Physical Violence on Track

mylexicon said:

You're right. If Stoner had punched him at 50kph, Randy probably would have crashed. It was very courteous of Stoner to punch him when they were moving at 100kph b/c inertia kept the bike upright.

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Gyroscopic effect saved RDP's life.

Goatboy said:

You punch old ladies in the back? Figures.

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Face is easier.

chopperman said:

Gyroscopic effect saved RDP's life.

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Going to be Ducati's new secret weapon against mysterious front-end crashes.

Talpa said:

I believe extreme measures need to be employed to curve this consistently appalling behavior from Stoner.

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I don't think extreme measures are necessary, and i don't think Stoners behaviour is appaling as much as it is silly. Riders cruising on the racing line is a much bigger issue to deal with.



However i have noticed in the last few years more riders in the smaller classes waving at each other and getting frustrated in their much busier than motogp practice sessions. It isn't good for this aggressive attitude to start filtering down through the sport they way being a .... has filtered down through football to a grass roots level. My brother was in Ecuador teaching recently and when the kids played football they would fall over without any contact from another player, grab the ball and say it was a foul, because that is what they see at the top level, to them that's what a foul is. Bike racing doesn't need things like that

rossiofsky said:

Stoner and other riders should go to the officials for these problems, and talk about it, as this is a serious danger. Yesterday i found the fine a bs punishment, instead they should have given him a warning, and then if it happend again in the future a penalty of some kind. but the money fine especially these amounts is a stupid thing. The other thing is that they should look and ask all riders if they also have this problem as often as Stoner, since this happens more to him.



I prefer to see as least as possible penalties in motogp, and only for repeated incidents by one specifiek person, will it be for agressive riding, or riding slow on the race line, or punching others.

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Yes it is a serious danger and yes he has been to the officials repeatedly. Stoner used to be part of and a regular attendee of the safety commission meetings. However he stopped going citing a lack of action and zero value being placed in anything he said. At the time he said if you are not Rossi then your opinion does not matter. This is the BIG problem. There is a level of bias in the sport that is unfair and dangerous. It is not just the safety commission that you can see this happen just look at Ducati. Stoner, Hayden, Melandri and Capirossi plus all the satellite riders say there is a problem with the bike but nothing happens. Rossi speaks and action is taken. Now for a Rossi fan this is all well and good but when you apply it to safety then it is just plain dangerous.



I know I have harped on about this before but in my opinion this bias that underlines MotoGP is why there are a lack of sponsors and a big reason why Yamaha now have no sponsor.

chopperman said:

Me. Honest

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Tom said:

I don't think extreme measures are necessary, and i don't think Stoners behaviour is appaling as much as it is silly. Riders cruising on the racing line is a much bigger issue to deal with.



However i have noticed in the last few years more riders in the smaller classes waving at each other and getting frustrated in their much busier than motogp practice sessions. It isn't good for this aggressive attitude to start filtering down through the sport they way being a .... has filtered down through football to a grass roots level. My brother was in Ecuador teaching recently and when the kids played football they would fall over without any contact from another player, grab the ball and say it was a foul, because that is what they see at the top level, to them that's what a foul is. Bike racing doesn't need things like that

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Agreed

Well said Tom

Tom said:

I don't think extreme measures are necessary, and i don't think Stoners behaviour is appaling as much as it is silly. Riders cruising on the racing line is a much bigger issue to deal with.



However i have noticed in the last few years more riders in the smaller classes waving at each other and getting frustrated in their much busier than motogp practice sessions. It isn't good for this aggressive attitude to start filtering down through the sport they way being a .... has filtered down through football to a grass roots level. My brother was in Ecuador teaching recently and when the kids played football they would fall over without any contact from another player, grab the ball and say it was a foul, because that is what they see at the top level, to them that's what a foul is. Bike racing doesn't need things like that

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I agree mate

Mental Anarchist said:

Yes it is a serious danger and yes he has been to the officials repeatedly. Stoner used to be part of and a regular attendee of the safety commission meetings. However he stopped going citing a lack of action and zero value being placed in anything he said. At the time he said if you are not Rossi then your opinion does not matter. This is the BIG problem. There is a level of bias in the sport that is unfair and dangerous. It is not just the safety commission that you can see this happen just look at Ducati. Stoner, Hayden, Melandri and Capirossi plus all the satellite riders say there is a problem with the bike but nothing happens. Rossi speaks and action is taken. Now for a Rossi fan this is all well and good but when you apply it to safety then it is just plain dangerous.



I know I have harped on about this before but in my opinion this bias that underlines MotoGP is why there are a lack of sponsors and a big reason why Yamaha now have no sponsor.

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It's without doubt Rossi's opinions carry a lot of weight, probably due to the amount of money and support he brings to the sport. It's not a good thing if other rider concerns are ignored as all should be treated equally in such matters. This is the failing of Paul butler and the safety commission. San Marino should have been stopped last year but it wasn't probably due to tv schedule and income from that. It's a fact that this sport needs tidying up in some areas. Correct me if im wrong but i think Casey only became involve in these meeting after he won his WC ?

Some good points, of course the hardline Boners opinions were more predictable than Stoners Win on the weekend.



My point is that one must consider 'intent'.



Stoner deliberately reached out at speed and punched Randy in the back!! Imagine if Rossi had done this to someone! If it was Stoner receiving it Mickm would be in a mental hospital by now with Baz! And PS would have gone into meltdown.



This was deliberate physical violence attempting to harm the other rider, yes Randy could have fallen off, yes Stoner could have fallen off, and the pair of them could have caused the other rider in the vicinity some issue as well. All from a deliberate act! Not a mistake, but deliberate intent at serious speed. There is no defense for this, and some here truly are the most bias of any fan. Boppers don't even come close!



Adding to this Stoner has a history of such behavior, as recent as Friday practice with Aoyama! Although not as bad as this particular incident, and has gone without serious punishment. Sic was punished for his ....... move in the race, and rightly so, he has a history of this, and a far more fitting punishment was administered, a $5000 fine is hardly going to have an impact on Stoner......Sics move was harsh and stupid, but it wasn't deliberate, and it was in a battle for position.



Of course there is issue with riders going slower in FP/QP etc, however this has always happened and not once have I seen this kind of deliberate physical violence with such intent as to harm the other rider.



I most cases in Football and other sports, if a player is determined to have deliberately tried to harm another outside of the rules they are suspended for a period. Stoner has NO respect for his fellow competitors or regard for their safety, and has proven this time and time again. Comprehensively Booed and geered by the French crowd is but a taste of what he will receive in Italy and the UK, and deservedly so.



A one or two race ban should be implemented, which would have stopped Stoner's egotistical nonsense once and for all, and no doubt would have brought all amount of fire from the heads at HRC-probably why it was never considered



And they say Rossi has too much power, no where near as much as the big 'H' me thinks......

Talpa said:

Some good points, of course the hardline Boners opinions were more predictable than Stoners Win on the weekend.



My point is that one must consider 'intent'.



Stoner deliberately reached out at speed and punched Randy in the back!! Imagine if Rossi had done this to someone! If it was Stoner receiving it Mickm would be in a mental hospital by now with Baz! And PS would have gone into meltdown.



This was deliberate physical violence attempting to harm the other rider, yes Randy could have fallen off, yes Stoner could have fallen off, and the pair of them could have caused the other rider in the vicinity some issue as well. All from a deliberate act! Not a mistake, but deliberate intent at serious speed. There is no defense for this, and some here truly are the most bias of any fan. Boppers don't even come close!



Adding to this Stoner has a history of such behavior, as recent as Friday practice with Aoyama! Although not as bad as this particular incident, and has gone without serious punishment. Sic was punished for his ....... move in the race, and rightly so, he has a history of this, and a far more fitting punishment was administered, a $5000 fine is hardly going to have an impact on Stoner......Sics move was harsh and stupid, but it wasn't deliberate, and it was in a battle for position.



Of course there is issue with riders going slower in FP/QP etc, however this has always happened and not once have I seen this kind of deliberate physical violence with such intent as to harm the other rider.



I most cases in Football and other sports, if a player is determined to have deliberately tried to harm another outside of the rules they are suspended for a period. Stoner has NO respect for his fellow competitors or regard for their safety, and has proven this time and time again. Comprehensively Booed and geered by the French crowd is but a taste of what he will receive in Italy and the UK, and deservedly so.



A one or two race ban should be implemented, which would have stopped Stoner's egotistical nonsense once and for all, and no doubt would have brought all amount of fire from the heads at HRC-probably why it was never considered

And they say Rossi has too much power, no where near as much as the big 'H' me thinks......

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As far as I have read, no Stoner fan has said this was fine and dandy. To a tee they have said it was beyond the pale and that some kind of penalty was in order. Some (Gaz for one) have suggested that the penalty meeted out was insufficient.



Why are you still bleating on

Talpa said:

Some good points, of course the hardline Boners opinions were more predictable than Stoners Win on the weekend.



My point is that one must consider 'intent'.



Stoner deliberately reached out at speed and punched Randy in the back!! Imagine if Rossi had done this to someone! If it was Stoner receiving it Mickm would be in a mental hospital by now with Baz! And PS would have gone into meltdown.



This was deliberate physical violence attempting to harm the other rider, yes Randy could have fallen off, yes Stoner could have fallen off, and the pair of them could have caused the other rider in the vicinity some issue as well. All from a deliberate act! Not a mistake, but deliberate intent at serious speed. There is no defense for this, and some here truly are the most bias of any fan. Boppers don't even come close!



Adding to this Stoner has a history of such behavior, as recent as Friday practice with Aoyama! Although not as bad as this particular incident, and has gone without serious punishment. Sic was punished for his ....... move in the race, and rightly so, he has a history of this, and a far more fitting punishment was administered, a $5000 fine is hardly going to have an impact on Stoner......Sics move was harsh and stupid, but it wasn't deliberate, and it was in a battle for position.



Of course there is issue with riders going slower in FP/QP etc, however this has always happened and not once have I seen this kind of deliberate physical violence with such intent as to harm the other rider.



I most cases in Football and other sports, if a player is determined to have deliberately tried to harm another outside of the rules they are suspended for a period. Stoner has NO respect for his fellow competitors or regard for their safety, and has proven this time and time again. Comprehensively Booed and geered by the French crowd is but a taste of what he will receive in Italy and the UK, and deservedly so.



A one or two race ban should be implemented, which would have stopped Stoner's egotistical nonsense once and for all, and no doubt would have brought all amount of fire from the heads at HRC-probably why it was never considered

And they say Rossi has too much power, no where near as much as the big 'H' me thinks......

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I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I think a one or two race ban would have been to harsh at this time because of the inaction of race direction for similar thing's in the past. They have let such incidents go unpunished and it has escalated to this so therefor i hold them as much responsible. They have acted now and given a warning punishment to set a president. Should anyone indulge in such behaviour in the future then i think a penalty that really stings is warranted. The line has been drawn. Well maybe not as Butler is still at the helm

yamaka46 said:

As far as I have read, no Stoner fan has said this was fine and dandy. To a tee they have said it was beyond the pale and that some kind of penalty was in order. Some (Gaz for one) have suggested that the penalty meeted out was insufficient.



Why are you still bleating on

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Because he has a proven inability to either read or comprehend plain english as has been amply demonstrated in nearly every single post he has ever made on this forum.



He cites Michaelm as evidence of this supposed Stoner bias yet he clearly stated Stoners behaviour was unacceptable.



This is why Talpa has ZERO credibility and is generally regarded as the village idiot. Michaelm is probably one of the least biased guys on here and Talpa should actually start paying attention to what he writes rather than his own skewed perception of what he THINKS he writes.



I believe Pinky was the only one I can recall defending Stoner on this occasion....but he and Talpa are just polar opposites of exactly the same idiotic mentality that unfortunately pervades every one of their intellectually challenged rants.

chopperman said:

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I think a one or two race ban would have been to harsh at this time because of the inaction of race direction for similar thing's in the past. They have let such incidents go unpunished and it has escalated to this so therefor i hold them as much responsible. They have acted now and given a warning punishment to set a president. Should anyone indulge in such behaviour in the future then i think a penalty that really stings is warranted. The line has been drawn. Well maybe not as Butler is still at the helm

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I agree with what you're saying Rog, but even now they still did not act on the guys cruising around on the racing line.

If they had metered out a fine or even a very public warning to any rider doing so, then we may not have this issue down the track.

But RDP got no fine & Bautista who contributed to the incident as well, had no case to answer. The line was drawn with what Stoner did & rightly so.

But they could have also made a statement to the guys having mothers club meetings on the racing line as well.

Mr Squiggle said:

Because he has a proven inability to either read or comprehend plain english as has been amply demonstrated in nearly every single post he has ever made on this forum.



He cites Michaelm as evidence of this supposed Stoner bias yet he clearly stated Stoners behaviour was unacceptable.



This is why Talpa has ZERO credibility and is generally regarded as the village idiot. Michaelm is probably one of the least biased guys on here and Talpa should actually start paying attention to what he writes rather than his own skewed perception of what he THINKS he writes.



I believe Pinky was the only one I can recall defending Stoner on this occasion....but he and Talpa are just polar opposites of exactly the same idiotic mentality that unfortunately pervades every one of their intellectually challenged rants.

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Well put

Frizzle said:

Well put

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I believe TALPA is actually an acronym for



Total Absence of Logic Perception and Analysis

chopperman said:

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I think a one or two race ban would have been to harsh at this time because of the inaction of race direction for similar thing's in the past. They have let such incidents go unpunished and it has escalated to this so therefor i hold them as much responsible. They have acted now and given a warning punishment to set a president. Should anyone indulge in such behaviour in the future then i think a penalty that really stings is warranted. The line has been drawn. Well maybe not as Butler is still at the helm

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That's what i think and hope too. but again maybe they became a bit oblige to fine him because he did it to De Puniet and it was in front of Franch fans.

Mr Squiggle said:

He cites Michaelm as evidence of this supposed Stoner bias yet he clearly stated Stoners behaviour was unacceptable.

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More to the point, stoner has said he deserved the fine, and that he is glad the officials have at last acted on a safety issue .



I make no claim to be unbiased, I am a stoner fan. I will concede to arguments I can't refute though, not commonly a problem with talpa since he presents none, argumentum ad hominem usually being employed from the start.



The stewards are in a bind because of lack of consistency they have shown in the past. As I have repeatedly said, rossi is both statistically and in reality the safest rider in history, quite possibly related to his overall quality as a rider. However one particular incident, the gibernau pass, involved both intent and actual danger, orders of magnitude greater than stoner's silly punch, which surely even talpa cannot believe was intended to cause randy to crash or do him physical harm, and had very little chance of doing so. Even if butler says it is a contact sport, actually striking out cannot be allowed though. Stoner probably should have been fined for the trackside waving at jerez, but wasn't for reasons obvious to all but a few, in that much worse had been done to him, in a move that was whilst not deliberately dangerous ill-advised to say the least.



Both cal crutchlow and gpone, not noted for their australian-ness, whilst not supporting stoner's action, gpone called it improper and arrogant (a fair call) but not particularly dangerous, have totally supported stoner's attitude, gpone having gone much further than I would and called for harsher penalties for de puniet than for stoner, citing the bubba shobert incident.



I don't support the lorenzo led thing about hard passing, and I don't know how much stoner is involved with that. Stoner as far as I know has not complained about hard passing in general, complaining about 2 particular passes from rossi in which he was not in control of his bike, demonstrably so on the second occasion, and a pass by simoncelli in the previous race similar to the one which resulted in dani's collarbone fracture. Perhaps talpa's problem with stoner is him being correct.



What I haven't seen concerning stoner are complaints from other riders rather than talpa that he rides dangerously, or indeed evidence of him being generally unpopular with the riders.

Talpa said:

I believe extreme measures need to be employed to curve this consistently appalling behavior from Stoner. With all the talk of dangerous riding and the focus on Sic, for me Stoner was by far the most dangerous man out on track at Le Mans.

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This actually had me laughing out loud. Yes, it did. Hahahaha.



"extreme measures" hahahaha. The great thing is you are serious. And that's what makes shitting on you so much fun.





Stoner not only should have punched him on the shoulder, but took off his helmet and dropped kick his ass. Plowing into a guy at speed or becoming a brick wall for somebody at speed will result in the same ....... thing you moron. Race direction are weak, and they suck dick as much as you do Talps.



I'm amuse you think Stoner actually "punched" Dpunt. Hahaha. Oh, the horror, the violence!



BTW, I have some rare footage of Talps last "fight". LINK

michaelm said:

I make no claim to be unbiased, I am a stoner fan. I will concede to arguments I can't refute though, usually not a problem with talpa since he presents none, argumentum ad hominem usually being employed from the start.

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I never said you were unbiased....just one of the least biased



I think everyone has some degree of personal bias when stating their own case, such is human nature...but with our old buddy Talpa you could cite 1000 examples of Rossi/Stoner incidents and confidently predict 100% of the time which side of the argument he will be on....which is why I find his cries of hypocrisy to be so laughable.



He does actually provide a good deal of entertainment on the forum and I bear no malice towards him....but I seriously have to question his ability to comprehend the written word as he has made an absolute ass of himself on more than one occasion and continues to do so.