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povl
Whatever you say Jesse "the dummy" Ventura :lol:
Whatever you say Jesse "the dummy" Ventura :lol:
Keshav
I think I have had a hard time conveying to people just how bad the food (and pollution but mainly food) is there. I lost 8 lbs in 3 weeks there.
Confused about the car thing though, maybe they ramped up the restoration program since Fidel moved on. When I was there about 1/3 of the cars were Lada's, 1/3 were modern European cars and the last 1/3 were 4 door pre-60's American cars, many of which had Lada engines. I don't think I saw a single restored American car in three weeks. The carnage in that country is unbelievable, their superhighway ends in a farmers field (the Soviet Union collapsed mid way through the project) and as far as I could tell no matinace has been done to anything in 50 years. The embargo really ...... that country. Funny though, they do have a longer life expectancy than Canadian and Americans.
I think I have had a hard time conveying to people just how bad the food (and pollution but mainly food) is there. I lost 8 lbs in 3 weeks there.
Confused about the car thing though, maybe they ramped up the restoration program since Fidel moved on. When I was there about 1/3 of the cars were Lada's, 1/3 were modern European cars and the last 1/3 were 4 door pre-60's American cars, many of which had Lada engines. I don't think I saw a single restored American car in three weeks. The carnage in that country is unbelievable, their superhighway ends in a farmers field (the Soviet Union collapsed mid way through the project) and as far as I could tell no matinace has been done to anything in 50 years. The embargo really ...... that country. Funny though, they do have a longer life expectancy than Canadian and Americans.
Goatboy
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birdman
It was Ducati's hard work with Bridgestone that delivered the results & delivered the right tyre. 3 years of hard work together that resulted in a championship. Ducati were willing to go to Michelin to recieve that same treatment, it speaks volumes.
Goatboy
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birdman
The yellow Goliath (his team & Michelin) had that hard work taken away from them when the rule changes forbade SNS. What is the difference?
Without any experience of Bridgestone rubber? It took hard work to get to the point they were at with Michelin, just as it did Ducati & Bridgestone.
The yellow Goliath (his team & Michelin) had that hard work taken away from them when the rule changes forbade SNS. What is the difference?
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Goatboy
I think some of the press at the time had Ducati as stating (to this effect) - we are really the only true prototype series with tyre competition, we'd rather go back to the unwanted team and start working with them to maintain this competition as it is good for racing.
None of the Michelin guys wanted to stay, they dumped them and ran, Ducati taught them about loyalty and the the decent way to treat a valued partner.
What was missing from all of the blurbs of the rodents filing off the Michelin ship was an offer to work with Michelin to catch up.
The Bridgestone plant had just copped a big earth quake, the title could have been back with Michelin in 3 years.
No instead the unceremoniously dumped them.
St the time it was postulated that Ezy didn't want another fright like that, the clenching killed his best hamster.
Competition was the answer to equity between teams and Factories
I think some of the press at the time had Ducati as stating (to this effect) - we are really the only true prototype series with tyre competition, we'd rather go back to the unwanted team and start working with them to maintain this competition as it is good for racing.
None of the Michelin guys wanted to stay, they dumped them and ran, Ducati taught them about loyalty and the the decent way to treat a valued partner.
What was missing from all of the blurbs of the rodents filing off the Michelin ship was an offer to work with Michelin to catch up.
The Bridgestone plant had just copped a big earth quake, the title could have been back with Michelin in 3 years.
No instead the unceremoniously dumped them.
St the time it was postulated that Ezy didn't want another fright like that, the clenching killed his best hamster.
Competition was the answer to equity between teams and Factories
Goatboy
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Andy Roo
Two years of problems with Michelin, that's an eternity in racing. Just ask that Yellow fella.
I'm against the single tyre rule, I've said all along it results in stagnation. However there wasn't any competition at the time was there, Bridgestone was the tyre to be on & what racer in their right mind wouldn't want to be on the right tyre? The long term & loyalty don't come into it in a sport where your one lap away from a career changing injury or worse, where you are constantly reminded of your age & the approaching young guys. I always come back to Burgess quote "We're not here to be liked, we're here to win" & so it remains.
michaelm
& Why shouldn't they?
Two years of problems with Michelin, that's an eternity in racing. Just ask that Yellow fella.
I'm against the single tyre rule, I've said all along it results in stagnation. However there wasn't any competition at the time was there, Bridgestone was the tyre to be on & what racer in their right mind wouldn't want to be on the right tyre? The long term & loyalty don't come into it in a sport where your one lap away from a career changing injury or worse, where you are constantly reminded of your age & the approaching young guys. I always come back to Burgess quote "We're not here to be liked, we're here to win" & so it remains.
michaelm
& Why shouldn't they?
michaelm
The tyre deals prior to the control were convoluted - everyone got charged, but some were offset by Michelin paying them to test, as sponsor, etc. What teams paid was on contract and could vary from team to team. It was an inequitable situation.
Now the teams pay their entry fee to IRTA who negotiates the tyre contract. That allows for a set number of tyres for racing and testing, but teams can buy their own tyres outside of that agreement - if there are any to spare. Bridgestone hasn't had a lot of capacity to spare and the numbers of tyres available for wildcard teams to test with has been an issue.
Michelin's financial situation was exacerbated by competition from Asia and Eastern Europe. Being a communist-run union shop, they were held by the balls and had their feet to the fire - it took a new French government to allow them to move poorly-performing factories to areas with lower labour charges. This didn't, AFAIK, affect their racing division, which has made money hand-over-fist forever.
The tyre deals prior to the control were convoluted - everyone got charged, but some were offset by Michelin paying them to test, as sponsor, etc. What teams paid was on contract and could vary from team to team. It was an inequitable situation.
Now the teams pay their entry fee to IRTA who negotiates the tyre contract. That allows for a set number of tyres for racing and testing, but teams can buy their own tyres outside of that agreement - if there are any to spare. Bridgestone hasn't had a lot of capacity to spare and the numbers of tyres available for wildcard teams to test with has been an issue.
Michelin's financial situation was exacerbated by competition from Asia and Eastern Europe. Being a communist-run union shop, they were held by the balls and had their feet to the fire - it took a new French government to allow them to move poorly-performing factories to areas with lower labour charges. This didn't, AFAIK, affect their racing division, which has made money hand-over-fist forever.
Goatboy
Was it really that long? IIRC there were a couple of races (under difficult conditions) that resulted in Michelin's crapping out, but for the most part they were competitive. Not competitive enough for Pedrosa and Rossi, obviously.
They spat the dummy when the field was levelled with regard to overnight specials. Maybe that was the thing that showed the ..... in their ability to make a decent race tyre? Their wonderful tyre technology was down to hand-made specials for a specific set of conditions. When they had to make a general-purpose tyre, their crown slipped a bit.
Was it really that long? IIRC there were a couple of races (under difficult conditions) that resulted in Michelin's crapping out, but for the most part they were competitive. Not competitive enough for Pedrosa and Rossi, obviously.
They spat the dummy when the field was levelled with regard to overnight specials. Maybe that was the thing that showed the ..... in their ability to make a decent race tyre? Their wonderful tyre technology was down to hand-made specials for a specific set of conditions. When they had to make a general-purpose tyre, their crown slipped a bit.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote1362567089
No-one complained when Michelin was the tire to be on. And even then, it's not like the Michelin's of 2007 were not competitive, suggesting as much reeks of revisionism.
Oh yeah: two years? Some rats jumped ship after 1, if I remember correctly.
I think the question is not 'what racer wouldn't want to be on the right tire?' but 'what series let's itself be strongarmed by one rider?'.
Edit: seems BJ.C had the same thought.
No-one complained when Michelin was the tire to be on. And even then, it's not like the Michelin's of 2007 were not competitive, suggesting as much reeks of revisionism.
Oh yeah: two years? Some rats jumped ship after 1, if I remember correctly.
I think the question is not 'what racer wouldn't want to be on the right tire?' but 'what series let's itself be strongarmed by one rider?'.
Edit: seems BJ.C had the same thought.
BJ.C
Why do you reckon they changed the rule then, if not as a cost saving measure? I don't reject the notion they might have done it and gone on to the control tyre with the object of more fairness, but if so as with many of their rule changes the law of unintended consequences applies. They fairly definitely didn't discard the sns tyre to help rossi though.
Why do you reckon they changed the rule then, if not as a cost saving measure? I don't reject the notion they might have done it and gone on to the control tyre with the object of more fairness, but if so as with many of their rule changes the law of unintended consequences applies. They fairly definitely didn't discard the sns tyre to help rossi though.
Goatboy
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How quickly people forget that there were any tyre problems in 2006 for Michelin, instances of chatter & chunking & soft tyres not reaching temperature.
So I was wrong it was 3 years.
How dare I suggest that it might not all have been down to Stoner & his Harry Potteresque throttle control eh? I guess to suggest that Ducati & Bridgestone had anything to do with it is now considered revisionism. Stoner is not an engineer you know, he didn't build the bike himself...self defeating cliche etc etc
How quickly people forget that there were any tyre problems in 2006 for Michelin, instances of chatter & chunking & soft tyres not reaching temperature.
So I was wrong it was 3 years.
How dare I suggest that it might not all have been down to Stoner & his Harry Potteresque throttle control eh? I guess to suggest that Ducati & Bridgestone had anything to do with it is now considered revisionism. Stoner is not an engineer you know, he didn't build the bike himself...self defeating cliche etc etc
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote1362569915
How quickly people forget that in motorsports, you have to push technological limits to beat the competition. Want me to use my awesome powers of wiki to start counting championships, wins, podiums, poles and fastest laps in 2006?
Edit: And since you've editted in an additional paragraph: Don't go playing victim. No-one suggested that the Ducati-Stoner-Bridgstone combination wasn't great. That does not equate to Michelin's being uncompetitive tires. You are putting words in people's mouth.
How quickly people forget that in motorsports, you have to push technological limits to beat the competition. Want me to use my awesome powers of wiki to start counting championships, wins, podiums, poles and fastest laps in 2006?
Edit: And since you've editted in an additional paragraph: Don't go playing victim. No-one suggested that the Ducati-Stoner-Bridgstone combination wasn't great. That does not equate to Michelin's being uncompetitive tires. You are putting words in people's mouth.
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