Pause for thought.....

I like Elias. Saw him at the 'meet the riders' gig at Le Mans last year and liked his philosophies.
I'm not taking sides here.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 7 2007, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>insedends


Rog, mate, I had to think about that one

hmm, i wasnt going to comment on this but i will add my little thought.. Tiger Toni.. the guys awesome, most exciting rider this year IMO.. but in a way, ur right, he is a little hot headed, but who isnt? OJ in turkey was far worse, taking down 3 riders, tiger Toni took him self out.. oh yea, and ran Nicky off-track, but who gives a .... about him, right?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 7 2007, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ask a elias fan on here how long they have followed the sport and why they like tony and you will understand why they get on my .... when they spout ....
ahhh but thats a diehard fan of a rider for u. now i know u know perfectly well what being a fervent fan of a particular rider is like. ...ya gotta love it!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ May 7 2007, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ahhh but thats a diehard fan of a rider for u. now i know u know perfectly well what being a fervent fan of a particular rider is like. ...ya gotta love it!
dont no what your going on about mate

This is a classic thread on here, and its hilarious. Bike racing is dangerous and we all know it, regardless of this it is still extremely sad when a person takes a risk and pays the ultimate sacrifice. It is not hypocritical to support an exciting rider and be sad when people lose their life, these things are miles appart.

A lot of the off season was spent by many critisizing Nicky Hayden for not going all out for the win, but when a rider (Elias) tries it and gets it wrong, many of those who said it was admirable (rossi fans) suddenly change their mind. Riders in the world championship are skilled and responsible enough to know what they are doing and bef ully familiar with the risks they are taking.

Think about this, perhaps the real hypocrits are those who complain about safety measures such as 800cc engines and traction control ruining our sport, when in fact they are making the sport we love significantly safer with a relatively insignificant loss in excitement.

rossi said the same thing about pedrosa last year.

i couldn't find a thread on it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (drumfu @ May 8 2007, 12:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>rossi said the same thing about pedrosa last year.

i couldn't find a thread on it.

yeah, rings a bell, but too lazy to look it up

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (drumfu @ May 7 2007, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>rossi said the same thing about pedrosa last year.

i couldn't find a thread on it.

I can't remember Rossi saying that, but a lot of commentators didn't like his dives on the inside where there were hardly any space. And they got it right didn't they?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 7 2007, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I can't remember Rossi saying that, but a lot of commentators didn't like his dives on the inside where there were hardly any space. And they got it right didn't they?

Well Rossi complained that Pedrosa wasn't strong enough on the breaks to make hard passes, particularly as he tries to back out of the moves rather than comitting and going wide if needed. We havn't seen much passing action from Dani this year so we don't know how he will shape up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ May 7 2007, 08:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well pete if we shuffle elias off then we might as well get rid of cappirossi, rossi, melandri, roberts, jacque & host of others. c'mon now...

I'm with you at the 'risky sport' and their decision to take it... but here on riders mentioned Pedrosa taking out Hayden pops up to mind too!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HiMyNameIsDan @ May 7 2007, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hmm, i wasnt going to comment on this but i will add my little thought.. Tiger Toni.. the guys awesome, most exciting rider this year IMO.. but in a way, ur right, he is a little hot headed, but who isnt? OJ in turkey was far worse, taking down 3 riders, tiger Toni took him self out.. oh yea, and ran Nicky off-track, but who gives a .... about him, right?

Mate, 3 came out of track on Elias' move... Hayden, Barros and Hofmann!

I'm not angry at Elias’ move (although I do joke about it a lot because it’s funny just a race after Jaque’s apology). It’s difficult on that first lap all of them into a tight corner… been said a lot of times. But on my view it was his fault, and it’s a shame for the 3 other riders, ok it’s racing, but accepting a mistake is all it takes to make things better and fairer!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 7 2007, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is a classic thread on here, and its hilarious. Bike racing is dangerous and we all know it, regardless of this it is still extremely sad when a person takes a risk and pays the ultimate sacrifice. It is not hypocritical to support an exciting rider and be sad when people lose their life, these things are miles appart.

A lot of the off season was spent by many critisizing Nicky Hayden for not going all out for the win, but when a rider (Elias) tries it and gets it wrong, many of those who said it was admirable (rossi fans) suddenly change their mind. Riders in the world championship are skilled and responsible enough to know what they are doing and bef ully familiar with the risks they are taking.

Think about this, perhaps the real hypocrits are those who complain about safety measures such as 800cc engines and traction control ruining our sport, when in fact they are making the sport we love significantly safer with a relatively insignificant loss in excitement.

Well put Tom!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ May 7 2007, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm with you at the 'risky sport' and their decision to take it... but here on riders mentioned Pedrosa taking out Hayden pops up to mind too!

Exactly, Pedrosa and rossi have even been liable to a mistake like this, and they are two of the most competent riders out there

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ May 7 2007, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If what I was trying to say wasnt clear at first, then thats my fault, but as the post goes on, it becomes clear that its about looking at ourselves, should we be cheering the guy who keeps banging into folks, when we know how serious the outcome could be? (I used Elias as an example, but it could apply to other riders) Asking where the clarity is with "erratic" riding, why is it sometimes punished harshly, sometimes not punished at all, asking how many times a rider has to make the same mistake before he learns from it.

I understand your point, and can see how you would want to raise it, regardless of which riders we may choose to look at. However i feel that at the level of bike racing i watch, all of the competitors are aware of what they are doing and are not just "erratic lunatics" as they may appear to be to us on the tv.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ May 7 2007, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For a post that was supposed to about people stopping for a minute and having a think about things its certainly got controversial!


Pete
good job pete!

Ah, another great thread to sink my teeth into. Ok, before I go and reply to the posters, I must say, let me take a moment to pause and ponder...........ok done.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ May 8 2007, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah, another great thread to sink my teeth into. Ok, before I go and reply to the posters, I must say, let me take a moment to pause and ponder...........ok done.

uh-oh

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ May 7 2007, 06:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Heres one to think about...

We also have a thread about Elias, and his "habit" of crashing into people.

I think we should take the "he's an exciting racer" blinkers off, the guy is a loose cannon.

I know its bike racing, not flower arranging and people get hurt, but how "entertaining and exciting" would he be if he put himself or somebody else in a wheelchair or worse.

We cant be condoning loose riding and then sending condolences to racers who have lost their lives. It's hypocritical.
Well, Pete, leave it to you to get al ultraistic about the sanctity of human life (which I believe you really do see as sacred) but you mix it in with laying a giant crap on Elias to make your point. Uhm, yeah, I don't think the casual onlooker is gonna see past your "innocent motives" once you start taking shots at the guy who's ruffled your boys feathers. But I'll play along. Yes, its a dangerous sport. And yes, there should be more consistency as to what is officially deemed "reckless". But damn, to the casual onlooker, it sure smacks of you simply defending your boy Rossi. I'll add more...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ May 7 2007, 06:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well pete if we shuffle elias off then we might as well get rid of cappirossi, rossi, melandri, roberts, jacque & host of others. c'mon now...
Totally agree, and even though Pete didn't say that, he surely suggested it. But Frosty, you gotta say it with alittle more pazaz man, don't let them get away with subtle insinuations. I say this because I just read skidmarks post....we got a bleeder here. So on to the next post....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ May 7 2007, 06:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's the biggest heap of crap I've ever heard and incredibly insulting that you would call someone or anyone hypocritical on the strength of YOUR opinion that a particular rider is dangerous. You have no idea.
Take notes Frosty, this is how you call somebody on their comments, no matter how subtly they disguised their real intensions mixed into an ultraistic sandwich. Yeah, I agree with you Skid, it sure does come across as "hypocritical". But in Pete's defense, he has tracked racing for longer than most reptilians have life spans. The rest of us just Google our information.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ May 7 2007, 06:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm saying there appears to be no consistancy towards what can be seen as dangerous riding, either from fans or race officials.
Ah ha, yes, I agree. Now how can we go about to solve this enigma. Hum, I got an Idea. When Rossi puts on a dangerous pass/overtaking maneuver, we'll say that he's earned the right to be dangerous (at least that's what Babelfish says), and when Elias puts on a dangerous pass/overtaking maneuver, we'll say it a "loose cannon". Hows that Pete? Lets write that into the rulebook immediately.

Not kidding, your right, there is no consistancy, but man that is gonna be a hard one to solve. Can't really see how it can be pulled off buddy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ May 7 2007, 06:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1.Theres no clarity as to what makes for dangerous riding. And fans make excuses for there own guys mistakes all the time.

2.The hypocrasy I'm talking about, is that when a rider dies, we all offer our thoughts and condolences. Rightly so.

3. But when riders are knocking each other off, its "racing incidents" How many times does someone have to have the same incident before people question it.

4. I'm saying we should stop and have a look at ourselves and think what we are saying.

I obviously touched a nerve here
1. Yup, and that's why you got a response like Skid, because you pointed to Elias as a .... canon but then again, your boy, and perhaps mine too, have put on some very close and questionable moves, but you chose to single out Elias, the guy that your boy just complained about.
2. Yeah, I see your point, but they are big boys. More people die on the interstates in my country, perhaps we should ban cars?
3. Perhaps they should ban the Isle of Mann?
4. Yeah man, you got me thinking. .... Toni, hes an ....... (jk). Nah, but really, we have always had deaths in racing, but they are trying to make it safer all the time. Despite that, there are freak accidents.
5. You touched a nerve you jerk (I say this in the most loving way) because you singled out Elias.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ May 8 2007, 09:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not kidding, your right, there is no consistency, but man that is gonna be a hard one to solve. Can't really see how it can be pulled off buddy.

There will always be a certain amount of discretion by the race officials when they review any situation that may need to be looked at. I think they have done a pretty good job since the silly shock wave that lasted the 2003 season.