Phillip Island Test 2017

Gaz · Feb 18, 2017

michaelm said:
I haven't agreed with it either. I perhaps may have been waiting to see how he goes when the racing starts or he has a season under his belt (let alone 2 world championships) to make any evaluation of him at all, let alone his mental toughness, given he is a rookie and this is only testing, in which mental toughness if it does have any influence in general is presumably less important, unless you want to call Casey Stoner incredibly mentally tough, since he still excels at testing not having raced for 4 seasons.

Much the same Mike, and as I have said previously, for every rookie I believe that they should all receive guaranteed 2 year contracts as year 1 should be no more than a learning year with year 2 when we expect improved results.

Whilst this discussion has drawn to Rins, I personally am also keeping an eye on Zarco and Folger who have performed extremely well in testing thus far as to me, they will be a good marker for the likes of Rins, but also for me the likes of Miller who should (IMO) be more highly competitive as he is fit and on an updated Honda.

Whilst I suspect the battle up top will be fought hard and somewhat publically (it having already started with Vinales calling out Marquez for following) I suspect that the rookie battle may well be the better battle as (with no disrespect to Tito here), this year we have a number of new riders to the field, together with older returns (Abrahams).

Testing is just testing and it has been good to see the numbers of laps ridden by some of these riders (Miller for example has ridden 90 or so each day at the island with no gravel trap visits) whilst it is said that Folger and Zarco also did large numbers of laps (not seen Rins output).

I actually look forward to this year as whilst I suspect that the usual suspects will be at play, I also reckon we will see a few upsets of the applecarts throughout the year .......... well, that is the hope anyway

Gaz · Feb 18, 2017

Some KTM pics

JohnnyKnockdown · Feb 18, 2017

michaelm said:
I haven't agreed with it either. I perhaps may have been waiting to see how he goes when the racing starts or he has a season under his belt (let alone 2 world championships) to make any evaluation of him at all, including his mental toughness, given he is a rookie and this is only testing, in which mental toughness if it does have any influence in general is presumably less important, unless you want to call Casey Stoner incredibly mentally tough, since he still excels at testing not having raced for 4 seasons.

I do agree if that was your point that calls on Rins being uncompetitive on the basis of early testing times were premature, since he showed decent pace later in the PI test, comparable with Iannone (EDIT better actually, although Iannone reputedly never did a run on a soft tyre) who is a dry race winner on a bike other than a Honda or Yamaha.

Btw, I have defended you against personal attacks particularly those in regard to your family/family situation based on off-forum knowledge, but if you wish not to be called on doing nothing except take pots-shots at other posters you could perhaps consider making posts which are other than pot-shots at other posters.

I made no point about Rins. I dont know or care to know who he is, what he rides, or what class he's in. Im just commenting on jpaids observation of him. My comment was that I found it odd that you or Gaz did not come to his defense when you both took such affront to another rider being accused of the same thing.
Dorna has fit to provide us with a series in which 4 bikes are relevant and 4 bikes get 95% of the coverage. Constructing an opinion about riders outside the top 6 is almost pointless to me. What we think we know about them will never be validated unless they were to be given a factory ride. Vinales is currently a good example of that.
As far as pot shots, pay no mind to to JPeniS and I. He's just mad because I wouldn't date him after his gender transformation surgery. We'll work it out. Im currently trying to hook him up with Moto Vudu but MV is playing hard to get.

Gaz · Feb 18, 2017

JohnnyKnockdown said:
As far as pot shots, pay no mind to to JPeniS and I. He's just mad because I wouldn't date him after his gender transformation surgery. We'll work it out. Im currently trying to hook him up with Moto Vudu but MV is playing hard to get.

.... that reads like an idea for a bloody (pun not intended) reality show

As for your point about bikes, totally agree, if you are not on one of six or so bikes than you are at a disadvantage and it will take something special for you to win a race, a championship being well out of the question.

Once again though, I have defended a few riders from the claims to which you take offence as for me (serious hat on) it is laughable to think that these people, at the top of their game are not mentally tough, the real aspect (and that which greatly interests me) is the way each applies that toughness and turns it into race excellence.

BTW, the only reason I even responded was your bringing us into it by calling for us to defend due to your misplaced belief that we have only defended one rider from such accusations. If I felt the other post was worthy of response, I would have (so read into that, which you will)

michaelm · Feb 18, 2017

JohnnyKnockdown said:
I made no point about Rins. I dont know or care to know who he is, what he rides, or what class he's in. Im just commenting on jpaids observation of him. My comment was that I found it odd that you or Gaz did not come to his defense when you both took such affront to another rider being accused of the same thing.
Dorna has fit to provide us with a series in which 4 bikes are relevant and 4 bikes get 95% of the coverage. Constructing an opinion about riders outside the top 6 is almost pointless to me. What we think we know about them will never be validated unless they were to be given a factory ride. Vinales is currently a good example of that.
As far as pot shots, pay no mind to to JPeniS and I. He's just mad because I wouldn't date him after his gender transformation surgery. We'll work it out. Im currently trying to hook him up with Moto Vudu but MV is playing hard to get.

Again, I wasn't very interested in moto 2 last season and like Gaz didn't watch much of it. I am aware that Rins crashed out of some races as JPS posted but I have no opinion concerning why he did so since I have never watched the races concerned, and hence have no basis for disputing JPS.

I have seen Jorge Lorenzo and Casey Stoner win 3 and 2 premier class world titles respectively as well as the 4th and 5th highest number of races in the history of premier class bike racing, nearly all of which I watched, against considerable on-track opposition and in the face of off-track vilification, and hence feel I can defend them against such vilification from a somewhat informed perspective.

As I said, I already had considered Rins along with Folger to have performed more than creditably in the PI test, somewhat surprisingly for me since I hadn't formed the impression from my limited knowledge of them in moto2 that they were as good as their performances in the test indicated.

if you must play games with JPS on a bike racing thread, could you try to be a little more amusing?

JohnnyKnockdown · Feb 18, 2017

Gaz said:
.... that reads like an idea for a bloody (pun not intended) reality show

This place is a reality show. It's those that don't realize it that have the biggest problems

JohnnyKnockdown · Feb 18, 2017

michaelm said:
if you must play games with JPS on a bike racing thread, could you try to be a little more amusing?

Maybe I'll stick to Uccio and Trump jokes. Doesn't look like they ever wear out around here

michaelm · Feb 18, 2017

JohnnyKnockdown said:
Maybe I'll stick to Uccio and Trump jokes. Doesn't look like they ever wear out around here

Both guys actually are jokes imo, and I am less inclined to ignore Uccio since he proudly revealed his authorship of the PI 2015 conspiracy theory, but i strongly doubt you will find any evidence that I have approved or participated in any peurile gay jokes about him and Valentino whatever effort you care to expend. I make no anyway pretense anyway that I am other than a fanboy like everyone else myself, and hence am very definitely more inclined to defend Stoner than other riders, although in my biased opinion he merits such defence because he was vilified (mainly by Rossi fanboys) more than any rider of anywhere near his stature in gp bike racing history.

Dr No · Feb 19, 2017

michaelm said:
Both guys actually are jokes imo, and I am less inclined to ignore Uccio since he proudly revealed his authorship of the PI 2015 conspiracy theory, but i strongly doubt you will find any evidence that I have approved or participated in any peurile gay jokes about him and Valentino whatever effort you care to expend.. I make no pretence that I am other than a fanboy like everyone else myself anyway, and hence am very definitely more inclined to defend Stoner than other tiders, although in my biased opinion he merits such defence because he was vilified (mainly by Rossi fanboys) more than any rider of anywhere near his stature in gp bike racing history.

Vilified?
Max Biaggi

michaelm · Feb 19, 2017

Dr No said:
Vilified?
Max Biaggi

Yes Max was vilified to a similar degree, but didn't win 2 premier class titles or 38 premier class races, more than Rossi won over the same time period. I know he won many other titles, and cheered him all the way when he won the super bike title, having to some extent gone along with the initial Rossi vs Biaggi narrative because of his previous contretemps with Doohan. Stoner's treatment led me to re-evaluate things in regard to Max.

Keshav · Feb 19, 2017

Gaz said:
That explains a lot actually JKD, but each their own I suppose

BTW, would that have been room 2 at the blue oyster?

Sunday morning over here man so have better things to do than get involved in a pissing contest between you two but will say outright that as I have done with claims of JL (not just Aussies, do keep up dear boy), mental toughness is not an issue for top flight athletes as they are all mentally tough (funnily enough, sometimes this toughness may also be a weakness in that it prohibits thought outside of their box/circle).

With Rins, I reserve judgement as I have not seen a lot of Moto2 over the last few years but as I have said many times before and will say it again for the kindergarten class ........... how one performs in another class is often irrelevant as sometimes they gel brilliantly with a category/bike/combination of all in such a manner that they become something else ..........

See JKD, I prefer not to comment on things that I just have not enough knowledge of on which to comment, thus Rins is in that category, just as would AMA racing be if someone asked.

Would you like that in another colour or is that crayon ok?

The topic was actually the PI test but as seems the way, we have taken a sidetrack as the pissing continues (just be careful not to splash your own shoes man, the smell lingers)

Yeah - I don't generally try to make hard predictions since Aoyama moved into MotoGp. I really thought he was brilliant on the 250s but it didn't translate over to the big bikes.

Little Walter · Feb 19, 2017

Gaz said:
Did you just create an 'alternative fact' with this suggestion?

Nope. The Boppers already have that market cornered.

Little Walter · Feb 19, 2017

JohnnyKnockdown said:
I made no point about Rins. I dont know or care to know who he is, what he rides, or what class he's in. Im just commenting on jpaids observation of him. My comment was that I found it odd that you or Gaz did not come to his defense when you both took such affront to another rider being accused of the same thing.
Dorna has fit to provide us with a series in which 4 bikes are relevant and 4 bikes get 95% of the coverage. Constructing an opinion about riders outside the top 6 is almost pointless to me. What we think we know about them will never be validated unless they were to be given a factory ride. Vinales is currently a good example of that.
As far as pot shots, pay no mind to to JPeniS and I. He's just mad because I wouldn't date him after his gender transformation surgery. We'll work it out. Im currently trying to hook him up with Moto Vudu but MV is playing hard to get.

Of course you don't care, or know anything about, Rins. Maybe you would if you weren't so busy trying to be the self appointed house insult comic.

Disagree about the worthiness of making observations regarding riders other than those on the 6 main factory bikes. Making informed observations, deductions, and speculating about riders and their potential, is 99% of what drives a forum like this. Speculation about riders moving up to the main stage, is for keen observers, totally fascinating, much in the same way it is for people who bet on horse racing. If you ever spend time in the company of serious gamblers, you'll see how closely they observe every little facet of what makes a horse and jockey competitive, down to the most miniscule details, and those who watch closely and glean what is meaningful (without ever throwing a leg over a horse) tend to be successful gamblers. Consideration of what goes on outside the arena of the top 6 riders on factory bikes is hardly "pointless" to a dedicated follower of the sport.

AJV80 · Feb 19, 2017

michaelm said:
Yes Max was vilified to a similar degree, but didn't win 2 premier class titles or 38 premier class races, more than Rossi won over the same time period. I know he won many other titles, and cheered him all the way when he won the super bike title, having to some extent gone along with the initial Rossi vs Biaggi narrative because of his previous contretemps with Doohan. Stoner's treatment led me to re-evaluate things in regard to Max.

Max was a great rider and I was always a Yamaha fan so would have loved to see him winning, but I never really liked how he came across in his post race press conferences, when Doohan was beating him he had an almost pre-programmed excuse being that he was on a Yamaha and always highlighting that he was the first Yamaha home. He was dead right, no argument that the Yamaha wasn't as competitive as the Honda but it just seemed a bit of a kick in the teeth to his team, deserved or not .. I dunno maybe it was his way of trying to motivate Yamaha to give him better equipment or just something that made him feel better when he brought it up. I mean no disrespect to Max with this comment and I was only young when I was watching the sport then but I felt this made him come across as a bit of a sore loser.

In my opinion only Max gave me the impression that he felt when Doohan hung up the leathers it would be his turn to assume the mantle as top dog in the paddock and that his time had finally come to reign supreme. Thats what was so satisfying for me about seeing Rossi come onto the scene and upset his party, Max wasn't happy and looking back I can see Rossi knew this and really played to it.

I still remember hearing the same pre-programmed excuse about him being on the Yamaha when he was beaten by Rossi. Maybe Max indirectly eluding to the fact that Rossi was only winning because he was on he Honda was part of VR's motivation to make the move to Yamaha. Thats why I can completely understand when so many people enjoyed seeing Rossi lose his .... when Marquez was beating him and getting all under his skin. I guess there is just something satisfying about seeing a sore loser lose.

Keshav · Feb 19, 2017

AJV80 said:
Max was a great rider but I never really liked how he came across in his post race press conferences, when Doohan was beating him he had an almost pre-programmed excuse being that he was on a Yamaha and always highlighting that he was the first Yamaha home. He was dead right, no argument that the Yamaha wasn't as competitive as the Honda but it just seemed a bit of a kick in the teeth to his team, deserved or not .. I dunno maybe it was his way of trying to motivate Yamaha to give him better equipment or just something that made him feel better when he brought it up. I mean no disrespect to Max with this comment and I was only young when I was watching the sport then but I felt this made him come across as a bit of a sore loser.

In my opinion only Max gave me the impression that he felt when Doohan hung up the leathers it would be his turn to assume the mantle as top dog in the paddock and that his time had finally come to reign supreme. Thats what was so satisfying for me about seeing Rossi come onto the scene and upset his party, Max wasn't happy and looking back I can see Rossi knew this and really played to it.

I still remember hearing the same pre-programmed excuse about him being on the Yamaha when he was beaten by Rossi. Maybe Max indirectly eluding to the fact that Rossi was only winning because he was on he Honda was part of VR's motivation to make the move to Yamaha. Thats why I can completely understand when so many people enjoyed seeing Rossi lose his .... when Marquez was beating him and getting all under his skin. I guess there is just something satisfying about seeing a sore loser lose.

Max was easy to dislike. Too easy. He wasn't a gracious loser and that stupid goatee made him look like a tiny comic book villain. But fact is - he was a really talented racer. We all of us - hold them up to a very high bar when it comes to off track behavior, but in the end, they're just flawed human beings who work and sacrifice so much for the dream of winning. I totally relate to that feeling of, "It's my time to rise to the top". Just human nature. Since leaving MotoGp - I've heard so many great things about Max and I can't help but have a kind of soft spot for him.

Theo · Feb 19, 2017

Keshav said:
Max was easy to dislike. Too easy. He wasn't a gracious loser and that stupid goatee made him look like a tiny comic book villain. But fact is - he was a really talented racer. We all of us - hold them up to a very high bar when it comes to off track behavior, but in the end, they're just flawed human beings who work and sacrifice so much for the dream of winning. I totally relate to that feeling of, "It's my time to rise to the top". Just human nature. Since leaving MotoGp - I've heard so many great things about Max and I can't help but have a kind of soft spot for him.

I've never liked Biaggi, he was an arsehole when he was winning and an even worse one when he lost, admittedly he was a very good rider bit like Pedrosa really, maybe they should have stayed in the 250 class.

On another note I was very impressed with Zarco, if he keeps riding like that I can see him going places in a year or 3.

Also has anyone noticed that in Moto2 as like the premier there are 2 number 44's, Asparagus and Oliviera, I wonder what will happen when thy both ride in the premier group? TBO I'd prefer a Portugese over some bloody ....

JohnnyKnockdown · Feb 19, 2017

Little Walter said:
Of course you don't care, or know anything about, Rins. Maybe you would if you weren't so busy trying to be the self appointed house insult comic.

Disagree about the worthiness of making observations regarding riders other than those on the 6 main factory bikes. Making informed observations, deductions, and speculating about riders and their potential, is 99% of what drives a forum like this. Speculation about riders moving up to the main stage, is for keen observers, totally fascinating, much in the same way it is for people who bet on horse racing. If you ever spend time in the company of serious gamblers, you'll see how closely they observe every little facet of what makes a horse and jockey competitive, down to the most miniscule details, and those who watch closely and glean what is meaningful (without ever throwing a leg over a horse) tend to be successful gamblers. Consideration of what goes on outside the arena of the top 6 riders on factory bikes is hardly "pointless" to a dedicated follower of the sport.

Thanks Literal Wallie. I wasnt aware of the forums purpose. Must have been the name that threw me off.

Theo · Feb 19, 2017

JohnnyKnockdown said:
Thanks Literal Wallie. I wasnt aware of the forums purpose. Must have been the name that threw me off.

You are some conceited little .... aren't you, why don't you either go play with yourself or alternatively, just go and top yourself!

JohnnyKnockdown · Feb 19, 2017

Theo said:
You are some conceited little .... aren't you, why don't you either go play with yourself or alternatively, just go and top yourself!

That's an arrogant statement buddy. Are you trying to turn this place into a Theocracy?

michaelm · Feb 19, 2017

Theo said:
You are some conceited little .... aren't you, why don't you either go play with yourself or alternatively, just go and top yourself!

It is only an internet forum.

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