Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
You mean Kallio's performance was a sham and a fraud? In that case, stop watching. Why would you want to be fooled into watching something which is so obviously rigged? Wouldn't your time be better spent watching a much more honest and open contest, like The Voice or Celebrity Apprentice?
Better yet, go to a club race. That's fair and honest. More or less.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Interesting post. Thanks for the insight.
For me the debate is not just about the disparity of the machine and teams. But rather the power politics which artificially enhances the disparity going in. Its like an added layer of disparity, in practical terms, like a performance enhancing drug to those teams. These power politics manifest themselves in different ways, for example with the tier system of tires under Michelin during the first years of the 2000s, or the influence to switch in 08, and drive the development for that tire which always seems to be done in mystery, etc. Which most journalists barely acknowledge at least certainly don't highlight the implications (while ad nausea argue the existence of a "kick" or not).
This article has an element of what I'm talking about. Some sit here and say oh this kid is strong enough to just let it roll off his shoulder, as if he is not some human being made of flesh and blood. I'm pretty sure nobody here on this forum can just let .... roll off their shoulders because to a man/women here I've seen people react to less ...., often going ballistic over words on a virtual space, you and I included. So I find it a bit unrealistic (at best) to say oh no worries Marc won't be affected by being the most hated rider in the paddock. And make no mistake, hated he is, he is the man responsible for cheating the most beloved rider of all time out of a rightful title, not just any title either, but the one that would be used to elevate him into mythical status.
Just today I listened to two guys in a podcast who for the most part spoke of the characters in racing (tangentially regarding Danny Eslick), where at one point one of the two said last year's Lorenzo title should have an * because Marquez robbed Rossi. These were people like you and i, people who spend most of their time thinking about this sport, who have been involved in some capacity. Seemingly as sane as you and i. This opinion is repeated among the paddock, former racers, principals, spectators, etc. In fact I'd say it's the predominant opinion. I can still hear Carmelo Ezpeleta say in that interview sitting at his desk 'it's obvious what happened, we all saw it, we know what happened', suggesting Marquez had screwed Rossi out of a title. Even Mr. Mike Webb who you endorse, supposedly did the right thing explicitly indicted Marc while lamented he couldn't punish him, not that he didn't deserve it in his assessment which was made by virtue of mind reading. If someone here doesn't think that kind of insult affects Marquez they are absolutely wrong (at best).
Edit: it's as if none of us learned .... from Stoner's departure from the sport. Destined to repeat the same mistakes because of our human condition. Funny how we never identify with the bully, and when asked, we always say we would be against the bully. We are never the problem, are we?
Rossi would go ballistic if the sport made him go though half the .... Stoner and now Marquez will be subjected to, if the sport had the balls to call him a ....... petulant capricious .... who enjoyed unfair advantages to artificially pad his record. ...., the guy has threatened to leave more times than I can keep track off, most recently at Valencia over a "penalty" he deserved. The dynamic of confidence and self entitlement for which VR enters seasons is deafening! Who here doesn't think that plays a roll in his advantage, if we keep repeating racing is mostly mental. Rossi goes in to every season knowing as Herve Poncharal said "He is 'our' Emporer!"
Frankly, how could Rossi not think that, he's never been told otherwise from anybody of status. Enablers.
Btw, with all do respect, telling someone to stop watching because we acknowledge the ........ is as much a cheapshot as telling you your journalistic integrity is questionable because you're beholden to the organizer's puppet strings. I read you because I don't believe that, and watch GP despite that I do.
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Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
With all due respect; Yamaha showed him the door which lead to his years in Ducati Siberia. His influence is huge - but more limited than some would like to believe.
Sorry, previous post was a quick one done while doing other things, the implication I meant was actually what you posted, and by the best equipment I meant that the best teams and riders obviously get together in the natural order of things, and work together to make things even better. I had no problem with Mick Doohan of whom I was a big fan doing so, and Rossi obviously has done the same thing but for significantly longer even that Mick did. I see no coincidence in the Yamaha apparently being better recently with his involvement either, although such things as Yamaha developing their own seamless gearbox have probably been significant as well.
The only thing these days is that the resources required for the top factory bikes probably does mean that not many bikes of that level can be afforded now, which Dorna are at least trying to address, as opposed to the last year of the 990 formula or when Garry McCoy could win races on a virtually home built (by his team) bike, although there were many races not involving many bikes at the front in the 500 era as well.
My objection to Rossi is different and more recent than Jumkie's (I always thought it a no-brainer for Yamaha to re-hire Valentino), and is pretty much what MM seemed to be implying in the interview, in that Valentino now seems prepared to quite openly mobilise his fan base against rivals, or a rival anyway. While I call an element among them crazy as they likely do people with my viewpoint I don't really think many are actually diagnosable, and I believe Keshav is correct in not anticipating seats being torn up, and nor do I think Valentino is attempting to incite them to that level. However while I was among those who was strongly critical of MM in relation to matters such as the Willairot incident, I like Jumkie don't think he deserves to be an object of widespread hatred for the rest of his career for the sin of being a rival to Rossi, not exactly unprecedented for such rivals, and I now blame Rossi directly rather than just an element of his fandom.
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He basically left both Honda and Yamaha to prove a point imo, rather than being shown the door by them, it was dual number one status for Jorge that offended him at Yamaha iirc, but Honda more so than Yamaha have definitely not been Rossi sycophants since his departure, and even made him serve out the fine print of his contract when he left for Yamaha.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
I dont watch. Its not racing. Its the same procession every week. Your kidding yourself if you think what your seeing is any sort of competition.
This year marks the 10 yr anniversary of the last time a non factory bike won. Name 1 sport where the same teams won for 10 years straight.
Then why the .... are you wasting your time on a forum dedicated to a sport you don't follow?
EDIT: Oh, wait, you're like one of those Rossi fans who claims they have cancelled their MotoGP subscriptions because of (insert perceived injustice here), and then spends every waking hour of their time posting about it on the internet.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Consider this regarding 'moral hazard': the footage of Rossi doing his warm down lap at Valencia was not only labeled "lap of honor" but the message of those applauding and patting him on the back reinforced the message that there was honor; HOWEVER, that peculiar interaction took on this dynamic precisely because he was serving a PENALTY for a dishonorable act. In what other form of life does this happen? When was the last time a guy was for example caught doping or cheating then applauded for a valiant effort while serving out the consequence?
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
It's not as if he left Yamaha of his own free will. He made an ultimatum that he thought (wrongly) they wouldn't refuse, and when they said don't let the door hit you on the way out he tried to save face by going to Duc. I don't seriously believe he ever thought Yamaha would call his bluff.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Fair enough, however on the question of moral hazard, risk of consequence was NOT the 2 years he spent at Ducati under the terms of the contract, but rather what came after. There was no moral hazard, there seldom has been when it comes to Rossi because he's never suffered the risk of his decisions, being ushered back to Yamaha with the help of the organizers means he was bailed out. Granted, the organizers had a vested interest, regardless.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
I've noticed a bit of a change toward this opinion. Its as if journalists at first knee-...... not to ruffle the ire of the Yellow Hordes, then slowly, as the white hot heat of the debacle has started to dissipate, some have started to warm up to the idea that Marquez perhaps didn't do anything wrong after all and Rossi was extraordinarily out of order.
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
Off the top of my head I'll go with America's Cup sailing. NYC Yacht Club 110 years.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Although 47 clubs have competed since the inception of the Premier League in 1992, only five have won the title: Manchester United (13), Chelsea (4), Arsenal (3), Manchester City (2) and Blackburn Rovers (1). The current champions are Chelsea having won the 2014–15 title.
2015 -2016? - an unfancied, unfashionable 'blue collar' team assembled for a paltry sum consisting of non-league origins, free transfers and journeymen is now leading the most elite domestic football competition on the planet by five points - eleven clear of Arsenal and sixteen ahead of Manchester United. Achieved by grit, tenacity, self-belief, team spirit and raw talent. In so doing they are destroying the established hegemony, shaming with the 'elite', outing the agents and their hyped overrated players, screwing with worldwide brands and subverting the entire established 'old order' of the game. Imagine Eugene Laverty leading the series come Phillip Island by two wins and you're only halfway there.
Rossi fans are glory fans that's all. Just like man Utd fans in the epl. When they lose its the managers, referees and everybody else's fault, when the players should be looking in the mirror.
Rossi will know deep down that he was wrong about last year, and that Marquez was right. No wonder he needs Uccio to go everywhere with him he is so frekkin high maintenance.
He is a highly successful, talented racer, but is he a racers gentleman .....no. And let's face it he has been out performed over the last 5 seasons and should quit
Rossi will know deep down that he was wrong about last year, and that Marquez was right. No wonder he needs Uccio to go everywhere with him he is so frekkin high maintenance.
He is a highly successful, talented racer, but is he a racers gentleman .....no. And let's face it he has been out performed over the last 5 seasons and should quit
Joined Mar 2016
2K Posts | 2K+
FNQ
Queensland done 9 years in a row. Australian rugby league - State of origin.
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
Some Rossi fans are old enough to have followed him from 125s in the '90s... are they "glory fans"? Generalisations are really dumb.
I am not sure what you mean. He could have stayed at Yamaha if he had accepted equal status with Jorge, which would have amounted to pretty much what he has now, with things perhaps a little slanted in his favour because as Jorge says "he sells more bikes". He actually chose to go to Ducati of his own free will, because he thought he could repeat the triumph of his previous move from Honda, where probably not all that arguably he showed up Honda rather than the reverse, given there were 5 Yamaha championships to a single championship for Nicky Hayden in the next 7 years.
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