising, and would make me a little nervous for his good competition, except Bautista and Redding are ahead of him on today's time sheet. So we KNOW these times may mean nothing what-so-ev-ar.

Lorenzo seems to be getting along okay with the Ducati, which could mean BIG problems for others in the field.

Click to expand...

I think Lorenzo will be strong on the Ducati, stronger than most other riders anyway except for probably Stoner and Caparossi in 06 .... I think best case scenario it will take him a couple seasons to get his head around the bike/Ducati to focus development of their bike around his needs.

No disrespect to the guy but I don't think adapting to changes are his strongest point. Getting his head around the new Michelin tyres last year was very hit and miss for him ... and that was on a bike he was very familiar with and had been developed around him to a degree. I don't think adding a completely new bike into the equation is going to make things any easier for him to get his head around, regardless of how much brutal power the Ducati engine has. Would LOVE to see him bring Ducati a flag though, the Honda/Yamaha show can make things a bit stale ... always love to see other manufacturers stick it to them.

Yamaha wouldn't have invested in Vinales if he was only pure hype. If anything, Marquez was pure HYPE when HRC signed him out of Moto2 to a factory RCV. Vinales had to earn a factory Yamaha by performing well in the premier class while Marquez got his ride based on his hype from the junior series. Is there some hype surrounding Vinales? Sure. But he has shown he has talent to back it up and if he continues to put in the work to improve his racecraft he'll be as strong of a championship contender as Marquez, Rossi, and Lorenzo. I can already see some people dreaming up excuses to .... on Maverick's hard work by claiming any improvements out of him will only due to the M1 and not his dedication to training, learning, and improving his abilities.

Goonwriter said:

I don't think the Ducati fairing is finished. I think they are going to place wings in there that they can open and close F1 style to create more down force in and out of corners and flatten them out in the straights.... Yeah, probably not, it wood be cool if they tried it.
:

Click to expand...

So in short...Gigi will relaunch and design the old Galactica bike from 1980s...?

And JPS is right....Ducati and JLo going well at Qatar in testing, and in Race 1 will not tell us anything about rest of his season...

Vinales is looking very impressive, and I believe he has MM very worried...

AJV80 said:

I think Lorenzo will be strong on the Ducati, stronger than most other riders anyway except for probably Stoner and Caparossi in 06 .... I think best case scenario it will take him a couple seasons to get his head around the bike/Ducati to focus development of their bike around his needs......

Click to expand...

Except that Ducati says they are adjusting for him. They have made the investment and expect him to win. Apparently they have learned from past mistakes. We shall see. I believe it, because of your other points. If Lorenzo was really struggling with the bike, he would be in the teens, not fourth in combined times.

moto vudu said:

Yamaha wouldn't have invested in Vinales if he was only pure hype. If anything, Marquez was pure HYPE when HRC signed him out of Moto2 to a factory RCV. Vinales had to earn a factory Yamaha by performing well in the premier class while Marquez got his ride based on his hype from the junior series. Is there some hype surrounding Vinales? Sure. But he has shown he has talent to back it up and if he continues to put in the work to improve his racecraft he'll be as strong of a championship contender as Marquez, Rossi, and Lorenzo. I can already see some people dreaming up excuses to .... on Maverick's hard work by claiming any improvements out of him will only due to the M1 and not his dedication to training, learning, and improving his abilities.

Click to expand...

Perhaps you should look at their records, since MM kicks MV ... all over the place in actuality. Let us not forget that MM started from last on the grid and won a Moto2 race, or that he was kept in Moto2 an extra year to "mature". Then there is his records in MotoGP, like youngest champion ever. It seems to me that MM is about as real a deal as you can get. The guy has crashed at 200mph, pops up with a smile and wins races. No hype. It's what has happened. MV does not have anything close to MMs accomplishments.

Honda team principal interview post-Qatar on the prospects for the Honda satellites.

"All five riders have basically the same machine. Only Marc has a little bit different chassis but they tested it and didn't like. So I think from a technical point of view we are giving all what we can." - Livio Suppo

Iamapony said:

Except that Ducati says they are adjusting for him. They have made the investment and expect him to win. Apparently they have learned from past mistakes. We shall see. I believe it, because of your other points. If Lorenzo was really struggling with the bike, he would be in the teens, not fourth in combined times.

Perhaps you should look at their records, since MM kicks MV ... all over the place in actuality. Let us not forget that MM started from last on the grid and won a Moto2 race, or that he was kept in Moto2 an extra year to "mature". Then there is his records in MotoGP, like youngest champion ever. It seems to me that MM is about as real a deal as you can get. The guy has crashed at 200mph, pops up with a smile and wins races. No hype. It's what has happened. MV does not have anything close to MMs accomplishments.

Click to expand...

You seem to have misunderstood my post. I wasn't saying that MM is currently hype, just that at the time he got his factory Honda it was based on his hype because he had no GP experience. MV has performed well at the GP level on a developing Suzuki... that isn't hype. MM got a championship capable bike right from the start, MV just now got one so the MV vs MM comparison should start now.

Davide Brivio seemed rather subdued in his interview after the testing concluded.

Not entirely surprising though. Iannone is struggling while Aleix appears to be doing fairly well on the Aprilia.

Brivio sounded a little choked up when asked his opinion about the championship favourites and Maverick's chances.

The coming season may end up lending some perspective to Vinales' past performance on the GSX-RR.

moto vudu said:

Yamaha wouldn't have invested in Vinales if he was only pure hype. If anything, Marquez was pure HYPE when HRC signed him out of Moto2 to a factory RCV. Vinales had to earn a factory Yamaha by performing well in the premier class while Marquez got his ride based on his hype from the junior series. Is there some hype surrounding Vinales? Sure. But he has shown he has talent to back it up and if he continues to put in the work to improve his racecraft he'll be as strong of a championship contender as Marquez, Rossi, and Lorenzo. I can already see some people dreaming up excuses to .... on Maverick's hard work by claiming any improvements out of him will only due to the M1 and not his dedication to training, learning, and improving his abilities.

Click to expand...

The guy has one premier class win, and is no doubt going to add to this.

But you're missing the point as usual.

You have a triple world champion who with his other two titles has five titles total, all of which were achieved when he was 23. He's two years older than Vinales, yet his overall record pretty much ..... on Vinales. MM won a world title riding an okay bike last season, but nothing in line with the Honda worldbeaters of the past. He's more talented than Vinales is on his best day, and he's the only rider on the grid you can seriously say could win the world title on almost any one of the factory bikes minus the Aprilia and KTM.

So do tell me, why is Vinales worthy of the hype he is currently receiving when the defending champion is easily the most talented rider currently in grand prix motorcycle racing?

You're newer to the whole racing thing, and I along with others here have watched many racers who were as hyped up as Vinales currently is, ultimately fail to deliver on all of the hype. Try not to forget about the unfortunate case of Marco Melandri 10 years ago. While his troubles all had to do with the Ducati GP08, it's a reminder that hype doesn't always pan out for various reasons --some of which are due to other elements than just talent-- and remember, Marco had more wins than Vinales did on a satellite bike no less prior to suiting up for Ducati.

There's nothing more that I abhor than the hype about riders who while talented, are not in possession of any serious body of work that accords...no, demands respect. Vinales is not there yet, and he being talented means .... all. Most everyone on that grid is talented, so Maverick being talented means nothing. As I already stated, he's not an alien even though the hangers-on in the paddock would spin tales of him descending from a spaceship to grace us mortals with his ability.

I have no issue according him respect, but respect must be earned.

And for a guy who routinely .... on Lorenzo for some of the dumbest nonsensical reasons, you whining about this is laughable.

yamfan said:

Marquez has stated in the past that he uses practice to test how far he can do things before he crashes, we've seen him do it many times and then during the race he's fine.
Do you think he could be doing the same here JPS, especially as Dani has done so well this weekend?
I'm absolutely on the fence regarding MV, I'd like to see him win as I support Yamaha. I think a lot will depend on how he handles the pressure from the other side of the garage, as it's sure to come if he's beating his team mate regularly.

Click to expand...

Yes I think MM's crashes are just him exploring the limits as he usually does.

He's matured heavily as a rider these past two years though, and has treated testing exactly as it is supposed to be treated. He carried out Honda's program to get all of the things sorted out with the RCV mechanically and electronically. The real test is going to be on the first race weekend and seeing how the RCV accelerates out of the final corner onto the main straight at Losail. If there's minimal/no wheelspin/no acceleration woes, and the bike is generally stable through corners, MM repeats in 2017. He's already talked about targeting winning at Losail which is interesting as the Honda has not been strong there for a couple of years. I'm skeptical of him even winning the season opener as the Ducati is going to be very strong there, as will the Yamaha. As long as he picks his spots and settles for points where wins are not possible, the title will be his to lose. We'll know more come Austin. If he has a win at either or both Losail and Argentina, you may be looking at 2014 redux.

MigsAngel said:

Vinales is looking very impressive, and I believe he has MM very worried...

Click to expand...

The only thing that can beat MM currently is MM. He should be working on 4 premier class titles and would have been had he taken 2016's approach in 2015. Had he rode to the points instead of trying to override the bike to positions he couldn't maintain that year, he would have won the title quite easily in spite of not winning many races that year.

MM isn't worried about Vinales by a country mile. The kid likes to race and really, if he didn't back down from VR, especially when VR tried his tactics that used to work on other riders, why would you even think Vinales is going to worry him?

moto vudu said:

Yamaha wouldn't have invested in Vinales if he was only pure hype. If anything, Marquez was pure HYPE when HRC signed him out of Moto2 to a factory RCV. Vinales had to earn a factory Yamaha by performing well in the premier class while Marquez got his ride based on his hype from the junior series. Is there some hype surrounding Vinales? Sure. But he has shown he has talent to back it up and if he continues to put in the work to improve his racecraft he'll be as strong of a championship contender as Marquez, Rossi, and Lorenzo. I can already see some people dreaming up excuses to .... on Maverick's hard work by claiming any improvements out of him will only due to the M1 and not his dedication to training, learning, and improving his abilities.

Click to expand...

Colin Edwards was no world-beater. But he was a good part testing mule, and a team player. Sometimes - that's enough.

That said, Vinales has huge potential - and I reckon Yamaha is realistic enough to want a potential world championship winner to ride the series while the aging Rossi is there signing autographs and mugging for the cameras.

Am I crazy to think Marquezs moto2 record was more impressive than Vinaeles' GP record so far?