<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frizzle @ Dec 20 2007, 05:48 PM) [snapback]104940[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
1 - Rossi complains
2 - Ezpeleta makes threats
3 - Dorna and Rossi's demands are met.
Let me see who won the title in 2005?
He's about as transparent as a double sided brick wall
2005 jumped out at me as well. Rossi with a 11 victories, a couple of seconds, and a couple of thirds. 5 of the top 8 riders rode hondas. 7 of the top 8 had michelins.
I won't say one way or the other about "spectacle", but where's the balance in that?
1 - Rossi complains
2 - Ezpeleta makes threats
3 - Dorna and Rossi's demands are met.
Let me see who won the title in 2005?
He's about as transparent as a double sided brick wall
2005 jumped out at me as well. Rossi with a 11 victories, a couple of seconds, and a couple of thirds. 5 of the top 8 riders rode hondas. 7 of the top 8 had michelins.
I won't say one way or the other about "spectacle", but where's the balance in that?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 22 2007, 03:12 AM) [snapback]104994[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I agree, but i was so happy when Valentino left Honda.... because it was getting repetitive.
Maybe the reason theres alot of concern over one year of Ducati dominance is Stoner... how well hes adapted to the bike and matured as a racer. Its hard to digest, so we look at things like traction control and other excuses but at the end of the day i keep an open mind that hes improved.
I think that the main reason why Honda's dominance didn't cause as much of a stir as Ducati's is because of the rider.
When Rossi rode for Honda it was obvious how much talent he had.
Rossi proved his talent in three differant classes before dominating MotoGP for 4 years.
Also Rossi is a likeable character, it is very rare to see him upset or abusing his crew. Stoner on the other hand is a total differant character. When I was the Oz grand prix this year I saw footage of Stoner on the big screen have what I would call a childish tantrem at his crew on multiple occasions.
I couldn't imagine Rossi acting like this and he is the one with inferior machinery.
Oh also I am an Australian and I did like Stoner until I saw his tantrems at Phillip Island. I hope that he has just gotten a big head this year and when he comes back down to Earth he will become a rider that I would follow.
I agree, but i was so happy when Valentino left Honda.... because it was getting repetitive.
Maybe the reason theres alot of concern over one year of Ducati dominance is Stoner... how well hes adapted to the bike and matured as a racer. Its hard to digest, so we look at things like traction control and other excuses but at the end of the day i keep an open mind that hes improved.
I think that the main reason why Honda's dominance didn't cause as much of a stir as Ducati's is because of the rider.
When Rossi rode for Honda it was obvious how much talent he had.
Rossi proved his talent in three differant classes before dominating MotoGP for 4 years.
Also Rossi is a likeable character, it is very rare to see him upset or abusing his crew. Stoner on the other hand is a total differant character. When I was the Oz grand prix this year I saw footage of Stoner on the big screen have what I would call a childish tantrem at his crew on multiple occasions.
I couldn't imagine Rossi acting like this and he is the one with inferior machinery.
Oh also I am an Australian and I did like Stoner until I saw his tantrems at Phillip Island. I hope that he has just gotten a big head this year and when he comes back down to Earth he will become a rider that I would follow.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny.Hain @ Dec 22 2007, 09:52 AM) [snapback]105041[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think that the main reason why Honda's dominance didn't cause as much of a stir as Ducati's is because of the rider.
When Rossi rode for Honda it was obvious how much talent he had.
Rossi proved his talent in three differant classes before dominating MotoGP for 4 years.
thats a good point.
I think that the main reason why Honda's dominance didn't cause as much of a stir as Ducati's is because of the rider.
When Rossi rode for Honda it was obvious how much talent he had.
Rossi proved his talent in three differant classes before dominating MotoGP for 4 years.
thats a good point.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Dec 20 2007, 08:39 PM) [snapback]104930[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Skidmark, when I talk about a bungled change I don't mean the rearrangement of the grid--that stuff happens. I mean the tire rules they made, that nearly forced a Michelin control tire because B-stone couldn't/wouldn't supply. Those same rules are now effectively reversed. The move to 800s was supposed to keep things the same but make it a bit slower
, but that rule change has lead to more rules discussion. Now they are thinking about a ban on TC, implementing stock ECU's, and making a control tire. Passing is completely gone, battles are much smaller, there is 1 fast racing line, and race pace management is a distant memory. Remember when riders used to ride at 90% then use the last 10 laps to jockey for position and sprint for the finish. What happened? Dani and Casey just point towards the sunset and blast away letting the electronics do the subtle work (the artistic bit that you claim is now more prevalent) while they hit their marks.
I agree the technical nature of riding has increased. It is amazing to watch riders pitch the bike to 60 degrees going 10mph faster than last season, but as you've pointed out, the increase in speeds is due to perfected riding, perfected machinery, perfected electronics, perfected tires. The rider is an ever smaller part of the equation. Patience would have achieved the same performance increases without the power vacuum
by they I assume you mean Dorna lexi. They changed the rules but it was not they who gave the title runner .... tyres and it was not they who kicked up about it, but I believe 100% that the threatened forced introduction of a control tyre was a red herring. They did do that. They run the show so I guess they can whatever they like, .......s.
The rider being a smaller part of the equation, you got me thinking....was perfect everything not always what it was about in gp's. the 90% myth may have been true in the fifties but beleive me, these guys only make it look easy, it isn't. Guys can back off to manage tyres, conserve fuel, or themselves, it happened a lot in 2007 too, but not dropping lap times by 10%, no way. That's the finer art. All weekend it's a team thing but on Sunday it's down to one guy, provided everything else is perfect. See, now I'm confused.
Skidmark, when I talk about a bungled change I don't mean the rearrangement of the grid--that stuff happens. I mean the tire rules they made, that nearly forced a Michelin control tire because B-stone couldn't/wouldn't supply. Those same rules are now effectively reversed. The move to 800s was supposed to keep things the same but make it a bit slower
I agree the technical nature of riding has increased. It is amazing to watch riders pitch the bike to 60 degrees going 10mph faster than last season, but as you've pointed out, the increase in speeds is due to perfected riding, perfected machinery, perfected electronics, perfected tires. The rider is an ever smaller part of the equation. Patience would have achieved the same performance increases without the power vacuum
by they I assume you mean Dorna lexi. They changed the rules but it was not they who gave the title runner .... tyres and it was not they who kicked up about it, but I believe 100% that the threatened forced introduction of a control tyre was a red herring. They did do that. They run the show so I guess they can whatever they like, .......s.
The rider being a smaller part of the equation, you got me thinking....was perfect everything not always what it was about in gp's. the 90% myth may have been true in the fifties but beleive me, these guys only make it look easy, it isn't. Guys can back off to manage tyres, conserve fuel, or themselves, it happened a lot in 2007 too, but not dropping lap times by 10%, no way. That's the finer art. All weekend it's a team thing but on Sunday it's down to one guy, provided everything else is perfect. See, now I'm confused.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skidmark @ Dec 23 2007, 10:51 AM) [snapback]105071[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
by they I assume you mean Dorna lexi. They changed the rules but it was not they who gave the title runner .... tyres and it was not they who kicked up about it, but I believe 100% that the threatened forced introduction of a control tyre was a red herring. They did do that. They run the show so I guess they can whatever they like, .......s.
The rider being a smaller part of the equation, you got me thinking....was perfect everything not always what it was about in gp's. the 90% myth may have been true in the fifties but beleive me, these guys only make it look easy, it isn't. Guys can back off to manage tyres, conserve fuel, or themselves, it happened a lot in 2007 too, but not dropping lap times by 10%, no way. That's the finer art. All weekend it's a team thing but on Sunday it's down to one guy, provided everything else is perfect. See, now I'm confused.
Hi
I do agree that the rider has become a smaller part of the equation. You my be correct in saying that equation hasn't been 90% rider since the 50s, however i do think that the rider has made up enough of the equation so that the best rider will usually win (partly cause the best rider is usually on a good team). This year however the rider has become less of the equation to the point where the best rider will be unable to win. I disagree with the hype that TC has been the main reason. I think that the ride by wire throttles have become more important. You watch the good riders who finness the throttle to stop the wheels spinning up, then you watch stoner who just opens the throttle fully and lets the ride by wire finness it open for him.
If it continues like this the rider won't even have a throttle, instead he will just have a switch to turn it on and off.
My hats off to Ducati for making the screamer engine actually ridable for someone other then Mike Doohan (the god).
Thats justt my rant and I really hope to see stoner brought back down to earth so as to deflate his head.
by they I assume you mean Dorna lexi. They changed the rules but it was not they who gave the title runner .... tyres and it was not they who kicked up about it, but I believe 100% that the threatened forced introduction of a control tyre was a red herring. They did do that. They run the show so I guess they can whatever they like, .......s.
The rider being a smaller part of the equation, you got me thinking....was perfect everything not always what it was about in gp's. the 90% myth may have been true in the fifties but beleive me, these guys only make it look easy, it isn't. Guys can back off to manage tyres, conserve fuel, or themselves, it happened a lot in 2007 too, but not dropping lap times by 10%, no way. That's the finer art. All weekend it's a team thing but on Sunday it's down to one guy, provided everything else is perfect. See, now I'm confused.
Hi
I do agree that the rider has become a smaller part of the equation. You my be correct in saying that equation hasn't been 90% rider since the 50s, however i do think that the rider has made up enough of the equation so that the best rider will usually win (partly cause the best rider is usually on a good team). This year however the rider has become less of the equation to the point where the best rider will be unable to win. I disagree with the hype that TC has been the main reason. I think that the ride by wire throttles have become more important. You watch the good riders who finness the throttle to stop the wheels spinning up, then you watch stoner who just opens the throttle fully and lets the ride by wire finness it open for him.
If it continues like this the rider won't even have a throttle, instead he will just have a switch to turn it on and off.
My hats off to Ducati for making the screamer engine actually ridable for someone other then Mike Doohan (the god).
Thats justt my rant and I really hope to see stoner brought back down to earth so as to deflate his head.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny.Hain @ Dec 23 2007, 12:26 AM) [snapback]105076[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Hi
I do agree that the rider has become a smaller part of the equation. You my be correct in saying that equation hasn't been 90% rider since the 50s, however i do think that the rider has made up enough of the equation so that the best rider will usually win (partly cause the best rider is usually on a good team). This year however the rider has become less of the equation to the point where the best rider will be unable to win. I disagree with the hype that TC has been the main reason. I think that the ride by wire throttles have become more important. You watch the good riders who finness the throttle to stop the wheels spinning up, then you watch stoner who just opens the throttle fully and lets the ride by wire finness it open for him.
If it continues like this the rider won't even have a throttle, instead he will just have a switch to turn it on and off.
My hats off to Ducati for making the screamer engine actually ridable for someone other then Mike Doohan (the god).
Thats justt my rant and I really hope to see stoner brought back down to earth so as to deflate his head.
Hi Danny, Mick Doohan is the greatest in my eyes too
I was lucky enough to meet him once, which was a huge thrill.
The 90% was in the context of guys only riding at 90% of the maximum. Racing hasn't been so 'innocent' in a very long while. Just try riding at 90% at a club race and see where it gets you, never mind in motoGP, it ain't gonna happen, ever. The on/off switch analogy is a very simplified view, if throttle control was the only input a rider had to make to a bikes controls to be fast it would indeed be true but that's not the case.
Hi
I do agree that the rider has become a smaller part of the equation. You my be correct in saying that equation hasn't been 90% rider since the 50s, however i do think that the rider has made up enough of the equation so that the best rider will usually win (partly cause the best rider is usually on a good team). This year however the rider has become less of the equation to the point where the best rider will be unable to win. I disagree with the hype that TC has been the main reason. I think that the ride by wire throttles have become more important. You watch the good riders who finness the throttle to stop the wheels spinning up, then you watch stoner who just opens the throttle fully and lets the ride by wire finness it open for him.
If it continues like this the rider won't even have a throttle, instead he will just have a switch to turn it on and off.
My hats off to Ducati for making the screamer engine actually ridable for someone other then Mike Doohan (the god).
Thats justt my rant and I really hope to see stoner brought back down to earth so as to deflate his head.
Hi Danny, Mick Doohan is the greatest in my eyes too
The 90% was in the context of guys only riding at 90% of the maximum. Racing hasn't been so 'innocent' in a very long while. Just try riding at 90% at a club race and see where it gets you, never mind in motoGP, it ain't gonna happen, ever. The on/off switch analogy is a very simplified view, if throttle control was the only input a rider had to make to a bikes controls to be fast it would indeed be true but that's not the case.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny.Hain @ Dec 22 2007, 04:26 PM) [snapback]105076[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Hi
I do agree that the rider has become a smaller part of the equation. You my be correct in saying that equation hasn't been 90% rider since the 50s, however i do think that the rider has made up enough of the equation so that the best rider will usually win (partly cause the best rider is usually on a good team). This year however the rider has become less of the equation to the point where the best rider will be unable to win. I disagree with the hype that TC has been the main reason. I think that the ride by wire throttles have become more important. You watch the good riders who finness the throttle to stop the wheels spinning up, then you watch stoner who just opens the throttle fully and lets the ride by wire finness it open for him.
If it continues like this the rider won't even have a throttle, instead he will just have a switch to turn it on and off.
My hats off to Ducati for making the screamer engine actually ridable for someone other then Mike Doohan (the god).
Thats justt my rant and I really hope to see stoner brought back down to earth so as to deflate his head.
I think ride by wire throttle is questionable, but the only reason they have it is so they can run all the other electronic aids---many of them rely on TC.
Engine mapping for instance. The computer needs to get a readout from the throttle so it knows how to respond. Since the throttle is being filtered through other electros the rider has no idea exactly how much power he's putting to the ground so TC has to keep the rider from flinging himself into the gravel.
THE ONLY MISTAKE YOU CAN MAKE WITH TC IS TO APPLY TOO LITTLE THROTTLE.
Stoner's right hand is doing what's practical. I agree it looks stupid, but if you under throttle you go slowly, which looks more stupid. Electronics suck when it comes to racing, imo.
Skid, I'm not really sure any more what Dorna is and isn't responsible for. I was only trying to point out that they have negated some of the rules changes they have made, and everyday they debate whether or not they should reject the changes 800s have brought to the sport.
I think Dorna did a poor job making the transition. It seems like the could have kept the 990s and made minor changes to slow them down. Eliminating 1 liter of fuel probably would have helped.
Hi
I do agree that the rider has become a smaller part of the equation. You my be correct in saying that equation hasn't been 90% rider since the 50s, however i do think that the rider has made up enough of the equation so that the best rider will usually win (partly cause the best rider is usually on a good team). This year however the rider has become less of the equation to the point where the best rider will be unable to win. I disagree with the hype that TC has been the main reason. I think that the ride by wire throttles have become more important. You watch the good riders who finness the throttle to stop the wheels spinning up, then you watch stoner who just opens the throttle fully and lets the ride by wire finness it open for him.
If it continues like this the rider won't even have a throttle, instead he will just have a switch to turn it on and off.
My hats off to Ducati for making the screamer engine actually ridable for someone other then Mike Doohan (the god).
Thats justt my rant and I really hope to see stoner brought back down to earth so as to deflate his head.
I think ride by wire throttle is questionable, but the only reason they have it is so they can run all the other electronic aids---many of them rely on TC.
Engine mapping for instance. The computer needs to get a readout from the throttle so it knows how to respond. Since the throttle is being filtered through other electros the rider has no idea exactly how much power he's putting to the ground so TC has to keep the rider from flinging himself into the gravel.
THE ONLY MISTAKE YOU CAN MAKE WITH TC IS TO APPLY TOO LITTLE THROTTLE.
Stoner's right hand is doing what's practical. I agree it looks stupid, but if you under throttle you go slowly, which looks more stupid. Electronics suck when it comes to racing, imo.
Skid, I'm not really sure any more what Dorna is and isn't responsible for. I was only trying to point out that they have negated some of the rules changes they have made, and everyday they debate whether or not they should reject the changes 800s have brought to the sport.
I think Dorna did a poor job making the transition. It seems like the could have kept the 990s and made minor changes to slow them down. Eliminating 1 liter of fuel probably would have helped.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skidmark @ Dec 23 2007, 11:41 AM) [snapback]105079[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Hi Danny, Mick Doohan is the greatest in my eyes too
I was lucky enough to meet him once, which was a huge thrill.
The 90% was in the context of guys only riding at 90% of the maximum. Racing hasn't been so 'innocent' in a very long while. Just try riding at 90% at a club race and see where it gets you, never mind in motoGP, it ain't gonna happen, ever. The on/off switch analogy is a very simplified view, if throttle control was the only input a rider had to make to a bikes controls to be fast it would indeed be true but that's not the case.
Mick Doohn is the greatest ever (glad we aggree) Although i believe Rossi is a better rider in terms of skill, no one has ever shown the guts and determination of Mick Doohan.
I do realise that throttle control is not the only skill a rider must have, but you must aggree with me that by not having to concentraite on what your right hand is doing, you are able to be more focused on the other areas of racing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Dec 23 2007, 11:43 AM) [snapback]105080[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think ride by wire throttle is questionable, but the only reason they have it is so they can run all the other electronic aids---many of them rely on TC.
Engine mapping for instance. The computer needs to get a readout from the throttle so it knows how to respond. Since the throttle is being filtered through other electros the rider has no idea exactly how much power he's putting to the ground so TC has to keep the rider from flinging himself into the gravel.
THE ONLY MISTAKE YOU CAN MAKE WITH TC IS TO APPLY TOO LITTLE THROTTLE.
Stoner's right hand is doing what's practical. I agree it looks stupid, but if you under throttle you go slowly, which looks more stupid. Electronics suck when it comes to racing, imo.
Skid, I'm not really sure any more what Dorna is and isn't responsible for. I was only trying to point out that they have negated some of the rules changes they have made, and everyday they debate whether or not they should reject the changes 800s have brought to the sport.
I think Dorna did a poor job making the transition. It seems like the could have kept the 990s and made minor changes to slow them down. Eliminating 1 liter of fuel probably would have helped.
I do aggree that Stoner is doing what is practicle with his machine, put me in the same situation and I would probably do the same thing. Doesn't mean I have to like it.
I also don't like the big head Stoner has now got. People (including himeself) have already forgoten how many time he threw his bikes down the road in previous years.
Durring interviews Stoner obvioulsy believes (or wants people to believe) that he is the main reason for the success.
When there is talk of rule changes to make the machines more even (something everybody wants) stoner is against it. If stoner was a true champion he would want an even playing field, this would allow him to show how good of a rider he is.
IMO if your take the electronics away from stoner he would either have to slow down or throw the bike down the road more often (like previous years)
Hi Danny, Mick Doohan is the greatest in my eyes too
The 90% was in the context of guys only riding at 90% of the maximum. Racing hasn't been so 'innocent' in a very long while. Just try riding at 90% at a club race and see where it gets you, never mind in motoGP, it ain't gonna happen, ever. The on/off switch analogy is a very simplified view, if throttle control was the only input a rider had to make to a bikes controls to be fast it would indeed be true but that's not the case.
Mick Doohn is the greatest ever (glad we aggree) Although i believe Rossi is a better rider in terms of skill, no one has ever shown the guts and determination of Mick Doohan.
I do realise that throttle control is not the only skill a rider must have, but you must aggree with me that by not having to concentraite on what your right hand is doing, you are able to be more focused on the other areas of racing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Dec 23 2007, 11:43 AM) [snapback]105080[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think ride by wire throttle is questionable, but the only reason they have it is so they can run all the other electronic aids---many of them rely on TC.
Engine mapping for instance. The computer needs to get a readout from the throttle so it knows how to respond. Since the throttle is being filtered through other electros the rider has no idea exactly how much power he's putting to the ground so TC has to keep the rider from flinging himself into the gravel.
THE ONLY MISTAKE YOU CAN MAKE WITH TC IS TO APPLY TOO LITTLE THROTTLE.
Stoner's right hand is doing what's practical. I agree it looks stupid, but if you under throttle you go slowly, which looks more stupid. Electronics suck when it comes to racing, imo.
Skid, I'm not really sure any more what Dorna is and isn't responsible for. I was only trying to point out that they have negated some of the rules changes they have made, and everyday they debate whether or not they should reject the changes 800s have brought to the sport.
I think Dorna did a poor job making the transition. It seems like the could have kept the 990s and made minor changes to slow them down. Eliminating 1 liter of fuel probably would have helped.
I do aggree that Stoner is doing what is practicle with his machine, put me in the same situation and I would probably do the same thing. Doesn't mean I have to like it.
I also don't like the big head Stoner has now got. People (including himeself) have already forgoten how many time he threw his bikes down the road in previous years.
Durring interviews Stoner obvioulsy believes (or wants people to believe) that he is the main reason for the success.
When there is talk of rule changes to make the machines more even (something everybody wants) stoner is against it. If stoner was a true champion he would want an even playing field, this would allow him to show how good of a rider he is.
IMO if your take the electronics away from stoner he would either have to slow down or throw the bike down the road more often (like previous years)
Joined May 2006
4K Posts | 2+
Mts-7
I don't see a standard ecu happening. Each bike has to use the electronics so differently, that everyone will have to start from scratch. Like that will happen$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
The only change I see on the horizon is a spec tire, or even a treaded tire (sorta like F1).
The only change I see on the horizon is a spec tire, or even a treaded tire (sorta like F1).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Traverser @ Dec 23 2007, 02:15 PM) [snapback]105083[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I don't see a standard ecu happening. Each bike has to use the electronics so differently, that everyone will have to start from scratch. Like that will happen$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
The only change I see on the horizon is a spec tire, or even a treaded tire (sorta like F1).
I disagree on the concept of treaded tire. I seriously doubt that MotoGP will introduce anything that will reduce grip.
If was brought in for F1 cause of the massive contact patch the drivers have with the road, compared the the credit card size patch in motogp.
I see a ban on TC more likely (as in F1).
I don't see a standard ecu happening. Each bike has to use the electronics so differently, that everyone will have to start from scratch. Like that will happen$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
The only change I see on the horizon is a spec tire, or even a treaded tire (sorta like F1).
I disagree on the concept of treaded tire. I seriously doubt that MotoGP will introduce anything that will reduce grip.
If was brought in for F1 cause of the massive contact patch the drivers have with the road, compared the the credit card size patch in motogp.
I see a ban on TC more likely (as in F1).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny.Hain @ Dec 23 2007, 08:19 AM) [snapback]105087[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I disagree on the concept of treaded tire. I seriously doubt that MotoGP will introduce anything that will reduce grip.
If was brought in for F1 cause of the massive contact patch the drivers have with the road, compared the the credit card size patch in motogp.
I see a ban on TC more likely (as in F1).
Banning tc will make little difference to F1, but would be a good idea if technically feasible for motogp. I hardly think it is a good idea in general to follow F1 as far as technical regulations are concerned; they have fairly completely stuffed their sport, and all in the interests of saving money (which they haven't done up to now) and closer competition etc, the sort of things mr epzeleta is starting to spout on about now.
I disagree on the concept of treaded tire. I seriously doubt that MotoGP will introduce anything that will reduce grip.
If was brought in for F1 cause of the massive contact patch the drivers have with the road, compared the the credit card size patch in motogp.
I see a ban on TC more likely (as in F1).
Banning tc will make little difference to F1, but would be a good idea if technically feasible for motogp. I hardly think it is a good idea in general to follow F1 as far as technical regulations are concerned; they have fairly completely stuffed their sport, and all in the interests of saving money (which they haven't done up to now) and closer competition etc, the sort of things mr epzeleta is starting to spout on about now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xx CURVE xx @ Dec 20 2007, 02:55 PM) [snapback]104898[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
get the .... over it lady....Rossi isn't the ONLY rider that thinks that way...many if not most find the bikes "EASY" to ride...
I like it.....NOW, if we can only figure out a way to get the 990s back.
+1
get the .... over it lady....Rossi isn't the ONLY rider that thinks that way...many if not most find the bikes "EASY" to ride...
I like it.....NOW, if we can only figure out a way to get the 990s back.
+1
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny.Hain @ Dec 23 2007, 01:47 AM) [snapback]105082[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Mick Doohn is the greatest ever (glad we aggree) Although i believe Rossi is a better rider in terms of skill, no one has ever shown the guts and determination of Mick Doohan.
I also don't like the big head Stoner has now got. People (including himeself) have already forgoten how many time he threw his bikes down the road in previous years.
Durring interviews Stoner obvioulsy believes (or wants people to believe) that he is the main reason for the success.
When there is talk of rule changes to make the machines more even (something everybody wants) stoner is against it. If stoner was a true champion he would want an even playing field, this would allow him to show how good of a rider he is.
IMO if your take the electronics away from stoner he would either have to slow down or throw the bike down the road more often (like previous years)
I agree with your assessment of doohan v rossi, doohan had more killer instinct, rossi has more skill, it is difficult to know who would have prevailed when both were in their prime. One of the reasons I am a stoner fan is that he is the best chance of stopping rossi from beating doohan's premier class record, although I gratefully acknowledge n. hayden's efforts last year. If valentino wins in 2008, I will gracefully concede defeat.
I think you are being a little hard on casey. Whilst I acknowledge that stoner partisans have gone over the top in the latter part of 2007 (better than rossi, an all time great etc etc - he needs a few more championships fellas), as stoner it must be fairly frustrating to achieve your life's ambition at 21 after one of the most dominant seasons ever and to have large numbers of people say that you deserve little or no credit. It should be remembered he rolled the dice in a death or glory bid this year, shook the dust from his feet as far as honda and michelin were concerned, and would likely have been looking at lesser formulae for 2008 if he had not got on at ducati, and I don't think he could have in anyway forseen that ducati would be so good for him. I am happy to mix metaphors in his support.
I am also not aware of any previous champions including valentino rossi and mick doohan proclaiming that they did not deserve their championships because their bikes were so dominant, even though both mick and vale were undoubtedly on dominant bikes for at least some of their championships. I also don't recall much clamour for the rules to be changed to bring them back to the field, and if there was any it certainly was not led by mick or vale.
Casey could do with more of a sense of humour though
.
Mick Doohn is the greatest ever (glad we aggree) Although i believe Rossi is a better rider in terms of skill, no one has ever shown the guts and determination of Mick Doohan.
I also don't like the big head Stoner has now got. People (including himeself) have already forgoten how many time he threw his bikes down the road in previous years.
Durring interviews Stoner obvioulsy believes (or wants people to believe) that he is the main reason for the success.
When there is talk of rule changes to make the machines more even (something everybody wants) stoner is against it. If stoner was a true champion he would want an even playing field, this would allow him to show how good of a rider he is.
IMO if your take the electronics away from stoner he would either have to slow down or throw the bike down the road more often (like previous years)
I agree with your assessment of doohan v rossi, doohan had more killer instinct, rossi has more skill, it is difficult to know who would have prevailed when both were in their prime. One of the reasons I am a stoner fan is that he is the best chance of stopping rossi from beating doohan's premier class record, although I gratefully acknowledge n. hayden's efforts last year. If valentino wins in 2008, I will gracefully concede defeat.
I think you are being a little hard on casey. Whilst I acknowledge that stoner partisans have gone over the top in the latter part of 2007 (better than rossi, an all time great etc etc - he needs a few more championships fellas), as stoner it must be fairly frustrating to achieve your life's ambition at 21 after one of the most dominant seasons ever and to have large numbers of people say that you deserve little or no credit. It should be remembered he rolled the dice in a death or glory bid this year, shook the dust from his feet as far as honda and michelin were concerned, and would likely have been looking at lesser formulae for 2008 if he had not got on at ducati, and I don't think he could have in anyway forseen that ducati would be so good for him. I am happy to mix metaphors in his support.
I am also not aware of any previous champions including valentino rossi and mick doohan proclaiming that they did not deserve their championships because their bikes were so dominant, even though both mick and vale were undoubtedly on dominant bikes for at least some of their championships. I also don't recall much clamour for the rules to be changed to bring them back to the field, and if there was any it certainly was not led by mick or vale.
Casey could do with more of a sense of humour though
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Dec 23 2007, 01:58 PM) [snapback]105095[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
One of the reasons I am a stoner fan is that he is the best chance of stopping rossi from beating doohan's premier class record,
That's a pretty petty reason to support a rider.
One of the reasons I am a stoner fan is that he is the best chance of stopping rossi from beating doohan's premier class record,
That's a pretty petty reason to support a rider.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phleg @ Dec 23 2007, 02:18 PM) [snapback]105096[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
That's a pretty petty reason to support a rider.
I was not being entirely serious, but I was and am a huge mick doohan fan, and I can't say even to myself that he is as good as rossi if rossi wins a 6th championship. There may be people who are completely non-partisan as sports fans; I don't claim to be one of them although I do try to be at least a bit fair minded. The whole business of being a sports fan doesn't bear close examination on philosophical or logical grounds if you really want to be bloody-minded, but if we enjoy it what the hell?
I actually would be fairly happy for rossi to win next year, particularly if stoner is not in the hunt. It will be a great achievement if he does, as I am pretty sure there will be at least two bikes which are intrinsically superior to the yamaha.
That's a pretty petty reason to support a rider.
I was not being entirely serious, but I was and am a huge mick doohan fan, and I can't say even to myself that he is as good as rossi if rossi wins a 6th championship. There may be people who are completely non-partisan as sports fans; I don't claim to be one of them although I do try to be at least a bit fair minded. The whole business of being a sports fan doesn't bear close examination on philosophical or logical grounds if you really want to be bloody-minded, but if we enjoy it what the hell?
I actually would be fairly happy for rossi to win next year, particularly if stoner is not in the hunt. It will be a great achievement if he does, as I am pretty sure there will be at least two bikes which are intrinsically superior to the yamaha.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny.Hain @ Dec 23 2007, 01:47 AM) [snapback]105082[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
IMO if your take the electronics away from stoner he would either have to slow down or throw the bike down the road more often (like previous years)
I think Stoner is a good rider with or without electronics... his first season he had alot of crashes i accept that a rookie makes mistakes.
In 250 he was at least able to battle with Pedrosa who we don't doubt is Motogp level.
But electronics take away the unknown factor for me and only provide an excuse for whoever wins the races.
IMO if your take the electronics away from stoner he would either have to slow down or throw the bike down the road more often (like previous years)
I think Stoner is a good rider with or without electronics... his first season he had alot of crashes i accept that a rookie makes mistakes.
In 250 he was at least able to battle with Pedrosa who we don't doubt is Motogp level.
But electronics take away the unknown factor for me and only provide an excuse for whoever wins the races.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Dec 23 2007, 02:58 PM) [snapback]105095[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
.........................
I am also not aware of any previous champions including valentino rossi and mick doohan proclaiming that they did not deserve their championships because their bikes were so dominant, even though both mick and vale were undoubtedly on dominant bikes for at least some of their championships. I also don't recall much clamour for the rules to be changed to bring them back to the field, and if there was any it certainly was not led by mick or vale.
Casey could do with more of a sense of humour though
.
Spot on
.........................
I am also not aware of any previous champions including valentino rossi and mick doohan proclaiming that they did not deserve their championships because their bikes were so dominant, even though both mick and vale were undoubtedly on dominant bikes for at least some of their championships. I also don't recall much clamour for the rules to be changed to bring them back to the field, and if there was any it certainly was not led by mick or vale.
Casey could do with more of a sense of humour though
Spot on
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Dec 24 2007, 12:58 AM) [snapback]105095[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I agree with your assessment of doohan v rossi, doohan had more killer instinct, rossi has more skill, it is difficult to know who would have prevailed when both were in their prime. One of the reasons I am a stoner fan is that he is the best chance of stopping rossi from beating doohan's premier class record, although I gratefully acknowledge n. hayden's efforts last year. If valentino wins in 2008, I will gracefully concede defeat.
I think you are being a little hard on casey. Whilst I acknowledge that stoner partisans have gone over the top in the latter part of 2007 (better than rossi, an all time great etc etc - he needs a few more championships fellas), as stoner it must be fairly frustrating to achieve your life's ambition at 21 after one of the most dominant seasons ever and to have large numbers of people say that you deserve little or no credit. It should be remembered he rolled the dice in a death or glory bid this year, shook the dust from his feet as far as honda and michelin were concerned, and would likely have been looking at lesser formulae for 2008 if he had not got on at ducati, and I don't think he could have in anyway forseen that ducati would be so good for him. I am happy to mix metaphors in his support.
I am also not aware of any previous champions including valentino rossi and mick doohan proclaiming that they did not deserve their championships because their bikes were so dominant, even though both mick and vale were undoubtedly on dominant bikes for at least some of their championships. I also don't recall much clamour for the rules to be changed to bring them back to the field, and if there was any it certainly was not led by mick or vale.
Casey could do with more of a sense of humour though
.
I do agree that Rossi had a dominant bike in 2002 and 2003. The RC211V was all conquering. But I think he wanted to prove to everyone (and himself) that it wasn't just the bike that won the championships, Yamaha was struggling when Rossi crossed over and in 1 season he turned there fortunes around. This proved beyond all doubt how good Rossi was.
Now on the subject of Mick Doohan having a dominant bike. The Big Bang engine was a huge feat, however there were many other riders with that same engine. Also Doohan chose the screamer over the big bang and managed to tame it (no one else would volunteer for that). So I don't think that Doohan had a dominant bike.
I agree with your assessment of doohan v rossi, doohan had more killer instinct, rossi has more skill, it is difficult to know who would have prevailed when both were in their prime. One of the reasons I am a stoner fan is that he is the best chance of stopping rossi from beating doohan's premier class record, although I gratefully acknowledge n. hayden's efforts last year. If valentino wins in 2008, I will gracefully concede defeat.
I think you are being a little hard on casey. Whilst I acknowledge that stoner partisans have gone over the top in the latter part of 2007 (better than rossi, an all time great etc etc - he needs a few more championships fellas), as stoner it must be fairly frustrating to achieve your life's ambition at 21 after one of the most dominant seasons ever and to have large numbers of people say that you deserve little or no credit. It should be remembered he rolled the dice in a death or glory bid this year, shook the dust from his feet as far as honda and michelin were concerned, and would likely have been looking at lesser formulae for 2008 if he had not got on at ducati, and I don't think he could have in anyway forseen that ducati would be so good for him. I am happy to mix metaphors in his support.
I am also not aware of any previous champions including valentino rossi and mick doohan proclaiming that they did not deserve their championships because their bikes were so dominant, even though both mick and vale were undoubtedly on dominant bikes for at least some of their championships. I also don't recall much clamour for the rules to be changed to bring them back to the field, and if there was any it certainly was not led by mick or vale.
Casey could do with more of a sense of humour though
I do agree that Rossi had a dominant bike in 2002 and 2003. The RC211V was all conquering. But I think he wanted to prove to everyone (and himself) that it wasn't just the bike that won the championships, Yamaha was struggling when Rossi crossed over and in 1 season he turned there fortunes around. This proved beyond all doubt how good Rossi was.
Now on the subject of Mick Doohan having a dominant bike. The Big Bang engine was a huge feat, however there were many other riders with that same engine. Also Doohan chose the screamer over the big bang and managed to tame it (no one else would volunteer for that). So I don't think that Doohan had a dominant bike.
Does anyone agree that if electronic rider aids where removed, then riders lives could be in danger ?
I fear that F1 will make such a mistake this year.
I fear that F1 will make such a mistake this year.
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