Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Jumkie
The most blatant example of this for me was this imposition of a 750cc cap on capacity for IL4's in WSBk to maintain the hegemony of Ducati. Amazingly few seemed unsettled by this - not least followers of Carl ......' Fogarty who quite simply wouldn't have been a four times World Champion without such a comparative advantage.
I somewhat agree with your point - albeit slightly extreme. Memory can be selective though. Last year the late change to the tyre carcass enforced by Dorna and petitioned by the riders absolutely ...... HRC until July. It was deployment of a NASA like budget into R&D as only Honda can do which turned the situation around. Ironically, on reflection and as I understand it, a gazillion chassis changes later, the solution - or perhaps more specifically, an amelioration of the problem, actually lay in a change to the cush drive costing a couple of Euro's.
Undoubtably, the decrease in fuel capacity will favour Honda - and as you know, I reject the Spanish/Repsol conspiracy theories on the basis that HRC have far more insidious influence on the way this championship is run. As Chops mentioned in another thread, Lin Jarvis said some very interesting things about the implications of the new fuel regulations when he guested in the Eurosport commentary box last weekend. Personally, I think that the changes in Moto 3 will be far more significant in exerting/stretching Honda superiority.
Incidentally - hate to be pedantic but your analogy is flawed. Ducati were still running the steel trellis frame in 2007 which was far from being the main strength of the GP7 anyway.
3681411384238612
Well within the rules...yes of course. Buddy, there is a message in my post. That being, rules are arbitrary. The implications, not so obvious, but there nonetheless. The results are not as legitimate as most think. This for example is no different than 20L fuel or engine limit favoring HRC. Sure, u can build a better mouse trap...when the rules are yours. Look at it this way, why didnt we have a rule in 07 and on that all entries must drop a twin-spar chassis and adopt a engine-stress member type chassis? Im just reminding us about the nature of the regulations and how they impact the competition.
The most blatant example of this for me was this imposition of a 750cc cap on capacity for IL4's in WSBk to maintain the hegemony of Ducati. Amazingly few seemed unsettled by this - not least followers of Carl ......' Fogarty who quite simply wouldn't have been a four times World Champion without such a comparative advantage.
I somewhat agree with your point - albeit slightly extreme. Memory can be selective though. Last year the late change to the tyre carcass enforced by Dorna and petitioned by the riders absolutely ...... HRC until July. It was deployment of a NASA like budget into R&D as only Honda can do which turned the situation around. Ironically, on reflection and as I understand it, a gazillion chassis changes later, the solution - or perhaps more specifically, an amelioration of the problem, actually lay in a change to the cush drive costing a couple of Euro's.
Undoubtably, the decrease in fuel capacity will favour Honda - and as you know, I reject the Spanish/Repsol conspiracy theories on the basis that HRC have far more insidious influence on the way this championship is run. As Chops mentioned in another thread, Lin Jarvis said some very interesting things about the implications of the new fuel regulations when he guested in the Eurosport commentary box last weekend. Personally, I think that the changes in Moto 3 will be far more significant in exerting/stretching Honda superiority.
Incidentally - hate to be pedantic but your analogy is flawed. Ducati were still running the steel trellis frame in 2007 which was far from being the main strength of the GP7 anyway.
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
Jumkie
I've said this before but I is worth repeating.
Jum do you actually think the rest of the world is ........? Of course the world is skewed - it has always been so. Of course MGP is skewed - it has always been so. Whom exactly do you think you are aiding by pointing this out every 30 minutes or so? Or do you really just love the sound of your own repetitiveness?
I've said this before but I is worth repeating.
Jum do you actually think the rest of the world is ........? Of course the world is skewed - it has always been so. Of course MGP is skewed - it has always been so. Whom exactly do you think you are aiding by pointing this out every 30 minutes or so? Or do you really just love the sound of your own repetitiveness?
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
Joined Aug 2013
216 Posts | 0+
xx CURVE xx
That's why I have some hope. With Cal's win it or bin it mentality, Ducati have two choices. They can either spend some cash and make the bike reasonably competitive, or they can keep watching Cal tossing the ....... into the gravel trying to make it go faster until they run out of money.
That's why I have some hope. With Cal's win it or bin it mentality, Ducati have two choices. They can either spend some cash and make the bike reasonably competitive, or they can keep watching Cal tossing the ....... into the gravel trying to make it go faster until they run out of money.
14X
Unless Ducati ditch the L shaped engine with the front pots sticking out front the bike will continue to be .... at this level. The position of those cylinders force them to use a larger trail angle and that's what makes it drag its ... like a cruiser type bike. They pull in the rake to compensate but that just makes it skittish. Even if they do change engine design it will take years to catch up. Their ...... either way. Just look at pics of the bike to see how far the headstock is perched out front. That's my thoughts on the bike.
Unless Ducati ditch the L shaped engine with the front pots sticking out front the bike will continue to be .... at this level. The position of those cylinders force them to use a larger trail angle and that's what makes it drag its ... like a cruiser type bike. They pull in the rake to compensate but that just makes it skittish. Even if they do change engine design it will take years to catch up. Their ...... either way. Just look at pics of the bike to see how far the headstock is perched out front. That's my thoughts on the bike.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Arrabbiata1
Well looking at a recent pic of the bike with it front end way out yonder i would say no they aint. In fact bi think they refused to ditch it due to tradition. I dont remember a honda with a 90 up and forward config like the duc ??
3682661384286267
I thought they already had binned the L configuration Rog.
HRC made it work
Well looking at a recent pic of the bike with it front end way out yonder i would say no they aint. In fact bi think they refused to ditch it due to tradition. I dont remember a honda with a 90 up and forward config like the duc ??
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
chopperman
For 2012, just as they had in previous years abandoned the steel trellis frame for the CF stressed member nightmare - and ultimately the twin spar chassis, didn't Ducati then forgo the equally traditional L configuration with its front cylinder bank close to the horizontal instead rotating back closer to 45 degrees? Later that season journalists caught a glimpse of the naked Honda mill revealing that they had as many suspected themselves successfully employed a 90 degree V (or L4 if you prefer), which they still currently run - suggesting that the Ducati's problem had not necessarily simply been configuration.
For 2012, just as they had in previous years abandoned the steel trellis frame for the CF stressed member nightmare - and ultimately the twin spar chassis, didn't Ducati then forgo the equally traditional L configuration with its front cylinder bank close to the horizontal instead rotating back closer to 45 degrees? Later that season journalists caught a glimpse of the naked Honda mill revealing that they had as many suspected themselves successfully employed a 90 degree V (or L4 if you prefer), which they still currently run - suggesting that the Ducati's problem had not necessarily simply been configuration.
Arrabbiata1
I'm not sure but dont think so. This L was just a thing people picked up on to describe it. Its was always a 90 v, just layed over more than other 90 v's.
I'm not sure but dont think so. This L was just a thing people picked up on to describe it. Its was always a 90 v, just layed over more than other 90 v's.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
chopperman
Yeah - I agree and prefer to term it a 90 degree twin, but nonetheless HRC currently run this in the RCV213 and the proddy racer which indicated that it was a viable angle and that Ducati's woes could not simply be attributed to the engine layout.
Yeah - I agree and prefer to term it a 90 degree twin, but nonetheless HRC currently run this in the RCV213 and the proddy racer which indicated that it was a viable angle and that Ducati's woes could not simply be attributed to the engine layout.
