Pedro Acosta

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p4p1 said:
Alright guys better than Binder,
MM
Fabio
Pecco
Martin
Acosta
Pedrosa - guy turns up once or twice a year and beats everyone on a KTM.
Stoner - see what he did in his 2 days of testing Ducati. No doubt he could do it again if he wanted.
Mir

Guys who are at a similar or same level
Mav
Aleix
Rins
Toprak
Bastianinni
Digi
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I don't mind the list. Brave to put it up as we all have opinions and only our own is correct 😉
I agree though, Binder is good but not among the top riders. Acosta is definitely well better.
 
warthog1 said:
I don't mind the list. Brave to put it up as we all have opinions and only our own is correct 😉
I agree though, Binder is good but not among the top riders. Acosta is definitely well better.
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I have a hard time judging the current talent due to how superior the Ducati is. Do you think Peeco or Martin could win a championship on the Aprilia or KTM the last few years? I don't. Next year will tell us a lot with Martin and Bezz going to Aprilia and Beast on a ktm. I don't think any of the current riders are on the level of the former "aliens." Marc is proving that by being the only one who can compete regularly against the gp24. None of these guys could compete in the former years of JLo, Marc, Casey, and the old yellow man. I don't think they could beat Pedrosa.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
I have a hard time judging the current talent due to how superior the Ducati is. Do you think Peeco or Martin could win a championship on the Aprilia or KTM the last few years? I don't. Next year will tell us a lot with Martin and Bezz going to Aprilia and Beast on a ktm. I don't think any of the current riders are on the level of the former "aliens." Marc is proving that by being the only one who can compete regularly against the gp24. None of these guys could compete in the former years of JLo, Marc, Casey, and the old yellow man. I don't think they could beat Pedrosa.
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Agree with that. The bikes are different to ride now though. Pecco and Martin are both very good on these bikes against anyone. Would it transfer to pre aero and pre ride height machines? Possibly not but they are very good on these.
Yes watching how Martin and the Beast go next year will be good
 
Saffa said:
I mean, I didn't even bother arguing with the list at first... Stoner is retired, so what's the point in including him. The comment about Pedrosa is just factually wrong and he is also not in the championship. While I would actually say Toprak is better than Binder, it doesn't matter, because he is not in MotoGP so it's completely irrelevant.

Mir, Mav and Aleix is just silly
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Mir is a world champion stuck on a POS bike.
Mav has had a win and 2 sprint wins on top of a few sprint podiums as well. The aprilia is different but certainly no better than the KTM.
Aleix has had a sprint win and a bunch of sprint podiums.
Both are similar or the same level as Binder. Having never been on the same bike
Rins won a race on a ....... Honda last year and is stuck on a POS Yamaha that Fabio can’t finish better than 7th on.

Someone not being in motogp or not is not relevant to what I am saying I said that he is one of the best road racing motorcycle riders in the world. Stoner if he wanted could get on a bike for a couple of weekends and be faster than just about everyone. He already did it once after not riding for a few years.
Pedrosa despite not racing every weekend and achieves similar results to Binder when riding on a race weekend. He is just better.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
I have a hard time judging the current talent due to how superior the Ducati is. Do you think Peeco or Martin could win a championship on the Aprilia or KTM the last few years? I don't. Next year will tell us a lot with Martin and Bezz going to Aprilia and Beast on a ktm. I don't think any of the current riders are on the level of the former "aliens." Marc is proving that by being the only one who can compete regularly against the gp24. None of these guys could compete in the former years of JLo, Marc, Casey, and the old yellow man. I don't think they could beat Pedrosa.
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It is hard to judge because the GP24 is so much better than everything else out there. I don’t believe that the 23 is though, Aprilia and KTM clearly made a step and a decent step but Ducati made as big of if not a bigger step.
I strongly doubt that Martin or Pecco could have won a championship on the KTM or the Aprilia but Brad hasn’t had any teammates that you expect a heap from either. Oliviera was his best teammate and despite not being as consistent he still has 5 wins on a KTM to Brads 2 though Brad has 11 podiums to Oliviera’s 7. You could argue that Oliveiras results on the Ape show that the KTM is a better bike but I have assumed he is riding a year old bike.
 
p4p1 said:
Mir is a world champion stuck on a POS bike.
Mav has had a win and 2 sprint wins on top of a few sprint podiums as well. The aprilia is different but certainly no better than the KTM.
Aleix has had a sprint win and a bunch of sprint podiums.
Both are similar or the same level as Binder. Having never been on the same bike
Rins won a race on a ....... Honda last year and is stuck on a POS Yamaha that Fabio can’t finish better than 7th on.

Someone not being in motogp or not is not relevant to what I am saying I said that he is one of the best road racing motorcycle riders in the world. Stoner if he wanted could get on a bike for a couple of weekends and be faster than just about everyone. He already did it once after not riding for a few years.
Pedrosa despite not racing every weekend and achieves similar results to Binder when riding on a race weekend. He is just better.
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I'm pretty sure everyone is talking about the current MotoGP grid. You're the only one who's making it hypothetical by trying to make it a generalisation. But whatever man, carpe diem.
 
Saffa said:
I'm pretty sure everyone is talking about the current MotoGP grid. You're the only one who's making it hypothetical by trying to make it a generalisation. But whatever man, carpe diem.
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Yeah and there was still more than 5 guys above him as well as a bunch of guys who arguments can be made either way for.
Dude isn’t top 5, he isn’t special and that’s fine. He is better than like 99.99% of people who will ever rave a motorcycle.
 
p4p1 said:
It is hard to judge because the GP24 is so much better than everything else out there. I don’t believe that the 23 is though, Aprilia and KTM clearly made a step and a decent step but Ducati made as big of if not a bigger step.
I strongly doubt that Martin or Pecco could have won a championship on the KTM or the Aprilia but Brad hasn’t had any teammates that you expect a heap from either. Oliviera was his best teammate and despite not being as consistent he still has 5 wins on a KTM to Brads 2 though Brad has 11 podiums to Oliviera’s 7. You could argue that Oliveiras results on the Ape show that the KTM is a better bike but I have assumed he is riding a year old bike.
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On the flip side of that, I think it is feasible that Binder could have won a championship on the Ducati. I'm not saying he would have or that he likely would have, just that it is feasible. I'm not sure how many other riders I would say that about.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
the math ain't mathing
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It is when you consider where some of the other riders are stuck.
Do you really think as @AnnoyingTwit above me said that he is better than Fabio?
The one thing Binder is very good at is finishing races.
How can you rate Binder above a younger (so age shouldn't be impacting his riding abilty) than Mir who at least won a world championship? The Ducati and Yamaha were better bikes than the Suzuki at the time and yes it took a strange set of events, including top riders throwing it down the road consistently but like Binder, Mir's strongest asset was consistently finishing that year rather than outright speed.

So my question is: If everyone lines up on the same bike over the season who are your top 5? For me Binder isn't one of them at the moment and I have not seen any proof that he would be.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
On the flip side of that, I think it is feasible that Binder could have won a championship on the Ducati. I'm not saying he would have or that he likely would have, just that it is feasible. I'm not sure how many other riders I would say that about.
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Feasible? Sure, maybe.
Pecco has thrown it down the road how many times this year? Martin is leading because he is finishing races.
But you could say or at least theorise a bunch or riders would win a championship on a Ducati currently, depending on what other riders are on Ducati's.
 
p4p1 said:
It is when you consider where some of the other riders are stuck.
Do you really think as @AnnoyingTwit above me said that he is better than Fabio?
The one thing Binder is very good at is finishing races.
How can you rate Binder above a younger (so age shouldn't be impacting his riding abilty) than Mir who at least won a world championship? The Ducati and Yamaha were better bikes than the Suzuki at the time and yes it took a strange set of events, including top riders throwing it down the road consistently but like Binder, Mir's strongest asset was consistently finishing that year rather than outright speed.

So my question is: If everyone lines up on the same bike over the season who are your top 5? For me Binder isn't one of them at the moment and I have not seen any proof that he would be.
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Here is the thing for me. I am not sure I rate Pecco and Martin higher than Binder on equal machines. So yes I would put Fabio above him no I would not rate Mir above him. A few years back one could have put Franco in there but he has proven to be a pretender. Because of Binders consistency over the years he has been in gp I do put him in the top 5 on equal machines. 1.Marc 2.Fabio My 3-5 is Pecco, Martin, Binder in no specific order. Mir is not in there for me. Do you know how many wins he has in GP? I'll give you a hint, more than 0 and less than 2.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
Here is the thing for me. I am not sure I rate Pecco and Martin higher than Binder on equal machines. So yes I would put Fabio above him no I would not rate Mir above him. A few years back one could have put Franco in there but he has proven to be a pretender. Because of Binders consistency over the years he has been in gp I do put him in the top 5 on equal machines. 1.Marc 2.Fabio My 3-5 is Pecco, Martin, Binder in no specific order. Mir is not in there for me. Do you know how many wins he has in GP? I'll give you a hint, more than 0 and less than 2.
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Weird to bring up Mir only has 1 win when Binder only has 2.
Do you know how many MotoGP championship Binder has? I’ll give you a hint, it’s less than one.
Do you know who has the most wins for KTM? I’ll give you a hint, it isn’t Binder.
No mention of Acosta in your list either, despite him having more podiums this year and only being 6 points behind, despite issuing a race this year.
 
p4p1 said:
Weird to bring up Mir only has 1 win when Binder only has 2.
Do you know how many MotoGP championship Binder has? I’ll give you a hint, it’s less than one.
Do you know who has the most wins for KTM? I’ll give you a hint, it isn’t Binder.
No mention of Acosta in your list either, despite him having more podiums this year and only being 6 points behind, despite issuing a race this year.
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Fair points. But 2 wins is more than 1 and 1 championship is more than none. So it evens out. Mir winning his championship took the perfect storm. A shortened season with the top rider out and a very consistent bike. In a full length season I highly doubt he would have won it. I cannot take his championship away from him but I also cannot measure it the same as others. Without that championship where would you rate him? He wouldn't even make my top 10.

As for Pedro. I think he is a generational talent. I think he could win the championship this year on the gp24. I'd like to see what he could have done on the gp23 even. I have a hard time rating him so soon in his career so I am leaving him off the list. I think he is the second most talented rider on the grid behind Marc but I am not ready to rate him. I think the world of him. I like everything about the kid, even the way he is pushing it to win at the cost of results. He wants to learn to be the champion not a contender and I am all for it.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
Fair points. But 2 wins is more than 1 and 1 championship is more than none. So it evens out. Mir winning his championship took the perfect storm. A shortened season with the top rider out and a very consistent bike. In a full length season I highly doubt he would have won it. I cannot take his championship away from him but I also cannot measure it the same as others. Without that championship where would you rate him? He wouldn't even make my top 10.
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Just looking at the stats, a championship is much more valuable than a win. I'm not sure where to put Mir in the ranking, but of all the riders who have won championships on the current grid, I'd put Mir last.
 

MdubSTYLIE said:
Fair points. But 2 wins is more than 1 and 1 championship is more than none. So it evens out. Mir winning his championship took the perfect storm. A shortened season with the top rider out and a very consistent bike. In a full length season I highly doubt he would have won it. I cannot take his championship away from him but I also cannot measure it the same as others. Without that championship where would you rate him? He wouldn't even make my top 10.

As for Pedro. I think he is a generational talent. I think he could win the championship this year on the gp24. I'd like to see what he could have done on the gp23 even. I have a hard time rating him so soon in his career so I am leaving him off the list. I think he is the second most talented rider on the grid behind Marc but I am not ready to rate him. I think the world of him. I like everything about the kid, even the way he is pushing it to win at the cost of results. He wants to learn to be the champion not a contender and I am all for it.
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For me Brad is a top 10 rider in the world but probably not top 5, although a case could be made for him being 5th best given he has finished 4th previously and is currently 5th I believe.

Not too shabby being a top 10 rider in the world, and it is hard to rank riders currently with the Ducati being such a dominant bike and there being 8 of them, and Marini iirc winning a sprint race on one (EDIT I didn’t recall correctly, I was remembering a weekend when he took pole position and a Sprint podium). I do rate Marini as a development rider btw.

Imo he hasn’t shown enough raw pace in the dry to be rated higher, given Oliveira has won 5 races (on a KTM)) and Jack Miler has won 4, and the one lap pace Acosta has shown together with actual podiums this year.against 4 GP24 riders and Marc Marquez.
 
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AnnoyingTwit said:
Just looking at the stats, a championship is much more valuable than a win. I'm not sure where to put Mir in the ranking, but of all the riders who have won championships on the current grid, I'd put Mir last.
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I get it. But it was a championship 4 years ago with question marks. Binders wins were more recent. Mir has had zero wins in the time period that Binder got his. So if we are talking current riders and current form I say Binder all day. We all follow other sports. How many teams were good 4 years ago and are .... now? Its not that uncommon. So currently I rank Binder much higher than Mir. Now 2021 I would have ranked Mir higher.
 

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