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Nakamoto: Spec ECU? HRC will defect to WSBK!

You say they don't add additives to petrol to be more det resistant. So what's the difference between 95ron and 99ron,, oh the additives.



Find me where I said they don't use additives to reduce detonation. I'll wait...



While I'm waiting I will explain to you, again, because you didn't get it the first time. Higher octane means less detonation.



You can get increased octane fuel without additives. How do they do that? Refining and picking the higher-quality volatiles, that's how.



Do I need to add chemical engineering to your list of things you know nothing about?



stick to your furniture mate cos you know .... all about engine tuning.



This is inane. You have rolled up a whole bunch of disparate, unrelated tech into 'adding meth will give more power.



It just won't.



What it will do is allow you to increase the compression of an engine above what straight petrol will do, without detonating.



Meth doesn't give more power, it allows you to tune harder.



As a fuel it gives less calorific value than petrol, but has a greater resistance to detonation.



Adding methanol to an engine that will run, in its present state of tune, on petrol without detonation, will result in less power, not more.



Which was what you were saying you would do - run your street car on 20% methanol because it would give more power and be cheaper - do I need to go back and dig up the quote?



As well as making furniture I have had a long career in motorsport. Your characterisation that I "know .... all about engine tuning", coming from you, is less of a slight than you might think.



Considering you believe that higher octane equates to more likelihood of detonation, I believe I can hold my own against you in any discussion of engine tuning. You really are coming to a battle of wits, unarmed.



Carry on.
 
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Find me where I said they don't use additives to reduce detonation. I'll wait...



While I'm waiting I will explain to you, again, because you didn't get it the first time. Higher octane means less detonation.



You can get increased octane fuel without additives. How do they do that? Refining and picking the higher-quality volatiles, that's how.



Do I need to add chemical engineering to your list of things you know nothing about?







This is inane. You have rolled up a whole bunch of disparate, unrelated tech into 'adding meth will give more power.



It just won't.



What it will do is allow you to increase the compression of an engine above what straight petrol will do, without detonating.



Meth doesn't give more power, it allows you to tune harder.



As a fuel it gives less calorific value than petrol, but has a greater resistance to detonation.



Adding methanol to an engine that will run, in its present state of tune, on petrol without detonation, will result in less power, not more.



Which was what you were saying you would do - run your street car on 20% methanol because it would give more power and be cheaper - do I need to go back and dig up the quote?



As well as making furniture I have had a long career in motorsport. Your characterisation that I "know .... all about engine tuning", coming from you, is less of a slight than you might think.



Considering you believe that higher octane equates to more likelihood of detonation, I believe I can hold my own against you in any discussion of engine tuning. You really are coming to a battle of wits, unarmed.



Carry on.

Jeeezus. Where did i say higher octane fuel did not give more knock resistance????? Where did i say using meth alone without tuning your AFR's timing ect to suit would give more power???? your just going around in circles with your argument while trying to back track. I re-posted your quoted post above and highlighted the parts i disagree with and the contradictions.

As i said, im not that interested in you or your opinions on this. I'm not here to educate you, just mock your ignorance.



Now back on topic.



A spec ecu will suck and ruin the sport further just like the spec tyres have.
 
Zoot, you may be smart, or you may just be some smart .... But one thing is for sure, your an .... You seem to have no social skills and if it wasn't for the curtain of anonymity the internet provides, I have no doubt in my mind you would have a line(queue) of people willing to sit down and visit with you face to face.
 
Zoot, you may be smart, or you may just be some smart .... But one thing is for sure, your an .... You seem to have no social skills and if it wasn't for the curtain of anonymity the internet provides, I have no doubt in my mind you would have a line(queue) of people willing to sit down and visit with you face to face.



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He also tends to like saying 'carry on' a lot
 
Zoot, you may be smart, or you may just be some smart .... But one thing is for sure, your an .... You seem to have no social skills and if it wasn't for the curtain of anonymity the internet provides, I have no doubt in my mind you would have a line(queue) of people willing to sit down and visit with you face to face.



Yup, He may have been involved with motorsports but guess what? So have I..racing since I was 9 and also as a qualified Motorsports & Design engineer who has worked in F1, for starters but I seem to have better social skills
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He also tends to like saying 'carry on' a lot

He is just on the wind up i reckon. He is now implying i was suggesting just dumping a load of meth in my tank and hoping for more power. If you all read the stupid debate from the start you will see his last post is actually saying pretty much what i said in the beginning.

Oh and zoot, not that its any of your business but i am a qualified motorcycle mechanic and been tuning normally aspirated bike engines for years. I have even been a spanner man for a race team in the past. Forced induction is my new hobby and let me tell you, there is quite a learning curve. Even for someone with my qualifications. I must admit though, i know .... about furniture.

anyone else think this joker is actually barrymachine?
 
Hey Rog, I have a lot of stuff and info I did in Uni on forced induction during my engine design/development modules so if there is anything you want to know more on drop me a line and I'll see if I can help you.



You find that forced induction is ALWAYS the most popular module in Motorsport Engineering courses as all the kids just want to know how to make their engine go fast
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Hey Rog, I have a lot of stuff and info I did in Uni on forced induction during my engine design/development modules so if there is anything you want to know more on drop me a line and I'll see if I can help you.



You find that forced induction is ALWAYS the most popular module in Motorsport Engineering courses as all the kids just want to know how to make their engine go fast
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Do you have any info on boost creep? Along the lines of exhaust housing vs cold side housing matching?
 
Do you have any info on boost creep? Along the lines of exhaust housing vs cold side housing matching?

Do you drag race the subaru? Don't get me wrong, I am a whole hearted admirer of fast cars in general and of the WRX STi in particular (they had a liberty/legacy STi in australia as well which I strongly considered buying, although not in the same league performance wise), but the performance would be fairly adequate with what you have already. I have old school friends (old being the operative word at this point in time) who still drag race competitively, but with an actual drag race car, although not a fueler.
 
Do you drag race the subaru? Don't get me wrong, I am a whole hearted admirer of fast cars in general and of the WRX STi in particular (they had a liberty/legacy STi in australia as well which I strongly considered buying, although not in the same league performance wise), but the performance would be fairly adequate with what you have already. I have old school friends (old being the operative word at this point in time) who still drag race competitively, but with an actual drag race car, although not a fueler.

I did take it to Santa pod with a couple of mates in their tricked up cars but we all sat there waiting for the rain to stop and the strip to open. Sadly that never happened and i've not been back since. I did used to drag race bikes years ago though, only bracket racing but it was fun and expensive enough for me.
 
Zoot, you may be smart, or you may just be some smart .... But one thing is for sure, your an .... You seem to have no social skills and if it wasn't for the curtain of anonymity the internet provides, I have no doubt in my mind you would have a line(queue) of people willing to sit down and visit with you face to face.



Im just now catching up with this thread. Its this post that made me perk up and chime in. Jesus, if anybody can get under baturros skins, well thats an accomplishment. Haha
 
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He also tends to like saying 'carry on' a lot







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And yes, I did go and look - the FIM site now is a total .... to navigate.



Carry on.







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Carry on - not that you need any encouragement.







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Carry on, ......... I'm happy to enter any battle of wits you may entertain, although I suspect you are coming to the party unarmed - or at least only half-prepared.







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But not in this case. There was no argument, just 'the deal' being a ....... .....



Carry on.







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Both of my degrees and a number of diplomas would say otherwise, but carry on...







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Zootalaws' timestamp='1345819530' post='327735 said:
No, but carry on. No doubt you can come up with more incorrect supposition.







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Zootalaws' timestamp='1345787848' post='327646 said:
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Zootalaws' timestamp='1345787848' post='327646 said:
No, that's not what you did at all.



You posted some ...., got questioned on it and posted a sarcastic response as a consequence.



I posted rebuttals to your claims, you responded with more ......



Carry on, you are batting 0:3.







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Zootalaws' timestamp='1345879100' post='327831 said:
Did I say you were wrong? Perhaps you could point out where I said that. What I did say was that it is not exactly as you stated. It seems like this has degenerated into a hair splitting contest. If that's what you want, carry on.







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Zootalaws' timestamp='1346656613' post='328938 said:
Considering you believe that higher octane equates to more likelihood of detonation, I believe I can hold my own against you in any discussion of engine tuning. You really are coming to a battle of wits, unarmed.



Carry on.
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Just highlights his arrogance. Seems we have another ....... know it all on the board. When he first joined he seemed quite friendly, i noticed he stated his location in the same county as myself. I pm'ed him to ask where about he was, he said Aldershot which is not too far from me. I asked if he fancied meeting up for a beer. He ignored that pm then proceeded to attack me in every post i made. For me that showed the type of poster and person he is. Remind you of anyone?
 
I asked if he fancied meeting up for a beer. He ignored that pm then proceeded to attack me in every post i made. For me that showed the type of poster and person he is. Remind you of anyone?



My ex girlfriend! haha
 
The problem remains that the tracks and the riders probably can't sustain unlimited increase in speed as has been said. I thought jerry burgess's argument from an engineering philosophy viewpoint that true protoype racing but with a 600cc limit was logically reasonable, but as david emmett/kropotkin said this would probably be even more expensive than recent formulae.



This thread is impossible/irrelevant without reminding people of the back story. Michaelm is up to the task, and I'd like to add my own .02



1. The 990cc formula was Dorna's idea, and, according to Burgess, the MSMA were bewildered by the extraordinary capacity



2. When Kato died, the MSMA used his passing to adjust the formula and reduce the performance potential of the bikes.



3. The 21L 800cc formula was a good faith effort to stabilize the sport, but Bridgestone's new tires, and the Australian kid who could ride them properly, changed the game completely. Stoner and Bridgestone reintroduced the specter of violent death as cornering speeds rose in 2007-2008.



4. The control tire was introduced by Dorna as a way to combat cornering speeds and tire costs (probably after tire war regulations failed in 2007/2008).



5. The MSMA refuse all horsepower regulations that create parity, thus, Honda have decided to save face and continue supporting the wayward 21L formula despite all of its glaring flaws. They continually cite (as does Povol) the unacceptable introduction of new undeserving competitors if the rules change and the sport is dumbed down. In reality, major factories are withdrawing from MotoGP, while combating insolvency and bankruptcy b/c the 21L formula is already quite dumb.



6. One of the most important tools for improving horsepower performance over race distance is the adaptive fuel computers. By mandating a spec ECU system, Dorna hopes to simplify the sport and improve parity. If the MSMA cared about saving the electronics, they would simply raise fuel capacity so the fuel computers could be developed ad naseum without disrupting the competition or the cost-curve. Obviously, the MSMA care about winning above all else, not the purity of prototyping. I think Dorna try to expose the MSMA for what they really are, but the general public seems to be lost (including some pundits).



To be frank, I think the solutions to motorcycling woes are obvious. If the motorcycle market is stratified by capacity, and 1000cc is the 'premier' capacity, why the hell do they Japanese sell 1000cc cookie-cutters? It wasn't a good idea from the outset, and the shifting global business environment, as well as currency realignment, has shown the problems with the 1000cc UJSBK (universal japanese SBK). It worked for about 3 years when Americans were buying record numbers of bikes on credit. 1000cc should be for MotoGP and MotoGP only. Consumer demands mandate 1000cc MotoGP (or MotoGP displacement superiority). Safety demands that the 1000cc engines be limited in some fashion (crappy tires, simply transmissions, fuel limits, rev limits, or whatever). The 21L limit is ineffective, thus, the limitation method must be changed or new supplementary regs will have to be added, like the spec ECU.



WSBK will have to adjust accordingly. Capacity should be reduced. Efficient manufacturing should be encouraged. All engines in excess of 2 cylinders should be inline configuration (for obvious cost reasons). WSS bikes should be engine scaled versions of the SBKs and interchangeable parts should be mandatory. For example, if a CBR-800RR is an 800cc inline for with bore-stroke of 72mm x 49mm. The CBR-600RR should be a 600cc triple with the same pistons, bore, stroke, cylinders, valves, etc as the SBK. The current 600cc 4-cylinder machines should become Moto2 exclusive.



I don't think establishing a smart direction is as important as determining which intransigent parities are making progress impossible. Honda is obviously the #1 culprit, but unveiling their motives is difficult for fans and experts alike.
 
Do you drag race the subaru? Don't get me wrong, I am a whole hearted admirer of fast cars in general and of the WRX STi in particular (they had a liberty/legacy STi in australia as well which I strongly considered buying, although not in the same league performance wise), but the performance would be fairly adequate with what you have already. I have old school friends (old being the operative word at this point in time) who still drag race competitively, but with an actual drag race car, although not a fueler.



Dude, too much is never enough, particularly if you're running a turbocharger. The temptation to tweak the waste gate and run just one more PSI is always bubbling about in the back of your mind. To this end, running methanol will allow you to add more boost (without detonation) which naturally makes more power despite the lower cal/g. As I understand it, the major downside to alcohol arises when the (richer) alcohol vapor begins to displace so much air that you start running out oxygen to burn. Where this limitation occurs depends on how much air the turbo and intake tract can flow.
 

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