Physical Violence on Track

Gaz said:

My heart was in my throat and I though I was going to get killed.





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Gaz

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I think casey is either being a drama queen or trying to justify his bad temper out burst here. I suspect he was more upset about scrapping a hot lap than thinking he was going to be killed. If casey had time to move right then left in an attempt to get past RDP he had time to brake. We have seen casey have problems with other riders on track time and time again. I don't see any other rider's having such issues. As i said i welcome the fact that he has been punished and think that should now be the end of it but should he re-offend and that includes kicking out at other riders he should face a race ban and huge fine. This type of behaviour has no place on track.



And Lex, punching someone in the arm is one thing, punching them while doing 100kph (stoners speed figure) is something else. Can you imagine what stoner's reaction and his fan would have been if the roles were reversed.

Two things:



1. I suspect Stoner's fine (like Simoncelli's ride through) was meant by way of warning. He has a history of this sort of thing. This was probably a reminder that he needs to cut out the antics, or tone them down. There's plenty of fist-waving and finger-pointing goes on on track during practice, though selective memories mean that we only remember when one particular rider was involved. This was a reminder to everyone to keep it within limits.



2. Of course, if some stupid old biddie in a Morris Minor pulls out directly in front of us while we're "making progress" we all react perfectly calmly and rationally, empathizing with the nice old lady. Right?

chopperman said:

I think casey is either being a drama queen or trying to justify his bad temper out burst here. I suspect he was more upset about scrapping a hot lap than thinking he was going to be killed. If casey had time to move right then left in an attempt to get past RDP he had time to brake. We have seen casey have problems with other riders on track time and time again. I don't see any other rider's having such issues. As i said i welcome the fact that he has been punished and think that should now be the end of it but should he re-offend and that includes kicking out at other riders he should face a race ban and huge fine. This type of behaviour has no place on track.



And Lex, punching someone in the arm is one thing, punching them while doing 100kph (stoners speed figure) is something else. Can you imagine what stoner's reaction and his fan would have been if the roles were reversed.

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I have seen it now and the punch was a little harder than I had thought from reports and more than an exaggerated gesture; he definitely should have been fined.



I don't agree about the hot lap business though either in qp or warm up; if you look at the video of the warm-up incident bautista and de puniet were lollygagging together on the racing line, then de puniet moved and bautista didn't, leaving stoner very little room to manouevre; stoner said in the extended post-race interview that it isn't apparent in the video but he was less than 2 feet from the wall, and as I said earlier your hard charging and admirable compatriot cal crutchlow supported his attitude if not his action.



I trust he won't actually physically hit someone again, and if he does he deserves points loss or suspension as you say. i am not sure hitting randy is a good idea in general anyway, as someone elsewhere said on outward appearnce he is rather more imposing than stoner.



Hopefully race direction will also do something about the slow on the racing line thing, stoner has complained for years without anything being done, and it is out and out dangerous, and there is no reason to suspect his concern for both his own safety and the safety of others is not genuine.

Kropotkin said:

Two things:



1. I suspect Stoner's fine (like Simoncelli's ride through) was meant by way of warning. He has a history of this sort of thing. This was probably a reminder that he needs to cut out the antics, or tone them down. There's plenty of fist-waving and finger-pointing goes on on track during practice, though selective memories mean that we only remember when one particular rider was involved. This was a reminder to everyone to keep it within limits.



2. Of course, if some stupid old biddie in a Morris Minor pulls out directly in front of us while we're "making progress" we all react perfectly calmly and rationally, empathizing with the nice old lady. Right?

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Krop, as usual a rational head amidst the hyperbole.



From your sources (I am aware that you did not attend this one) has there been discussion or mention as to whether of the 'cause' of the problem whereby we have dawdling riders on racing/fast lines will be addressed in the near term?



For me, like you I see a warning or moreso a message from Race Direction in both penalties issued, although I am not so certain that the message will be received without addressing the overall causes.











Gaz

Kropotkin said:

Two things:



1. I suspect Stoner's fine (like Simoncelli's ride through) was meant by way of warning. He has a history of this sort of thing. This was probably a reminder that he needs to cut out the antics, or tone them down. There's plenty of fist-waving and finger-pointing goes on on track during practice, though selective memories mean that we only remember when one particular rider was involved. This was a reminder to everyone to keep it within limits.



2. Of course, if some stupid old biddie in a Morris Minor pulls out directly in front of us while we're "making progress" we all react perfectly calmly and rationally, empathizing with the nice old lady. Right?

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Agreed.



I am still not sure whether the simoncelli incident in isolation merited the penalty, or what rule was utilised in imposing it, but more than a few riders have made recent complaints about him. It sounds like he was being led to the hrc woodshed after the race for additional punishment anyway.

Gaz said:

From your sources (I am aware that you did not attend this one) has there been discussion or mention as to whether of the 'cause' of the problem whereby we have dawdling riders on racing/fast lines will be addressed in the near term?

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It gets talked about but there's not a lot you can do.

I'll throw this one out...



One of the hardest questions in any form of jurisprudence is the appropriate penalty, making the punishment fit the crime.



Casey has shown his temper a little.



In a lot of ways I don't blame him, all those years suffering the barbs thrown at him about the unbeatable nature of his Ducati, only to discover this year that it was a heap of ..... and Casey rode around its shortcomings.



He makes his race plans by going fast in the pre race sessions, getting the bike hot and fast and consistent. He tends to measure himself a lot pre race, no sandbagging or dawdling, he just gets on it and goes. This is his third pole of the year.



He is looking at a championship and this championship will make him the only double championship winner (except Rossi) since Doohan. With the worlds press and the yellow brigade perched like vultures he is under a bit of pressure.



His response is not to quibble cry and fall like Gibbers or Max, he is fired up and determined.



And he winds the agro up a little, or a lot.



This is his first time, he get a symbolic fine, but maybe it serves as the warning.



Just maybe the punishment fits the crime, he did the wrong thing, but this serves as a big reminder that it is not acceptable.



It also brings to the fore other behavior such as staying on the race line whilst adjust the bike, whilst not fined or sanctioned in any way a big danger nonetheless.



If it were any other rider would this thread even exist?

Talpa said:

"French MotoGP pole starter, Casey Stoner, has been fined 5000 Euros by Race Direction for lashing out at Randy de Puniet during morning warm-up at Le Mans.



After almost hitting the back of a slow-moving de Puniet on a straight, Stoner gave the Frenchman a 'what are you doing?' punch on the shoulder as he pulled alongside.



The cruising de Puniet had looked back shortly before Stoner arrived, then moved to the right, straight into the path of the fast-moving Stoner.



de Puniet either didn't see Stoner, thought he was heading to his left or that he was far enough in front of the Australian.



Either way, Stoner clearly felt that de Puniet had acted dangerously, hence his anger, but Race Direction decided that taking physical action was a greater crime. de Puniet seems not to have been punished.



Despite the incident, Repsol Honda rider Stoner was fastest by half a second during the warm-up session and will be chasing his second victory of the season this afternoon."







I believe extreme measures need to be employed to curve this consistently appalling behavior from Stoner. With all the talk of dangerous riding and the focus on Sic, for me Stoner was by far the most dangerous man out on track at Le Mans.

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What if Stoner ran into the back of De puniet at speed, someone is going to get injured or killed, extreme measures need to be taken for riders going slow on the on the race line. These are not weekend warriors at your local trackday, there professionals riding pinnacle of two-wheel motorsports.

Andy Roo said:

This is his first time, he get a symbolic fine, but maybe it serves as the warning.

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No it isn't.



He once got a fine of $1000 for, of all things given this current distraction, being found to have impeded Dani Pedrosa by being on the race line during practice whilst not at near to race pace. I believe but can be corrected easily (google is a friend ) that it may have been Turkey or Estoril.



Not throwing it there to combat your statement Andy but to show that he has now received fines for actions that others seem to be excused from receiving, and also to highlight the he has changed as he learnt from that offence and has not been accused of the action since and has actually become a 'campaigner' againts his once action.















Gaz

Gaz said:

No it isn't.



He once got a fine of $1000 for, of all things given this current distraction, being found to have impeded Dani Pedrosa by being on the race line during practice whilst not at near to race pace. I believe but can be corrected easily (google is a friend

) that it may have been Turkey or Estoril.



Not throwing it there to combat your statement Andy but to show that he has now received fines for actions that others seem to be excused from receiving, and also to highlight the he has changed as he learnt from that offence and has not been accused of the action since and has actually become a 'campaigner' againts his once action.















Gaz

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I stand humbly corrected !



They must have had a special enforcement on going slow on the racing line that day...

Andy Roo said:

I stand humbly corrected !



They must have had a special enforcement on going slow on the racing line that day...

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Theory, and I emphasise theory (well suspicion actually) is that it was because of whom the impeded rider was and how his 'representatives' acted, more than any actual desire to penalise. But again, that is the theory















Gaz

Gaz said:

He once got a fine of $1000 for, of all things given this current distraction, being found to have impeded Dani Pedrosa by being on the race line during practice whilst not at near to race pace. I believe but can be corrected easily (google is a friend

) that it may have been Turkey or Estoril.

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Gaz, it was at Valenica in 2006; one or two other things happened that weekend, I believe, so you can understand why it's not often remembered.



It was during qualifying, Pedrosa was on a hot lap, and Stoner baulked quite him badly. Dani shook his fist at Stoner, and wasn't happy about it all. Afterwards, Stoner was quite contrite, and humbly apologised.

Gaz said:

Not throwing it there to combat your statement Andy but to show that he has now received fines for actions that others seem to be excused from receiving, and also to highlight the he has changed as he learnt from that offence and has not been accused of the action since and has actually become a 'campaigner' againts his once action.

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Exactly.

Kropotkin said:

Two things:



1. I suspect Stoner's fine (like Simoncelli's ride through) was meant by way of warning. He has a history of this sort of thing. This was probably a reminder that he needs to cut out the antics, or tone them down. There's plenty of fist-waving and finger-pointing goes on on track during practice, though selective memories mean that we only remember when one particular rider was involved. This was a reminder to everyone to keep it within limits.



2. Of course, if some stupid old biddie in a Morris Minor pulls out directly in front of us while we're "making progress" we all react perfectly calmly and rationally, empathizing with the nice old lady. Right?

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Exactly. Who amongst those screaming for blood hasn't experienced this emotion?

Gaz said:

As reported elsewhere



Also pinched this comment from Gavin Emmett's twitter...........

Superb comment from CS27 about €5,000 fine.

"At least Race Direction made a decision, which is rare" !!

EDIT: And more



“That's 5,000 well spent – the Australian rider declared – because at least it means the Race Direction is taking some action. I'm OK with Randy De Puniet; we spoke during the meeting with Race Direction, and Randy apologized to me. He said it was his fault and asked Race Direction not to fine me. I was wrong to give him a punch, but imagine going at 200 Km/h and finding someone in front of you going 100 Km/h slower. I didn't have any room to go around, because there was a wall next to me. My heart was in my throat and I though I was going to get killed."



Source: http://gpone.com/index.php/en/news/35-in-evidenza/3720-stoner-i-5000-euro-meglio-spesi.html

















Gaz

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I have ro totally agree with this:



"“That's 5,000 well spent – the Australian rider declared – because at least it means the Race Direction is taking some action. I'm OK with Randy De Puniet; we spoke during the meeting with Race Direction, and Randy apologized to me. He said it was his fault and asked Race Direction not to fine me. I was wrong to give him a punch" in the words of the Bard - NFBD - CS is showing some personality - keep it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



ImO - the rest is drama Queen, but that said the fines/ penalties for cruising around, making adjustments or anything other than appropriate pace riding anywhere near the fast line should be punished with at least 10X this severity - up to and including loss of start position

Keshav said:

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Exactly. Who amongst those screaming for blood hasn't experienced this emotion?

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You punch old ladies in the back? Figures.

Stoner and other riders should go to the officials for these problems, and talk about it, as this is a serious danger. Yesterday i found the fine a bs punishment, instead they should have given him a warning, and then if it happend again in the future a penalty of some kind. but the money fine especially these amounts is a stupid thing. The other thing is that they should look and ask all riders if they also have this problem as often as Stoner, since this happens more to him.



I prefer to see as least as possible penalties in motogp, and only for repeated incidents by one specifiek person, will it be for agressive riding, or riding slow on the race line, or punching others.

Badfish said:

What if Stoner ran into the back of De puniet at speed, someone is going to get injured or killed, extreme measures need to be taken for riders going slow on the on the race line. These are not weekend warriors at your local trackday, there professionals riding pinnacle of two-wheel motorsports.

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Yeah and why were throwing in the what if's. What if RDP fell off his bike after being physically assaulted while doing 100kph and died ? Both were in the wrong, both posed a serious danger to other riders. One was a mistake and the other was deliberate.

Two wrongs don't make a right !

Keshav said:

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Exactly. Who amongst those screaming for blood hasn't experienced this emotion?

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Me. Honest

Corr said:

Don't forget Sic and Dani weren't the only two to make contact with each other. Dovi & Jorge touched as well resulting in tyre marks on leathers!

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More accurately - Jorge rammed Dovi. Jorge did this to Sic last year, and because he recently tried to spin it and blame Marco, he has highlighted his own propensity for doing it to others. Marco may have a history of overly aggressive behavior but it was irrelevant to the incident in question.



Jorge seems to be doing this with a unique sense of entitlement and I believe that makes him the most dangerous man on track right now.

chopperman said:

And Lex, punching someone in the arm is one thing, punching them while doing 100kph (stoners speed figure) is something else. Can you imagine what stoner's reaction and his fan would have been if the roles were reversed.

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You're right. If Stoner had punched him at 50kph, Randy probably would have crashed. It was very courteous of Stoner to punch him when they were moving at 100kph b/c inertia kept the bike upright.